High School Refereeing

Let me see... an AD of a high school in NC. I wonder if he has a pointy ended head or if he has a round head. I bet 99% of those guys are pointy, it's like that in all states anyway, but NC even more so.

I wonder if he would like you to throw a yellow hankie on the pitch when you award advantage so when advantage is lost, you return to the foul.

 

Probably should have said "prompted by" instead of "response to," but now we're debating semantics. Suffice to say, Yellowshirt demonstrated a lack of tact to me, but I won't go so far as to call him tactless, as I do not know him well enough to make that judgment. I still stand by my statement that tact is a good skill for referees to possess, whether you feel I have that skill or not. I appreciate your feedback, though.

 

I do have one question. We seem to beat up on NFHS a lot but I rarely see NISOA mentioned for their own bastardization of the sport. Why is that? I mean seriously, these are the guys that introduced a Time Out to the sport!! Are you freakin' kidding me, a 5 minute break somewhere between the 20 and 25 minute?? Add to that, a scoreboard clock, substitution horns, and a host of other modifications.

I'd love to see a grassroots movement of referees organize to try and get FIFA laws at both the HS and College level. I don't know if something like that would be successful, but it sure would be nice to see a more active voice bringing attention to it.

 

LOL funny!
If this does come to pass, and it doesn't sound too far out of the NHFS realm of possibility, we can remember where we saw it first.

This truly is the problem isn't it, that the pointyball guys want to have a complicated "rulebook" just like their sport?

 

Since my daughter has started playing HS soccer this fall, I have been attending her games...at the very first scrimmage I attended the lead ref in the dual system actually used the american football signal for offside! I was amazed, and since it was the very first HS game I had ever watched, I came right home at the end of the match to scour the rule books to see if that signal had crept into play....also, same match, my daughter, who knows the rules, was flabbergasted to hear the referee tell her that she has to ask for the ten yards on a free! The other team had set up the wall about 5-6 yards away, and they weren't moving and he wasn't moving them back. WElcome to HS soccer!

R

 

If your daughter was flabbergasted then maybe she doesn't know the rules/laws quite as well and y'all think...the defense is supposed to back up to ten but the kicker can take a "quick restart" whenever he or she wants...a "ceremonial restart" occurs when the kicker asks for ten and the ref sets the wall after telling the kicker (and everybody else by pointing to the whistle) to wait for the whistle before taking the free kick.

That's a simple (and in all honesty kind of incomplete) answer to a complex situation that's full of if/then situations.

Yes HS rules include all sorts of signals that are supposed to be given by the ref...I don't do this myself and it's my own conscientious objector behavior to some of the NFHS rules...like my Italian-style USSF socks that I wear for HS matches. I show my dislike for the HS style of match management in little, fairly insignificant ways.

 

Wow I go away for a day and all kinds of things

I tend to write tersely. No offense meant to anyone

"End of Discussion" was meant to end the discussion on how many questions there were on the exam regarding Law 4 and how many of them were mundane....it can clearly be seen from the questions.

RefJoe stated he had not seen the questions...so there they are posted...The End.

The exam does in fact have more questions on Law 4 than Law 12 and the majority of the questions on Law 4 deal with size of numbers and other such administrative things that have nothing to do with the safety of the players.

End of that Discussion

We just had our HS meeting tonite to go over the annual refresher exam. By far most of the discussion centered on the sze and color of sweatbands, illegal jerseys (jersies?), and things that really don't affect them game.

Missing were questions about foul recognition, what is a tactical foul, what constitutes persistent infringement, dealing with encroachment etc.

I think USSFRef has made a nice summary of some of the problems with NFHS and there are many, many that agree

Just my opinion..which mst be right, because if was not right it wouldn't be my opinion

 

You created a monster that you can no longer control.

IT's ALIVE! IT'S ALIVE!!!!

 

Congrats on creating a monster - not that it's a bad thing mind you.

I've also heard, from a former member of the NFHS rules committee, that any and every possible rule change gets vetted by lawyers before being voted on.

NISOA is the officials organization for college soccer, but the NCAA makes the rules in college soccer. I think the reason they get off the hook a bit more is because there are far fewer players playing college soccer than high school. Unfortunately, NFHS seems more concerned with staying in line with the NCAA rather than FIFA, when far more of their players also play FIFA, and only a handfull will use NCAA.

