Help me out here...

Discussion in 'Asian Football Confederation' started by laurent garnier, Aug 24, 2002.

  1. laurent garnier

    laurent garnier New Member

    Aug 22, 2002
    Singapore
    Seriously right, we've all heard how proud the Koreans are about hosting a successful World Cup and how great their players really are. If the players are so darn fantastic, help me answer a few questions.

    1] Why are the Korean internationals playing in Belgium and Turkey?
    2] Why do the 'lesser' nations like Japan and China have players in the REAL TOP leagues like Italy and England?
    3] Korea have qualified for SIX WORLD CUP FINALS, and yet nobody really wants their players? China have only qualified once and there are already two players, Sun Jihai and Li Tie, who have played [not as substitutes mind you, albeit small teams like Man City and Everton but still streets ahead of Anderlect I am sure] in the Premiership.
    4] European teams are still looking for Japanese players.
    5] Why are players like Lee Chun-so prevented from even going for trials with Southampton?!

    WHY!!??!?

    So much love and so much patriotism from Korea but why are the players still stuck in Korea?!
     
  2. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    You just answered your own question. Partly, anyway.
     
  3. Korea_Fighting

    Korea_Fighting Red Card

    Jun 17, 2002
    Because Korean internationals are not recognised in Europe yet. We are still learning.

    But are they starters in the big leagues of Europe??? I don't think so.

    What do you mean??? Anderlecht is in Belgium league and is the best team in Belgium, whilst Everton is lower ranking team in the EPL. They are not in the same league geographically either, so what is your point??? Just shows your lack of footballing knowledge. Scouting involves alot of marketing potentials and Japan and China has plenty of that. Korea is starting to breed out true talents.

    Such as??

    I don't know. But why are you so keen? I'm sure Lee will do fine in the end.


    I want to ask you that question my self. What is your true motive of posting this????? Are you jealous??? Pro-Japanese??? Is Japanese????? Is Chinese????? <---- probably.

    Good point. But your motives are not positive. Anyway, you pointed out good points. First of all, I don't mind players going to minor leagues in Europe. Korea is still in learning stage and it is not advisable to goto teams that you cannot be starters in. But we are sending out players to Europe to minor leagues in Europe which they will run as starters and will progress to major leagues eventually. That is the master plan. K-League should aim to breed young talents and aim to gain financially by exporting alot of them to minor leagues in Europe. Seol Ki-Hyun is currently TOP SCORER of Belgium League. Do you know any Chinese or Japanese player who are top scorer of the overseas league they belong to????? Anyhow, I don't like your underlying motives but I do think this is a good observation.l
     
  4. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's really similar with the United States - not a single post-World-Cup signing despite a run to the quarterfinals, while three Chinese players have signed in Europe since the World Cup and one of the three (Li Tie) is now a full-time starter.

    The reasons: 1) Clubs want money, and in this year's depressed transfer market I don't think they're likely to get money. 2) There's still some bias against both Korean and American players in Europe - the US bias is historical, and the bias against Koreans has much to do with the refereeing in their matches this year. 3) The Korean league is stronger than the Chinese league, so players are not as likely to grab every chance to move abroad.
     
  5. laurent garnier

    laurent garnier New Member

    Aug 22, 2002
    Singapore
    I am sorry if you think that I am implying anything. You are getting too defensive for your own good.

    What I am trying to say is I just watched Sun Jihai for the second time in two weeks and I thought he was outstanding.

    Sun and Li are not top scorers in the English League but the plain fact is that they are playing in the English Premiership. Like I said, not as substitutes, but as genuine starters of their respective sides.

    I read somewhere on the board that Fulham always seem to score when Inamoto is on the field and I saw him made the pass for Fulham's third goal last week.

    I haven't seen anything but I read that Nakamura is having a good time in Italy as well.

    No need to mention anymore about Shinji Ono. A UEFA Cup to eclipse Cha Bum-kun's feat is good enough reason to call him a fantastic player.

    All the above mentioned players are all in their early 2O's and I firmly believe they are 'breeding' very nicely in the European leagues.

