You'd think that someone who led us to the WC semis, brought PJS & LYP to Europe, and ran a charity in Korea for more than a decade would get a little more credit and respect... but apparently "pride" is the most important thing here. It's not some random guy who wants to barge in take all the glory for himself. It's Guus Hiddink for fck's sake.
All right. Seriously. ******** YOU KFA. ******** you assholes. It's only the more decent part of me that prevents me from spitting more vulgar words on you sh*theads. ********! You guys really can't do your jobs. ******** off already.
Why do you think I'm trying to sway you? Don't flatter yourself. I'm just merely pointing out the ridiculousness of your argument.
To me Hiddink wanting to manage after we secured qualification is a non-issue. He would already have a ridiculously compressed time-frame to get us ready for Russia next year. How in the world would he wade into the shitshow that we called our WCQ campaign and stake everything on two games happening while the fvcking European leagues are getting into full swing. It's madness. If we failed to qualify then he would be the one that spilled the milk even though a braindead Kraut placed the cup all the way at the edge of the table. That's not fair to him at all. And the idea that he should stay with us 'through the tough times' is laughable. He isn't looking for a long-term gig, his career is already pretty much over and he has nothing left to prove. He wanted one last swan song with us because of 정 for the KNT, something the KFA could learn about.
The legend and deity that he is for any of us here, you can not deny that Hiddink's conduct has been less than stellar throughout this whole process.
And I am happy to point out the ridiculousness of both your supposed facts and your arguments any day, good sir. We'll agree to disagree.
As I said in a previous comment in this thread, I simply don't think that the KFA is in a position to care about "conduct". Korean football needs a solid performance at this next WC. Public interest in the sport is measurably declining (ticket sales, ad revenues, etc.) as the fans become increasingly disillusioned with the KNT. If I had faith in STY, I wouldn't mind if the KFA rejected Hiddink, but STY's track record doesn't exactly give me confidence. STY has talent but he's clearly a work in progress, and we know all too well what happened with a certain "work in progress" manager in 2014. And the KFA whining about proper conduct is just hilarious given how they treated other KNT managers in the past and how corrupt they've been with their finances. I don't even think what Hiddink did is even that bad. Big managers come with a price. And that price was a WC berth. I honestly don't give a shit about that, and neither do 99% of Korean football fans. Only the KFA and a select few people have an issue with this.
Yep, agreed with the above for the most part. Saturday night, not a great time to go into detail on BSK at the moment. My only point about Hiddink's recent conduct was that it hasn't been very tasteful, and does sully some of his legendary status that you pointed to upthread. There are obviously a number of unsavory reasons that's already been pointed out in this thread as to why the corrupt KFA has acted the way it has in this saga. But my original point still stands; I want a manager who's willing to lead the team through the lows. It was right there for Hiddink to ask for it, and he passed on doing so. Sorry if 99% of Korean football fans don't give a shit about that, but I don't just blindly follow the masses.
A legend bends over backwards to lend us a hand after we've hit rock bottom and our WC appearance hinged on Iran being good sportsmen to get a result against Syria (a civil war ravaged nation). Yet, the legend is now accused of "recent conduct was that it hasn't been very tasteful" and being unwilling to "lead the team through the lows." Wow... We should just rename this thread to - When being contrary just means you're a dick...
Firstly, Hiddink has already put in more than enough work on the behalf of Korean football to merit such an exception. He already has led the KNT through the lows - from 2001 to a few months before the 2002 WC - when we were in terrible shape, getting trashed in one match after another. He stuck with us through hard times even though the KFA constantly tried to meddle and the media relentlessly pressured and criticized him. He continued to help out Korean football for years afterwards by his own volition. He's already put up with enough bullshit and has proven more than enough in regards to his commitment for Korean football. Secondly, Hiddink is 70 years old, and he wants to take on one last job before he walks away for good. I don't think it was messed up of him at all to make an offer to manage the team contingent upon WC qualification. How many people of his stature/career would want to risk retiring after managing just two games and failing to qualify for the WC? Hiddink is only human, and the fact that he did not want to risk a humiliating end to his career is completely understandable. You've got to get off your high horse and quit that holier-than-thou attitude. I think that you're being too idealistic - too naive, frankly - in asking for such an unrealistically zealous level of commitment from a manager of Hiddink's caliber and age. What you're asking for just doesn't happen in the real world. At the end of the day, none of this matters because Korean football absolutely needs a solid WC performance. Korean football is steadily declining in popularity due to gross mismanagement, and we direly need to produce results for the sake of the future of Korean football. We are clearly not in a position to bitch and moan about "pride" and "proper conduct", especially not in regards to a true and proven supporter like Hiddink, especially not when the KFA is already infamous for "improper conduct" and throwing managers under the bus when convenient.
