this is a nice debate you have going. but could we not move this over to NSR. what happened to all the talk about Hiddink?
Yes and NO.... back then Iran's arm forces was broken into divisions and any one of them could have made a deal with Americans... the fact is Iran needed the presence of former government military if we wanted to have a chance and anti-American view wasn't fully shaped yet... back then Khomeini was still alive and the full control over Iran arm forces wasn't under the spiritual leader (Khomeini) as it is now under Khamanei, we had a lot of problems with this lack of unification in arm forces during the war and it could have been easier for us to win the war without this issue!.... p.s. I think we jacked this thread high enough
Of course I am not talking about official, i.e., publically stated, ties with Iran. I am talking about covert ties with the highest leaders. If those who are heavily vested in the defense and oil industries, which account for almost the entire Bush administration, can secure lucrative contracts all over the Middle East by propping up the likes of Saddam, Khomeini, Khameini, and that villain-at-large bin Laden, then it would be absolutely foolish not to, in their eyes. Regimes, whether in the US, Iran, or Iraq never actually fight war - and the perfect example is the G.W. Bush, the draft-dodger. They only seek opportunities to line their pockets from war. And in American history, every War can be an example of this, despite the freedom, emancipation, democracy b*ll********** that you hear all the time. And in fact Rice, Rumsfeld, Powell, Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Bush all made a killing from these wars in defense and oil contracts! To think that they care about the common man or woman, either here or abroad, is totally delusional. The same goes for the leaders of your so-called revolution. And of course the Iranians fought for their own reasons, and that is precisely why Washington can exploit the animonisity - religious and otherwise - that they create and foster, to their own benefit. My point is that the Kurdish tensions in Turkey, Iran, and Iraq similarly benefit Washington and US corporations that supply 80% of Turkey's arms, and support Kurdish and Iraqi resistance forces and leaders(case in point Chalabi of the INC), albeit only to ultimately betray them. I forgot to mention that balance-of-power is a very important doctrine in American foreign policy. This is a euphemism for not letting the barbarians come together to form any formidable opponent that would resist your imperialist ambitions. This is one of the main reasons why Robert Gates, the former CIA head said "[Saddam] was a S.O.B., but he was OUR S.O.B." You know, I have an Iranian friend who dismissed my views at first, but now he agrees with me after I showed him some historical examples that typify the American foreign policy game.
What has the US ever done to support true democracy in Iran? Did they support Khattami, who was the most popular, hence democratic, leader? I can tell you for a fact that every time Khattami was presented in the media in the US that it was in a confrontational environment. And alas you can't really have any democracy at all unless it includes the economic aspect. Every foreign leader who has championed national interest at the expense of American imperialists have been reviled and defamed in the press, and even killed or overthrown. Perfect case in point is Mossadegh, when he proposed nationalizing the Iranian oil fields.
you are banging on the wrong door here... I am truly convinced that America is not a fan of democracy anywhere in the world... but in my opinion IR has nothing to do with US generally but it is possible that some small organizations within IR are under US influence.... generally I hate both IR and the US so if they work together or independent in destroying Iran’s and Iranians’ future it doesn't really change anything!
I was wondering -this is somewhat related with football and the issues discussed in this thread- are the wide diversity of peoples from the Middle East considered 'Asian' outside of the US and Europe? In the States, the term 'Asian' more or less mean peoples from the Far East, while categorically Middle East people are generally known as 'Middle Eastern' or 'Arab.' For instance, when you fill out either federal or state forms, they explicitly designate 'Arab' with 'Asian.' This more or less hold true in the UK, though Asian, here, means people of the subcontinent of Asia, like Indian or Pakastani. However, in both cases, Middle East peoples are considered outside the area of Asia.
well in New Zealand you are Asian if you have slender eyes (no offense).... the ignorance is a bliss in this country and they are so proud of it so much, that sometimes they turn their ignorance into direct racism.... anyways this a well planned political movement that British came up with... dividing Asia into Middle East and Far East geographically.... American politicians adapted this forms and wisely used it but only the Middle East part.... changing it from a geographical division to a nationality which gave them hell a lot more space to maneuver on when they come up with stereotypes regarding the region.... unfortunately they achieved their target and now the whole world is intentionally/unintentionally using it!
Hi Kami, I think our discussion has been somewhat fruitful, in the respect that we have established the utter hypocrisy and underhandedness of the West in their dealings with the countries of the Near East (and of course, I am not only speaking about "Arab" countries) and East Asia. And this is why I feel that Asia should be tougher at the bargaining table if whites want to gain financially from our markets; especially if the West wants to play the human rights card. Turning our discussion more directly to national coaches, are you happy with Branko? Or does Iran need someone approaching Hiddink's caliber to make it past the first round in WC2006?