    I think more Korean players deserve a place in Europe, which is the point of my original posting. I just don't understand why they are not and your reply has not contributed to my little query.

    Anybody out there who has more contructive contributions please input.
     
  6. "are you jealous!?" "pro-japanse?" "is japanese?" "is chinese?" LOL good job leelo. just asking a question have him considered as a jealous man.
     
  7. rather twisted patriotism that one day will bomb my place to bring me justice
     
  8. Korea_Fighting

    Korea_Fighting Red Card

    Jun 17, 2002
    EPL is higher standard than minor leagues in Europe, but Dutch league and Belgium league are still way ahead of K-League, J-League or C-League. Hence, one of my point was that playing in top teams of minor leagues in Europe isn't that bad comparing to playing in one of the lowerst team in EPL. But it is a good sign for Chinese players to play as starters in lower ranking team in EPL --- it surprises me. I also think it is not fair. But what do you want from me???? Do you think I'm some kind of agent in England???
     
  9. Korea_Fighting

    Korea_Fighting Red Card

    Jun 17, 2002
    Hey I want to discuss some serious stuff here. It is no play for kid, wheey~~ Hohoguchi...
     
  10. Korea_Fighting

    Korea_Fighting Red Card

    Jun 17, 2002
    By the tone of the post I could tell that this kid was upto something. You just want to inflame. You are a troller. You don't need to worry. We will work things out. I firmly believe it is more important to strengthen up K-League and input more advanced coaching and relegation system, then sending out our kids to England.
     
  11. LOL!! leelo discuss some serious stuff? let me hear it!!
     
  12. Korea_Fighting

    Korea_Fighting Red Card

    Jun 17, 2002
    If Super homoguchi types a single word again in this thread I'm not contributing to this thread anymore.
     
  13. laurent garnier

    laurent garnier New Member

    Aug 22, 2002
    Singapore
    I think Park Ji-sung is ready for Europe, and I think, no offence to a very electric Feyernoord side, Song Chong-gug deserves better than the Dutch league.

    Of course, everybody needs a stepping stone to get to a better league and like how Nakata succeeded with Perugia, I certainly hope both Song and Ono can move on to bigger teams and win bigger honours.

    Back to my original post. I am very surprised, as you are, that Li Tie and Sun Jihai have made two starts in the EPL already. I don't see them being dropped unless of rotation or injury and that says a lot about their ability.

    Everywhere I read I find very positive reports about the two Chinese players. I saw with my own eyes how good Sun is, and read how fantastic Li Tie has been.

    Are K-League clubs stopping their own players from moving and if so, why? Money? Wanting to protect the level of their own teams?

    It doesn't matter if I am Chinese, Japanese or Iranian. I can be pink with yellow polkadots and I will still be supporting Asia.
     
  14. BuffloSoldier

    BuffloSoldier BigSoccer Supporter

    Jan 31, 2000
    Northern NJ
    Both sides need to cool out a bit, and post in a civil manner--or cards will be given.

    Thank you.
     
  15. by the way i thought you were busy and wouldn't have time to visit here often so you left this thread before.
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=9143
    but it seems like you obviously "contributing" more than before so as to entertain me. it just reminded me of your last time disappearance that you had been supposed to be gone for 6 monthes but came back within a week.
     
  16. topcow

    topcow New Member

    Nov 23, 2000
    New York
    Most European leagues sign Asian players for two reasons, one is for the player to contribute to the team in search for a trophy and the other one is to introduce the team to the Asian markets.
    The Chinese players in the EPL aren't forwards, they aren't going to help the teams win anything, they are there for the big Chinese market.

    Koreans aren't going to these European leagues because K league isn't that bad compare to these minor leagues, giving the K league teams much more leverage in bargaining and much less reason for Korean players to leave their club other than for financial reasons. (There are other reasons including Korean culture and Korean government, but they are minor)

    Also, Korean national team is so good because they work as team. There aren’t many individual talents on the Korean national team that mixes well in European clubs.