So taking over a team with two WC Qualifier games charging in like the Cavalry was what Guus was supposed to do? That would have benefited no one, especially the KNT.
Ppl like you need to understand one thing.. I am also a fan of STY's, and because of that, I want him to step down. At this moment, STY is getting all the hate as well because of what KFA did, even tho it's not his fault at all. Also, I am pretty sure he wont succeed next year. Guess what's gonna happen then. The second HMB. He should learn from Hiddink and step up gradually.... I know that he risked his career by taking the job for the last two qualification matches and he did his job. But, if he really wants to save his career, he should step down...
I don't disagree with you but CDR was 22 when he was selected. LSW would be 19-20 next year? Granted, Cha was still an amateur footballer at that time but his selection made sense because he gave us pure blazing speed that many of the players didn't have on that squad.
He picked PJS and LCS when they were 20 and made them central to his plans for the WC when they were 21. Why is this even a point of contention?
I think age is not really the determining factor here. I think that LSW lacking composure, having poor first and overall touch, and being quick but otherwise a sloppy player are the reasons.
That's fine but Park Ji Sung was 22 by the time World Cup came around and he already had professional matches under his belt. LCS wasn't a huge player for us in that World Cup. I'm all for giving LSW a chance. Beggars can't be choosers. But a lot of us are having too high of an expectation on a 19 year old who's barely a professional to be our savior for WC 18.
On the flip side, you and many of the posters here at the glorious BSK thought HMB was the perfect choice to be the manager for WC 14. And we all know what happened... That being said, I agree with you on STY.
Hey, I agree with most of your post again. You make great points, and I'm in agreement with most of them. In addition, if you read my posts throughout this whole thread, I allude to Hiddink's legendary status and his understandable desire for a farewell tour, which all sounds fantastic to me and any KNT fan. This is the only point in your post above that I disagree with, and what's propelled everything I have said. I truly believe I am not being idealistic nor naive at all to expect Hiddink, however legendary and old he may be, to ask to take charge for the September qualifiers, when that Kakao message was sent by the intermediary back in June, rather than for 2018. Personally, with the 3-month window between the June and the September qualifiers, I think the KFA announcing it was going to consider an interim manager for September was a mistake from the KFA. I also think that Hiddink asking to take charge for 2018 rather than for September was also a mistake, from the legend. I don't fully agree with your last paragraph either. As dire of a situation as all this has become, I don't think that hiring Hiddink is a necessity of a solution. The only reason it becomes a necessity is if STY wants to avoid becoming a sacrificial lamb for WC2018. But really, if STY or any football manager would be willing to step down because they didn't want to become a sacrificial lamb, then they likely don't have the personality to be a club or an international manager anyways.
I always maintained that HMB was a good (not perfect) choice among the options that we had at the time based on the results he got us and given he managed the core of the KNT in London. It's much better than going with CKH for that WC.
PJS was 21 and LCS was 20 at the WC. They were preparing a year ahead of the WC. How was LCS not a huge player for us at the WC btw? I'm still undecided on LSW. But if he can step up, there's a clear need for a midfielder/attacker like him who is willing to move towards the box with the ball at his feet in the KNT to open up spacing for KSY. Otherwise, we're going to be stuck with the endless U-turn passes.
Using the term "many" seems a bit far-fetched considering there were a handful of members including myself that was for Gunes. In the end, we had no choice but to support Hong Myung-bo once he was officially announced the manager to lead us at Brazil.
No..."many" is pretty accurate, but again it's not anyone's fault. While he wasn't everyone's first choice, there's no shame in any of us admitting we had high hopes for him and were more or less happy w his appointment. He was the only acceptable and realistic alternative. At the time, without any precedent, there was also reason to be very optimistic -- his players loved him, he had won us a historic bronze medal and led us to some impressive wins during the 2009 u-20 run. Well now we know that means squat. Further, in terms of NT resume, STY is basically a poor man's HMB -- not quite the same gravitas, one full round short during the olympics (and that's even with a "world class" EPL player at his disposal), and one full round behind at the u-20 (and that's with home field). The pessimism here abt him is fully warranted.....and that's not even factoring in the head scratching in-game management and tactics he has used. Also, people are allowed to be wrong, lol. @Seol Korea used to be one of LYS's biggest advocates before he wised up. No point in bringing up errors from 4 years ago. We're all fans at the end of the day.