I think another reason NFHS gets lambasted, where NISOA gets off (and especially the USSF) is input by referees. Referees are members of the USSF, and are very involved with the organization. NFHS has a "referee representative" on their rules committee - but there's no published way to contact that person, or to relay your concerns; maybe through your state high school league - but that's only assuming they (1) understand and (2) care.

And don't even get me started about bull**** that is the NFHS's emphasis on "sportsmanship" which exists in name only.

 

Hey Tarheel....What are you talking about? If you are refereeing a game and the the quick restart has not occured (play is slow to resume) and the wall is set 5-6 yards from the ball, you as the referee are not going to back them up? The defense has one responsibility in that spot, and that is to retreat ten yards from the ball...that's it. The offense has all the juice here, and to me, that is a cautionable offense by the defense, and for the referee to tell her that she has to ask for the ten is ridiculous. The defense has no rights, because they committed the foul, and for you to say the offense has to turn it in to a ceremonial every single time is downright wrong. She knows she can go in a hurry, but if they have quickly set a wall that is 5-6 yards away and they have every intention of playing the ball, then what is the ADVANTAGE to the team that was fouled? Why should the offensive player be responsible for policing the area of thefree kick? If she took the kick early and one of those players who had not retreated 10 yards made a play on a ball that was not kicked directly at her, whatwould have been your call? Why give the defense ANY rights on a free?

I'd like to hear from you on that...I think you are way off on it.

R

 

High School or not, the offense is NEVER required to ask for the distance on a free kick. In fact the defense must observe the distance (it is required).

Referees who tell players that the attackers must ask for the distance are wrong and are perpetuating myths of the game. Practically speaking, referees often wait for a request before they step in, because the attackers might try to restart the match quickly and the referees do not want to take actions to interfere or prevent a quick restart. However, this does not make asking a requirement, and if teams persist in failing to respect the distance then the referee must deal with it to prevent recurrance.

 

That's the exact point I wanted to make....it is up to the defense to move their feet in a timely fashion. If a quick free kick is being prevented by the setting up of a wall 5 yards from the kicker, then the referee has to step in and prevent that from happening again. It is certainly not the kicker's responsibility. I know what the advice booklet says, and it does somewhat agree with Tarheel's position, but I don't think the advice is talking about the setting up of a wall 5 yards from the kicker on purpose.

The attacking team is free to go at any time (unless told to hold up and wait for the whistle) so if a player is lollygagging it back to 10 yards, and the kicker kicks it right at them, so be it. But, the defense cannot set up 5 yards from the ball and be allowed to stand there, forcing the kicker to go ceremonial. It is up to the referee to enforce the law and the law says get away 10 yards.

If I was refereeing that game, I would have announced loudly that that's not ten, and if they failed to retreat, I would go ceremonial for one time only. I would set the wall and also tell all concerned that the next time there is a failure to retreat, someone in the wall will be receiving a yellow card. It is a tactic taught by a lot of coaches these days, and it infuriates me that the referees allow it to happen. Why should you as a referee ever give the fouling team an extra advantage? It is simpy poor refereeing and a lack of control of the very aspect of the game that may result in a perfect scoring chance. And when you interfere with a scoring chance by making a bad decision, you are not refereeing to the best of your ability.

Simply put. The defenders must retreat, and if they don't, and they interfere with the timely taking of the kick, then someone needs to be proactive, and the referee is the one charged with that duty.

 

A couple things I'd like to add here. It IS perfectly acceptable for the referee to tell the "wall" to backup without making it a ceremonial restart. For me, and maybe this conflicts with the style of other referees here, there are only two cases where I will go to a ceremonial restart. The first is if the attacker specifically asks for 10 yards. At this point I will indicate to all that the restart will be on the whistle and I'll go and give the wall the "exact" (My best estimate using field markings in most cases) spot of the 10 yards. The second is in a situation where I've told the wall to backup and the kicker is clearly waiting but the wall hasn't backed up or backed-up enough. My threshold on the latter situation gets progressively shorter (I'm quicker to go to ceremonial) the closer the kick is to the goal.

Second, it's important to understand where this myth that the attacking team must ask for 10 yards comes from. ATR 13.3 states that a referee should not automatically set the wall and rather should allow the attackers to put the ball back into play quickly unless they request 10 yards. What it does not say is that the referee must wait for them to request 10 yards before enforcing the distance. The sole intent of this text is to make sure that referees do not hold up a quick restart when the attackers want it. Unfortunately many referees have turned this into the referee is not allowed to enforce the distance unless the attackers ask.

