don't speak for me, and assume the clues i have and don't have. have your passion and enjoy it. so you quoted me and my 'fantasy world' comment i am assuming you are refering to me. Right, RedBull is looking to sell a product and make money, yet metro with AEG with most concerned with you having fun and not worrying about a thing called profit. hmmm, fantasy world rings a bell. as for me not having a clue, like i said, i have been around since day one, i have no idea about you, maybe you have but i won't go and make assumptions like you are. oh, and you point gets across so much further by cursing. try using some control. [edited in] jeez, now i see you are a fellow mod, great show of control. say whatever you want but what other way could you call going to a redbulls game and cheering for a team that no longer exists by name (metro) and/or a name that never existed (MetroRed) not living in a fatansy world? passion as you put shouldn't dissapear but passion/tradition and fantasy/silliness are being blended here by some. Jason, are you are member of the ESC? if yes and even if not, what exactly are you supporting when you go to a New York RedBulls game?
It happened in DC for me on 4/2. Wearing Metro Gear and being surrounded by the same, I chanted "Let's Go Metros". Something changed when the game began and I saw the team, I found myself shouting "Let's Go Red Bulls". It just felt natural and the right thing to do...for me.
I agree, I LOVE it too... And the logo. 'MetroStars', while I thought it was ok was always just a conjured up name that had no 'feel' or meaning to it. Thankfully the league is moving towards disassociating it's image at least with the single entity concept, and allowing the clubs to take on a sense of individuality, which in turn will create the rivalries, passions and even hatred that couldn't be manufactured in MLS' Corporate Board rooms. RED BULL F.C. of New York
I originaly posted this on the related thread in response to Dr. K and then he mooved the post I was responding to. BING BING BING Point to Doctor K. It is indeed bad form to call out the name of another when making love. And it is none the less bad form to say that it is the name of a former lover or nickname for a memory. As someone who's family never accepted the move west, I have spent the past 45 years roting for a baseball team that ceased to exist two years before I was born. I have gone to Shea on all too many occassions wearing a black cap with an orange NY on it not to feel a sympathy and kinship with the Metro diehards here. However the team on the field, the team I cared about was wearing a different hat than mine. When I took my kids to Frisco a few years ago and became the first member of my family to attend a home game for our team since the fall of 57 I realized what I had been doing. I bought a SF cap and a SF sweatshirt and continue to cheer. But now I cheer for the team that is really there not the team that existed in my mind. No one says we have to forget Metro, you never forget a true love. But the name has changed and the identity of the team has changed. The jersey transfer ceremony prior to the game Saturday was a beautiful way of handling the change. We are in the position of a widow or widower who has met someone new.The old spouse is still loved and remembered but the new spouse is honored and loved in his/her own way. It will take a while until saying/singing/chanting Red Bull is natural but they are my team.
I am a new fan of the club, beginning this season. I have always watched MLS but I never really cared for one team more than another. It was probably because I never wanted to just jump on a bandwagon of a team that was doing well. Then Red Bull came in and bought the Metrostars, changed the name, and I took it as an oppurtunity to embrace one team instead of a league. Ever since the takeover I have seen myself obsessed with RBNY, looking at information whenever I have free time. Now, I can see where the life long Metro fans will feel a little hasty to drop the Metro name, but there is nothing wrong with that. The team is still the Metrostars, no matter what you do to try and change that to Red Bull, there will still be the Metrostars in the inside. I like how we have passed the jerseys along as if its a new era and in some respects that is all it is, a new era. So, I feel that both names are ok to use, but we still need to realize this teams name is Red Bull and that is not going away too soon. However, I am not going to call out those who refuse to call the team by their new name because that is their choice, and while some fans cheer "Go Red Bulls" and others "Go Metros" we will all be cheering for the same cause, that the team on the field does their best to win the game.
Bears repeating. There are some who are willing to forgive the previous corporate name because they weren't familiar with the product being promoted beforehand. Now they decry a corporate name, but only because they've heard of the product this time. Corporate names are corporate names. I just don't understand how some people are willing to forgive one, but complain vociferously about the other.