    Also Chinese forwards are horrible in Europe, and none of them play for top teams.

    BTW, when did Seol Ki-Hyun became the top scorer?
     
  17. Anaheim

    Anaheim Member

    Oct 2, 2001
    New Zealand
    BTW, when did Seol Ki-Hyun became the top scorer? - Last week.

    My theory is that China and Japan have more publicity in Europe. ie China has third of the world's population and Hong Kong having a connection with England makes them well known in Europe. Japan have good publicity because at one stage they tried or did invade half the world. On the other hand Korea is just a tiny little country who do quite well in everything but not enough to be noticed.
     
  18. nw

    nw Member

    Nov 14, 2000
    My guess is that Korean players/clubs demand too much money, and the transfer market in Europe is kinda lean right now, so they have less choices. And despite their performance in the last WC, they are still seen as less of a sure thing, so clubs don't want to take chances with them.

    Sun Jihai went to Crystal Palace first, because a few years ago, China had an English advisor, Ted Buxton I believe, he's a good friend of Terry Venables. So Sun had that connection working for him initially, which is how he became known in England.

    Li Tie, (and Qu Bo and Li Weifeng) are on loan, so to the clubs, there's very little risk.

    Lastly, I wouldn't call Everton and Man C. small teams, they both have been champions before, Everton is one of the best supported teams in England, Man City is also well supported as well and well funded.
     
  19. Chachi King

    Chachi King New Member

    Mar 14, 2002

    http://english.joins.com/Article.asp?aid=20020823000536&sid=600

    Take this article with meals twice a day, and call me in the morning.
     
  20. ForzaGrifo

    ForzaGrifo Member

    Sep 22, 2000
    Welcome aboard, laurent. I think the huge Chinese and Japanese markets are the main reasons why Euro teams like Chinese and Japanese players so much. Also, like some posters have mentioned, Chinese players are relatively cheap (Li Weifeng's salary at Everton is only 20,000 pounds per year), and Chinese clubs are more than happy to sell or loan out players.

    You're right, Korean players deserves to play in the top Euro leagues. But when it comes to buying players, managers and owners realize that football is a business, and in business money is king.
     
  21. another funny comment by korean although right now i'm not in the mood or have time to go deep
     
  22. jamisont

    jamisont New Member

    Jan 30, 2002
    one simple answer, Marketing wise, anyone would take chinese or japanese players over korean players.
     
  23. Maczebus

    Maczebus New Member

    Jun 15, 2002
    Behave.

    Neither historical nor related to the WC is this so called bias.

    Both leagues want more money for their players than the teams in Europe are willing to pay for them.

    Simple as that.
    There's a fair few US players in the EPL, where's the bias?
    There isn't one at all. If it's the right price, they'll have it.
    If not, the player can remain where he is.
     
  24. junjunforever

    junjunforever Member

    Feb 18, 2002
    Most have been answered. in simple points the reasons are

    1. Korean clubs don't want their stars to go away from the team.
    2. Europe looks for Chiense and especially Japanese players for marketing strategy.
    3. Korean ageants suck.


    as the Lee Cheon soo problem, the club wants respect. Club didn't want Korean "star" (although i dont consider him one) to go through a trial.
    Korean player's price is way too over valued by the clubs. I think most should be about 1-2 million dollars but the club asks for at least 3 million.
     
  25. SmokingMan

    SmokingMan New Member

    Aug 21, 2002
    A Dark Smoke-Filled
    I heard that Alex Santos was just signed by Chalrton for $4 million, and Junichi Inamoto was signed by Bolton for $5 million. It doesnt seem like the Japanese players are having a hard time getting good transfer fees.

    Probably the comment about the World Cup performance is closer to the truth. Everyone who watched the matches knows that Korea must have bribed the referees in the World Cup. I dont see how you could take their semifinal position seriously. They only deserved to make the final 16, at best.

    Based on the money they are getting and the results they produce for their clubs, I have to think the Japanese are better than Koreans or Chinese. I wouldnt know who is better among Korea or China, but its obvious that the Japanese players are more in demand.
     

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