Last season in our Rec league I made this a specific point of emphasis. I had a long conversation with our coaches because in the previouis seasons I had seen players who were coached to stand over the ball while they're team set the wall. We put an end to that really quickly.

 

I tend to keep a running commentary on the required distance during the match. Any time there is a free kick I'll hang around slightly and yell at defenders to back away until things appear clear enough. Personally I advocate that referees remain proactive throughout the match in these instances. You don't need to hold up the free kick, just be making a fuss to get the defenders away from the ball, and warn anybody that fails to comply.

If I award a free kick within scoring distance and the wall deliberately lines up nowhere near 10 yards to prevent a quick restart, I won't even bother with a warning. The first player to the wall gets a caution, end of story. I've rarely had this actually happen though, as most times the wall forms around 8 yards or so and doesn't prevent a quick restart. If I see the attackers looking for the quick restart to no avail and the opportunity is lost, then I'll step in and ask if they want 10. At that point I've never had a team say "no."

 

OK please recall that in my answer to your story I stated that it was an incomplete and quick response to what could become a very complex issue. I also take back the "don't know as much" crap I wrote which wasn't the best way to approach the issue in the first place.

Yes of course I will work to get the defense to give ten yards every time...I'm constantly berated in the Latino leagues I work for cautioning this too quickly as a matter of fact, but clearly and often the defense commits unsporting behavior by preventing the quick restart and I HATE this.

Yes of course I will verbally instruct the defense to back up if they are obviously too close to the ball. What I try not to do, however, is involve myself in the play by moving into an area the offense might try to play the ball to or through, thus taking away their advantage of a quick restart...especially if that quick restart hits me. You said, correctly in my opinion, that the "offense has all the juice" and any action by me to intervene in their restart (until they ask me to) could take away their advantage and I HATE that as well.

The opinions written by USSFRef and Intecpc in response to this train of commentary pretty much mirror my own as well and I don't want to repeat what they've written because they have commented clearly and concisely on this issue. The decision to go to a ceremonial restart, I feel, isn't mine to make unless the defense has committed FGD and I'm going to caution them right then and there. The offense knows if the defense is obviously not ten yards back and if they choose to restart, then...again as you said...so be it.

I do think the defense has a few "rights" in this as well, though. If they are clearly trying to back up in a timely manner and the offense plays the ball into them, then that's the fault of the offense and I'm not going to stop play and/or caution for that. As I said this can be a very complex issue depending on a number of variables including age, level of play, the pace of the match, point in time of the match that this becomes an issue and more.

You said that you work rec leagues and in that case I would be more instructional than the levels I generally work which are U-15 and up classic, premiere and adult where the players are knowledgeable enough that they understand (at least they should!) they are supposed to give ten regardless...and that the offense may restart at any time.

As are many other issues in soccer, what seems to be straightforward and obvious becomes complex and complicated upon further review.

 

Like refereejoe said...I too hang around the area of the free kick but not in the way. I also find that sticking my hand into my right front pocket and taking a step or two towards the defenders who are slow to back up tends to get them moving a little more quickly.

 

Not to belabor this point, but coaches at higher levels are teaching the defense to not allow the quick restart. If the free kick taker is not near the ball when play is stopped and needs to get into position and the wall has been set 5-6 yards away, and the refereee does nothing, that enables the defense to establish a pretty strong procedure. Foul. Then break the rules.

The defense has NO rights on a free. None. And unless the ball is kicked directly at them, I'm calling it back.

BTW, where did you get the impression I was only doing rec games?

Rog

 

I read "rec" on another response and applied it to your scenario...my fault...and I certainly didn't assume you only work rec leagues, only that that was where the scenario started. Sorry and I'll be more careful in the future. We are talking HS matches here but even so, there is tremendous diversity in skill levels and knowledge of the game.

I stand by my position that how quickly I apply the "10 yards" directive depends on the variables I stated earlier...but I will punish quickly FGD if I see that the defense is persisting in it (remember the Latino leagues I work sometimes think I punish it too quickly). When I see it I talk first, then go to cards...but I'll give the attackers every opportunity to take their advantage of a quick restart before doing so. That's all I was trying to say.

When I played I would do the same thing in slowing a quick restart...every player and coach is trying to gain every advantage possible for their team. It's the referee's job to ensure that the game is played fairly.