I don't consider Middle East people/Arabs as Asian, for that matter, I haven't met a Middle Eastern person who considered themselves Asian.
the feeling is mutual... it is always nice to see non-Iranians who are not brainwashed by the western media... I also think that the racism and anti-Asian policies are still very much out there in west but now it's more dangerous and is in stealth mode so when we have the upper hand (like the deal with OZ for joining AFC) we should make the most of it (refer to my post about Asians false claiming that they are taking over western countries).... as for Branko he is the one we could afford back then.... and happened to be successful, I have to say he is not the bravest coach but he knows our players better than anyone else and now is used to Iran so I guess sticking with him can't hurt for WC and would take us far enough.... but wouldn't mind replacing him with a high caliber coach after the WC.... also Hiddink's Iranian assistant in Korea NT during the WC02 can be helpful for us as well for WC06....
just shows you how well the plot is working ... funny enough the word Asia is from Assyrians (and old empire located in current Iran-Iraq-Turkey and Assyrian ppl are still around mostly residing in Iraq) and has a Middle Eastern root!
Hiddink names first Soccerroos squad SYDNEY, Aug 4 (Reuters) - PSV Eindhoven coach Guus Hiddink has named his first Australian squad for a five-day training camp in the Netherlands later this month. Hiddink was appointed Australia's new coach last month, replacing Frank Farina, for their final Oceania qualifying matches against the Solomon Islands in September. The winner of those matches, expected to be the Socceroos, will then face the fifth-placed South American qualifier for a berth at the 2006 World Cup finals in Germany. 'I've watched Australia's recent matches and in consultation with (assistant coaches) Graham Arnold and Ron Smith we have put together a squad which gives us an opportunity to do some intense training,' Hiddink said in a statement. 'There will be significant work done on the field but we will also spend time talking with players about technical and tactical matters. 'I want to make it clear that players that were not included in this camp are in the running for a spot in future squads as we will have a busy schedule over the next few months.' Football Federation Australia (FFA) cancelled a friendly with Colombia in London at Hiddink's request so he could work with the players at the camp. Arnold, who will link up with Hiddink a week before the August 14-18 camp in Hoenderloo, said the Dutchman already had good knowledge of the players. 'Guus is very familiar with our squad and has been doing plenty of research,' said Arnold. 'The squad recommendations from Ron Smith and myself to Guus were designed to give him plenty of options and variations as he wants us as a team to be more versatile and adaptable.' The Oceania qualifiers are on September 3 and 6. Squad: Goalkeepers: Mark Schwarzer (Middlesbrough), Zeljko Kalac (Perugia,), one to be added Defenders: Stan Lazaridis (Birmingham City), Steve Laybutt (KAA Gent), Jon McKain (Politechnica AEK Timisoara), Craig Moore (Newcastle United), Ljubo Milicevic (FC Thun), Lucas Neill (Blackburn Rovers), Jade North (Newcastle United Jets), Tony Popovic (Crystal Palace), Michael Thwaite (National Bucuresti), Tony Vidmar (NAC Breda) Midfielders: Marco Bresciano (Parma), Tim Cahill (Everton), Brett Emerton (Blackburn Rovers), Vince Grella (Parma), Joel Griffiths (Neuchatel Xamax), Harry Kewell (Liverpool), Ahmad Elrich (Fulham), Josip Skoko (Genclerbirligi), Luke Wilkshire (Bristol City) Forwards: John Aloisi (Alaves), Scott Chipperfield (FC Basel), Jason Culina (Twente Enschede), Saso Petrovski (Sydney FC, Archie Thompson (Melbourne Victory), Mark Viduka (Middlesbrough) From soccernet.com http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=338052&cc=5901 It looks like there are only two Australia-based players on this team. The rest are playing in Europe.
Australian squad is impressive as usual. you guys know what would be real interesting? if Solomon Islands give Australia some real challenge.
Hiddink's post-World Cup future decided Hiddink is not headed to England: http://smh.com.au/news/SPORT/Hiddinks-postWorld-Cup-future-decided/2006/03/22/1142703424526.html His departure is confirmed: http://english.psv.nl/show?id=21372&contentid=11275 Why Russia? It seems that Hiddink's tenures in Korea and Australia have taught him a lesson: If you turn a team with potential into a contender, it is much better than coaching in a high-pressure position at a world powerhouse where everyone expects you to succeed - where success is taken for granted. If he can make Russia a world power, Hiddink might be loved in Russia as much as he is in Korea. Free flights on Aeroflot?
Nothings been confirmed on him taking up the Russia job http://www4.sbs.com.au/netherlands/index.php3?id=69182