Historical results and Elo ratings

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Metropolitan, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I've been working for a while on a website about international football games that might interest some of you. We can:
    • Browse Elo ratings at any given date, make comparison between dates, filter results by confederation.
    • Get historical stats on all national teams, with their matches played, honours, Elo ratings graphics and demographics.
    • Get historical results for all competitions, with statistics on games played, goals scored, records and Elo ratings of top 4 finishers.
    Here is the website:
    http://www.international-football.net/

    I know many people in here likes learning and discovering things about international football History, so I hope you will enjoy.

    The matches database source is Eloratings.net. I've added other data from Wikipedia to explore the results in their context.

    There are many things that could still be developped, so don't hesitate to give me some feedback, I would be pleased!
     
    lanman, Rickdog, bigsoccertst1 and 4 others repped this.
  2. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Nice site, top job @Metropolitan
    Quick question: where do you get the attack and defence scores from (e.g. Brazil's attack = 95 / defence = 94)?
     
  3. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Those are experimental. They are based in crossing Elo ratings with goals scored and goals conceded during the last 40 games of each team, the weight gradually decreasing from the most recent to the oldest game.

    The general idea is that you get a better attack in scoring goals to teams having a high Elo rating and a better defence in not conceding goals to teams having a low Elo rating.
     
    Blondo repped this.
  4. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Thanks.

    One suggestion, it's only a cosmetic one: in the background of Belgium's pages you've used our 2012 kit which is now a bit outdated (personally I don't mind it though). Anyway here's the 2018 kit:

     
  5. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    #5 Blondo, Jan 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
    Fooling around a bit on your site @Metropolitan ... another suggestion: didn't see a way to compare teams by attack or defence score. It would be nice to sort the teams going to Russia according to those ratings. Also you can't sort e.g. the stats from Competitions>Global>World Cup (for example to rank them from highest to lowest average goals).

    Edit: http://www.international-football.net/competition-overview?compet-id=World Cup

    I see you used the Elo ratings at the end of the World Cup. Maybe helping the WC winners to the highest rating (which they might not have had before the World Cup. You could add both (and give the gold/silver/bronze banner to the team who was respectively1st/2nd/3rd ahead of that WC)
     
    Metropolitan repped this.
  6. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    #6 Metropolitan, Jan 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
    Sure why not. It would be a good way to check if they are accurate or not. The thing is that I would need first to optimize the script in order to do so, otherwise the page will be really long to load. I'll try to do that later.

    Good idea! I've just done it. The table in the "statistics" thumb is now sortable:
    http://www.international-football.net/competition-overview?compet-id=World Cup

    I've added buttons to switch between Elo ratings before and after the competition, what do you think?
    http://www.international-football.net/competition-overview?compet-id=World Cup

    Yes, the difficulty is to find full HD resolution images of national team kits. If it's too small it gets pixelized and it's quite ugly. But I'm aware of that. I've planned to change team kits for at least the 32 teams qualified for the 2018 world cup.

    Thanks a lot Blondo for your feedback. If you have other idea, don't hesitate to share them here. :)
     
  7. Nani_17

    Nani_17 Member+

    Nov 3, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Amazing job. Great layout, easy to navigate and very professional. Nice work.
     
    Metropolitan repped this.
  8. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The table lists 238 teams, which is 27 teams more than the 211 teams in the FIFA Rankings. The unaffiliated section has 20 teams. How do you account for the other 7 teams?

    The Countries tab displays the countries in each confederation. In addition, moving your mouse over it makes the bottom of the screen display a URL for the confederation that clicking on it should take you to. However, clicking on the confederation takes you to the ELO ratings for all countries.

    Can you make a table for each World Cup with the ELO change for each team combining every game the team played? I'd be interested in seeing how rankings that treat all teams equally (Wikipedia has the rankings FIFA made for each World Cup) compare to ELO changes that expect more from the best teams. Then make a table with top ten or more biggest increases and biggest decreases from any one World Cup. That way we could take things like Costa Rica reaching the World Cup 2014 Quarterfinals and rank the most surprising successes and failures.