Michael K., you're a mod on the Red Bulls forum, yet you refuse to support the Red Bulls, and instead promote the "Metro Reds Initiative." I'm the mod on the board of the MLS team I support, that's all. You may be taking it a lot, lot, lot more seriously than I do. Want it? You can have it. How is that not a conflict? Please note: I'm not asking you to go away, but I'm asking you to see things from the other perspective. You've no problem disrespecting those you disagree with, but you should try to understand why others don't respect your opinion on this. I've taken pains not to disrespect anyone's thoughts here. Now I may have gotten a little testy with people telling me to "shut up" or who repeatedly fail to understand the issues some of us have problems with and misrepresent some things being said, but I'm not telling anyone to toe any lines and not call it Red Bull, if that's what they want. If anything, I'm aware that those of us who think that way are probably in the minority. That's fine. But we Metro people still have a significant presence, as we ought to. I'm not the one trying to convert anyone to my side by suppressing them. But I'll attack what I think are false premises and bad assumptions, and I'll lay out and defend my side passionately. I have the right to do that. We all do. Here's a key quote from the link in your sig: "And face it, it's much saner to scream "Let's go Metro", "Let's go Reds", or "Let's go Metro Reds" that it is "Let's go Red Bull"." [sic] I didn't write it. But I happen to believe it wholeheartedly. That's, uh, why I call them Metro/Metro Reds/Reds, after all. I fail to see how it is more sane ("much saner"?) to cheer a name that you've just invented and has no basis in reality than it is to cheer the proper name of the team. Consider how Red Bull has become the "proper name" of the team. Someone with a lot of money came in and said " I know the name was this for ten years, but now I want it to be that." How is that any less "invented"? It simply isn't - you're just giving primacy to the guy who wrote the check. I think that's wrong; who the hell is he, besides a guy with a lot of money and an agenda of his own? We fans who have been here all this time will be here long after Red Bull is gone from MLS. We keep this team and its history - that's my opinion. Financial might does make right on the ownership agreements, tax forms, the standings in the sports pages and so on, but as a fan who followed this team for 10 years before Red Bull had even heard of MLS, I didn't agree to what they did, and so I don't find their "invented" name any more legitimate for my use than one we fans come up with collectively (because it is our only real option.) Considering how incredibly little of MLS clubs' structures are collective and participatory in the ways that "traditional" soccer culture in other parts of the world are, seeing a group of fans come together like this to unleash some creativity is actually kind of exciting! Now if it was only me calling them Metro/Metro Reds/Reds, then I would obviously just be a deluded voice in the wilderness. But it's not just me - it's a number of fans, who have a variety of reasons for feeling this way. Why are people who are cool with "Red Bull" so damn threatened? Maybe because when there are a number of fans committed to using ANY symbol - Metros, Reds, Platypi, whatever - it isn't really "fantasy world" after all. Yet I still fail to see why it should bother you, if it's not your thing. There never has been and never will be a "Metro Reds," so why are you encouraging others to embrace that name rather than the Red Bulls? Its this attitude of superiority among the Metro Reds crowd that I find difficult to tolerate. Irony rears its hilarious head. So okay, Michael K. you didn't take advantage of the bus trip to DC. Fair enough. You say you wouldn't "out of principle," but are you really arguing that those who did so aren't being hypocritical? What about the Metro supporters who were looking forward to the first bus trip to DC all winter long - the chance to see old friends, to enjoy the game and the whole experience - and then all of a sudden get told "it's all free now, but you've gotta be onboard with Red Bull, or else you're a hy-po-crite." And they aren't onboard with it. What are they supposed to do in that case? Giving RB their money anyway while taking the bus might be some sort of extreme "I'm no hypocrite" act, but I don't know of any one in the real world who would do such a thing. Plenty of supporters are following your lead. You're championing the notion that others should refuse to cheer the Red Bulls, and claiming rational and ethical grounds for your stance. Er, no. I'm championing the notion that I'm going to call them Metro/Metro Reds/Reds (whichever I feel like), "and here's why...." That's all. If you refuse to say the team's proper name, and instead you cheer for a "compromised" name, then your support for the team is compromised. This is complete garbage. You were saying something about moral superiority? As Brownswan said, this argument is over the question of character, and since the Metro Reds crowd think they have the moral/rational/emotional high ground, we in the Red Bulls crowd have every right to answer back and call things as we see them. We're not being hypocrites and we're not delusional about this team's identity. You're the one's playing the "morally inferior" and "deluded" cards. You're the one passing judgment. I will say this; I think people who jumped right on Red Bulls, not because they think "it's a really cool name" (which I think is silly, but hey, different strokes) but, just because "oh, it's the name now, Dietrich said so", those people are in short, easily led. But that's a bit less damning than that "moral superiority" tag you're throwing around.