    Based on the "Search results," there have been 42,704 games.
     
    Metropolitan repped this.
  9. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    The 7 remaining teams are full members of a continental confederation without being members of FIFA. There are 6 in CONCACAF and 1 in CAF. Those are:
    - Bonaire and Sint Maarten (both parts of the Netherlands)
    - French Guiana, Guadeloupe, Martinique and Saint Martin (parts of France)
    - Zanzibar (part of Tanzania)

    Good point. I've corrected that.

    Very good idea, I'll do something like when I'll have a bit more time.
     
    EvanJ repped this.
  10. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can you put a note on the CONCACAF and CAF pages stating which ones aren't members of FIFA?
     
  11. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Again, your site looks good. I'm happy to give some feedback yet no worries if you discard suggestions (take on board those that you yourself like/feel will actually make it better). I'll try to be as helpful as I can with suggestions but it would be easier if you add a few more words about what you're aiming at, i.e. what's the big idea behind your site (= elevator pitch)?, Who do you like to attract to the site?, ...

    First time I landed on the page I could see both before/after ratings which made it quite easy to compare :thumbsup: (maybe looked a bit crowded but you could add a bit of white breathing space). Once I clicked before button I couldn't go back to having both ratings below each other.

    Elo before-rankings might have a few mistakes, e.g. in 1950 both Brazil and Sweden are ranked 4th, in 2014 samilar for Holland and Argentina, in 1994 Brazil and Italy, ...
     
  12. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    I liked the website. I would suggest:

    1- adding the historical average ratings, highest ratings for each team, etc as covered in the Wikipedia page on ELO.
    2- perhaps, if it is possible without too much hassle, developing a feature to compare ELO rankings in different period between different teams.

    I will try to look at the website a bit more, but I really felt it was rather accessible and looked good.
     
  13. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Of course I could do that simply in adding a note for the 7 selected countries, but it shouldn't be that difficult to make it more dynamically.

    For a weird reason, I made it possible to list national teams in each confederation at any given date in History. Here's for instance the situation by 1960:
    http://www.international-football.net/countries?year=1960

    The website was first a personal project to improve my skills in web development, but then I thought this may interest people and that's why I shared it here. You're right though that I would need to explain better the purpose of the website better if I would really like to attract visitors.

    That was a problem with cache, you weren't supposed to see both as indeed information would get a bit too crowded. It won't happen anymore. However, I'm thinking about a new page to make comparisons easier. I will come back here once done.

    That comes from the fact last match dates aren't the same. Brazil was indeed 4th after beating Uruguay on May 18th of 1950, then Sweden grabbed the 4th place after beating the Netherlands on June 8th.

    It's not really possible to recalculate the ranking for every single editions. However, this could be done in the new page I'm thinking about. We could there compare Elo ratings for every team participating to every edition of a tournament from their inital position to their final position.

    Yes, getting average ratings for a given period of time could be nice. I'll think about it.

    I'm not sure if I've understood well but you can already compare Elo between two dates. Here is the ranking evolution from 2008 to 2018:
    http://www.international-football.n...fed=&prev-year=2008&prev-month=01&prev-day=24
     
    Blondo repped this.
  14. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Thanks everyone for your feedback. I didn't have much time to work on the website recently but I've still added some little things. We now have access to the 8 major competitions directly from the top menu.