Welcome, and I think you've got it totally right here. It's a flippin' soccer team after all - we can argue our sides either way, but people are gonna call it what they want in the end, and what's wrong with that?
From my experience at the opener it seems pretty solid that the name change went smoothly. When I first heard about it it seemed a little strange. It's a little sad to see the Metrostars go, but honestly I never really liked the name (honestly a lot of MLS names, especially the original ones were kinda clunky) and from a perspective that is a little more casual than some of the people here the Metros never amounted to much. I don't really like the idea of a team named after a corporate sponsor, but it seems like if Red Bull can take the Metros to anywhere near where Red Bull Salzburg is currently then I'm all for it. Especially since it could be big for the league as a whole. The only time I heard Metro during the game was when the announcer made a mistake. The Red Bull deal has some excitement (energy?) to it, and that helps people get excited for Red Bull - regardless of their main product. Now, when Chelsea changes their name to the Samsung Mobiles I'll have a problem.
I was among the first to buy season tickets for the Metrostars when they started taking orders in '95. I wrote letters to USA Today and Soccer America that were published, enthusing about the new league (before I even had an internet connection), and I even got a call from Eddie Firmani about a letter that was published. I never cared for the MetroStars name from the start, but I accepted it, and compensated by calling the team Metro. After ten years -- after posting suggestons that the team take a break and reopen in Harrison as Garden State FC or even move to Philly and just get out of our lives -- I can accept the new name and our first real owner without reservation. I can understand if someone decides to call them the Reds. I think Franz Beckenbauer gave his stamp of approval to that, if one is even needed. Whatever -- I can remember the past, and reflect on it, but I live now, and the name is now NY Red Bulls. It's even the kind of "real American" name so many on these boards cry for: city, then the name in plural.
I got into MLS last year and never really attached myself to a team. Heading into this season, Red Bull's purchase of the Metrostars piqued my attention and I figured that if the company was willing to get behind MLS and this team, then I should, too. I fully embrace it and I think that Red Bull as a corporate entity are trying to reach out to the soccer fans in the US. I'm all for it and I'm going to wear a RBNY jersey with pride.
I think the pro-name change crowd needs to give everyone else a little more than a month to get over it. We all support the same team if you call them Red Bull, Metro, or shit like I have for most of the years. Quit worrying about everyone else.
Yes, I am the same guy. However, once I saw that Red Bull had learned from their experiences in Salzburg -- they kept the team history and management and staff and went out of their way to be accommodating to the fans -- it convinced me to give them a try. I can honestly say now that Red Bull is the best thing to ever happen to our club and right now it only looks like things are going to get better too. If I can come around to embracing the changes for our club, anyone can.
I don't post very much in this neck of the woods, but here's my take (for what it's worth). I'm embracing the new name because: 1) I was never a big fan of the old name, 2) the old name represents 10 years of mediocre to bad teams, and 3) the new ownership has already shown more interest in doing something positive and exciting with this team.
At first I was totally against the Name Change, but now, with everything RED BULL has done, I have embraced everything about this team. I feel that RED BULL will help this team be better than it's ever been.