    Furthermore I've redone the script for the page showing historical Elo ratings and demographics. They load a lot faster now:
     
  15. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    In terms of highest average ratings historically by ELO, this is how the 32 teams in Russia would look. Their historic average rating (since 1970) is in the first parenthesis -- while their current ELO rank is in the 2nd parenthesis. The results show overall consistency in their rankings, although a few are either considerably (more than 10 spots) below or above their historic average right now. (Often, those involve teams whose historic record include results from predecessor states - e.g., Russia/Soviet Union, or Serbia/Yugoslavia -- which have broken into parts). In any case, those teams whose historic ranking is considerably lower than their current rank are highlighted in blue and those whose rankings are considerably higher are highlighted in red.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Football_Elo_Ratings

    ................(historic ranking)(current rank)
    1- Brazil (1) (1)
    2- Germany (2) (2)
    3- England (4) (7)
    4- Spain (6) (3)
    5- Argentina (7) (6)
    6- France (8) (5)
    7- Russia (9) (43)
    8- Portugal (11) (4)

    9- Serbia (12) (23)
    10-Sweden (13) (20)
    11- Mexico (14) (17)
    12- Uruguay (16) (13)
    13- Belgium (17) (8)
    14- Poland (18) (18)
    15- Denmark (19) (19)
    16- Switzerland (25) (13)

    17- Colombia (27) (9)

    18- Australia (29) (35)
    19- South Korea (32) (25)
    20- Iran (33) (22)
    21- Peru (35) (12)

    22- Nigeria (36) (44)
    23- Egypt (37) (50)*
    24- Morocco (42) (45)

    25- Costa Rica (45) (31)
    26- Japan (48) (41)
    27- Tunisia (49) (53)
    28- Croatia (NR - part of Yugoslavia in the past) (16)
    29- Iceland (NR- below top 50)(21)
    30- Senegal (NR- below top 50)(27)
    31- Panama (NR- below top 50)(48)

    32- Saudi Arabia - (NR- below top 50)(67)
     
    Metropolitan repped this.
  16. Hariike5

    Hariike5 New Member

    May 31, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    ELO ranking is very misleading, South Korea at 27! Strange
    Everyone knows in Asia that they are not in good shape for almost two years.
     
  17. Metropolitan

    Metropolitan Member

    Paris Saint Germain
    France
    Sep 5, 2005
    Paris
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
  18. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    @Metropolitan have you seen something similar to Eloratings.net for FIFA's new ranking method? Would you consider adding FIFA's new ratings to your site or even switching from Elo to FIFA's ranking? The country pages are quite handy (for example http://eloratings.net/France). It would be nice if you could look up how a team fared on FIFA's ranking over time, how points exchanged hands. AFAIK you'd have the first site where someone can browse FIFA ratings at any given date, make comparison between dates, get FIFA ratings graphics, and so on (if you make the switch to FIFA's new method).

    4 June 2018 was the deadline for the June ranking (games before 5 June were counted according to the old method). Since that day the new method is in use. For Belgium it wasn't that hard to calculate and I could rather quickly put this together:

    Still I didn't make a graph (= a better visualization compared to simply showing the numbers) and I can't compare it to other countries. That's a handy feature (in case you include FIFA ratings on your site). For example, in a graph we could see how all the World Cup participants did or see the highest ranked countries overtake each other for the No.1 spot. It will be close but I guess France overtook Belgium for first place on FIFA's ranking after their game in the semis (by +/- 2 points). Belgium then regained the top spot after the 3rd place final. And finally France took a slightly bigger lead than before, as beating Croatia to the title was worth more points than Belgium won in the 3rd place game, so France are now ahead by 3 points.

    Maybe you already have the FIFA ratings data. If not, on bigsoccer (and on other platforms) there are those that will have it and keep it up-to-date. Would be lovely if this data was easily accessible, perhaps on your site. Just a suggestion but please tell me if you won't include the FIFA ratings (then I know I have to keep looking/waiting for such a source).


    PS is it possible to use other graphs? If I wanted to look at how the 5 highest ranked countries did in Russia it looks a bit odd. I can't enter a more precise date, other than 2018, and the lines are a bit jerky plus stop at the final game. If I enter an end-date it ignores the start-date and I get the entire history for the teams involved.

    http://www.international-football.n...zil&team[]=France&team[]=Germany&team[]=Spain

    http://www.international-football.n...many&team[]=Spain&datemin=&datemax=2018-12-31
     

Share This Page