Newton's 3rd Law. More sane? More principled? More loyal? These are the arguments I hear from those promoting the Metro Reds name. Your inability to call the team by its proper name doesn't make you a better fan than me. It would be great if MLS had supporter's trusts. We don't. So spare me the "we" bit. Who among the fans decided that "we" should be "Metro Reds" and not the NY Red Bulls? Missed that vote. Who should I listen to in terms of what to call the team, some guy who runs a fansite or the guy that forked over $100 million and counting (oh yeah, and the players, coaches, staff, league, etc.)? If you want to go by a majority of people in the stadium last Saturday as an indicator, Red Bull wins. Just as the team itself has taken a mature attitude and adapted quickly to the change, so should we, if we truly intend to support them. When they take the pitch tonight in Salt Lake, they'll do so as the NY Red Bulls. The Metro Reds are a small but vocal group of (hardcore) fans. My hope is the Metro Reds continue to support the Red Bulls with the same level of intensity and enthusiasm as they supported the MetroStars. And next week against the Scum, all of us who love this team must come together and sing with pride, "Come on you Reds!"
I think that things will change drastically if the Red Bulls can start a winning tradition in NY soccer. If Red Bull does what it promises and truly invests in this team - and I mean player investments that can make us a dangerous opponent game in and game out - and if RB shows the supreme attention to the fans of this club that they deserve - then and only then will past bitterness be forgotten. To me, the Metrostars have not died - they have evolved as has this league. Red Bull presents an opportunity for this club - now they have to make good on it. If the Red Bulls win MLS Cup or the Open Cup, wouldn't that dismiss any fears or doubts over the new identity? I can think of a lot worse companies that could own this team. I am trying to be positive about the situation and support the club for better or worse and just plain old cheer them on. Maybe those with doubts about the name just need to give it a little more time to grow.
That's pretty much exactly what "those fans" have been saying for weeks. Nice to see you're finally grasping it.
It would be great if MLS had supporter's trusts. We don't. Of course "we" don't have any structural input like that. "We" don't have any control over creating such things. But there's nothing to stop us from taking a little control of the symbols we use. So spare me the "we" bit. Who among the fans decided that "we" should be "Metro Reds" and not the NY Red Bulls? Missed that vote. This isn't a thing of votes - it's a collective, ongoing process. "Metro Reds" came up right at the beginning, as a flexible alternative which nicely bridged the past and the current, and gained enough traction to stick among those who cared. But it was an open process then and is now, so if you've got better alternative names, throw them out there. Maybe they stick, maybe they don't. In that sense the "vote" is always open to you. Who should I listen to in terms of what to call the team, some guy who runs a fansite or the guy that forked over $100 million and counting (oh yeah, and the players, coaches, staff, league, etc.)? "The guy who runs a fansite" is, in reality, representative of a group of fans who have been the heart and soul of Metro support for 10 years now. The real history of the team, good and bad, is to be found on that site - much more so than the official site. The real experience of following Metro is possessed by those who were there - you and me and everyone else who's been around for a spell. But it's not just "nice history," to be left alone as we "move on" as some have said, but something continuous; from 1996 up until our game tonight, it's all part of the very same tableaux. That understanding is what we have, and it is something Mateschitz can't touch with all the money in the world. So, I say we own that, and can call it what we want. If you want to go by a majority of people in the stadium last Saturday as an indicator, Red Bull wins. Anyone with a brain knows this will always be the case. It doesn't matter in the least. The objective isn't to get the whole stadium to never call them Red Bulls, it's to find a way that allows some of us to continue to support the team passionately. Just as the team itself has taken a mature attitude and adapted quickly to the change, so should we, if we truly intend to support them. A mature attitude? What choice do the players have? Here's a news flash - players play for their jobs, and rarely worry about issues like this. Why should they? They're not "bleeding for the shirt." They might sympathize a little, but they don't care about stuff like this. 90% of them are mercenaries - our mercenaries - but mercenaries who don't get too attached, because they know their lot is to be shifted hither and yon, all the same.
Reds. I suggested that at day one of the metamorphosis. And ESC might want to consider rebranding to MSC so the supporters can still sing "We are the Metro."
Personally, I think that's more than fine. I'll be using it myself, at least some of the time. Then again, there are people out there who weren't keen on it because they think it reminds them too much of Liverpool or Cincinnati (seems a bit silly to me, but whatever), or because they associate it with communism, and so on. Others simply are never going to stop calling the team "Metro." As was said before, don't think of "Metro Red" as the name per se, but a concept, an umbrella that keeps as many as possible feeling connected to the team on the field.