@Tropeiro you are literally a chart generator You have No opinion it is as if football can be purely defined by statistical graphs who’s origin is obscure Present a single dribbling performance+end product (just one) vs a bone fide good team in the champions league QF to final that can compare to ronaldos best Everything else(dribbles per match that did not lead to anything) is just SPECULATION Your estimations of what percentage Neymar and ronaldos game is creative and goalscoring is FICTION Where is the evidence prime ronaldo was 80% goals+20% creative LMFAO
Source? For SPI it is at 6th probably with something like 53-55, while Eredivisie and the Argentinian League its around 41-45, but the TOP5 European League is kind of overrated for the richest squads. Can you stop putting Cronaldo's name together of Messi? They are of different levels. Messi is a better finisher, creator and dribbler than Ronaldo, a superior footballer, the Portuguese lacks talent, he is not talented as Messi. The most obvious conclusion after being outplayed by the Argentine for all his period playing in Spain. Btw, If I think the Ballon D'or is serious then I'll start to think that Modric is really the best player in the world right now. This is a political prize. Just it. Ballon D'or doesn't evaluate the quality of the players. Of all forms Cristiano Ronaldo reached his high level in 2007 and was a world class player with a lot of luxuries disponible until 2014 when he dropped his form. Neymar reached it in 2015 (not in 2013 or 2014) and he is just starting his peak, Neymar's peak is probably between 2015 - 2022. From 2013 (adjusted at more fixed position in Barcelona) to 2015 he improved a lot, and with PSG - staying free from injury - will improve still more. Comparing both at their peaks imo Neymar is a better dribbler and creator, Ronaldo is just a better finisher and by smaller difference than the numbers could suggest (and Neymar is improving in this department). Without forget: Neymar at 21 years old Individual Awards Neymar with the Golden Ball award for best player at the 2013 Confederations Cup. Campeonato Brasileiro Série A Team of the Year: 2010, 2011, 2012[289][290][291] Chuteira de Ouro: 2010, 2011, 2012 Bola de Prata: 2010, 2011 Bola de Ouro: 2011 Campeonato Brasileiro Série A Best Player: 2011[290] World Soccer Young Player of the Year: 2011 Copa Libertadores Most Valuable Player: 2011 FIFA Club World Cup Bronze Ball: 2011 South American Footballer of the Year: 2011, 2012 FIFA Puskás Award: 2011 Bola de Ouro Hors Concours: 2012 FIFA Confederations Cup Golden Ball: 2013 FIFA Confederations Cup Bronze Shoe: 2013 FIFA Confederations Cup Dream Team: 2013 Club Santos[2] Campeonato Paulista: 2010, 2011, 2012 Copa do Brasil: 2010 Copa Libertadores: 2011 Recopa Sudamericana: 2012 Brazil FIFA Confederations Cup: 2013 You will not find many talents better than Neymar with 18-20 years playing in South America these days. Obscure? Of course the data from Opta is of obscure origin, young man, of course. Your opinions that are clear (of course not). Cronaldo's game is 80% focused on scoring and 20% on create chances, that's my opinion, if you think it is 50-50 ok (but you are wrong).
Individual Awards won in SA mean hardly anything Remember vargas,Guerro,Fred were consistenty top 5 best SA player LOL Fred is a guy who got completely exposed in france For Lyon he scored 0.34 goals per match For Fluminense he scored 0.6 goals per match He became twice as good in Brazil (no coincidence) And ligue 1 although it was better then it is now was still way behind EPL,la Liga and Serie A The confed Cup is a over glorified friendly tournament so in reality Neymar only won Puskás award by the time he was 21 for a goal scored against a Brazilian team who’s quality cannot be established When he came to spain he could no nothing like it despite playing in a more dominant team
At 13-14 years old Neymar was already treated as a future superstar. https://as.com/diarioas/2013/09/05/english/1378382438_649079.html https://tvuol.uol.com.br/video/em-2006-neymar-quase-foi-jogador-do-real-madrid-0402CD183560DCA14326 https://www.antena3.com/noticias/de...-equipo_201806245b2f712d0cf29e2c4a22e772.html At 13-14 years old Cristiano Ronaldo was being outplayed by Jose Nobody in Andorinhas.
Dude I think your smoking some very strong marijuana that isn’t available in Europe 13-14 years old... Now what’s next....neymar was also a better footballer in the playground with his school friends!!! Oh please
Best 3 consecutive seasons(in terms of statistical output)including goals,assists,involvement percentage and team edge/scoring rate Cristiano Ronaldo 07-09 Club:Manchester United Position: winger/left midfielder 91 goals+41 assists in 151 games Manchester United scored 347 goals in these 3 seasons(173 games): 2 goals per match Total Involvement by Ronaldo:38% Neymar 15-17 Club: Barcelona Position:wide forward/FW 90 goals+61 assists in 145 games Barcelona scored 515 goals in 3 seasons(181 games):2.84 goals per match Total involvement by Neymar:29% Rivaldo 99-01 Club:Barcelona Position:attacking midfielder/SS 87 goals+30 assists in 141 games Barcelona scored 352 goals in 3 seasons(163 matches):2.16 goals per match Total involvement by Rivaldo:33% Ronaldinho 04-06 Club:Barcelona Attacking midfielder 61 goals+51 assists in 132 appearances Barcelona scored 294 goals in 3 seasons(156 matches):1.88 goals per match Total involvement:38% MVP(most valuable player over a 3 consecutive season period) 1.)CR7 and R10: 38% involvement 2.)Rivaldo:33% involvement 3.)Neymar:29% involvement Interestingly if you removed all of Neymars goals and assists from Barcelona’s goals tally they would still average a higher scoring rate than Manchester United 07-09 and the Barcelona team of Ronaldinho 04-06 Barcelona 15-17 with Neymar 2.84 gpg Barcelona 15-17 without Neymar 2.01 gpg Manchester United 07-09 with CR7 2.0 gpg Barcelona 04-06 with Ronaldinho 1.88 gpg https://www.bdfutbol.com/en/index.html https://www.transfermarkt.com/ http://www.redcafe.net/threads/manchester-united-goals-and-assists-1987-88-today.396084/
What about Figo? Of all forms it is very known that not only Barcelona, but also Real Madrid had a superclub team and that La Liga in those days (09-14 specially) was an uncompetitive league with just two teams fighiting for the title. Also in La Liga, Neymar was taking ~3.5 shots 90 min less so than Suarez (~3.65) and Messi (~5.5), third option of goalscoring. Ronaldinho in 2005 was taking 3.2 shots per 90 min, now Cristiano Ronaldo is 2006/2007, 2007/2008 and 2008/2009 was taking 4.2 in the Premier, likely the first option. So, Cristiano Ronaldo (4.2), Neymar (3.5) and Ronaldinho (3.2) shots per 90 minutes. Cristiano Ronaldo made 91 Goals, just 1 Goal more than Neymar tho. Both were playing in the same position, specially Ronaldo's 07-08 and 08-09 (same way he was playing for Madrid in 09-10) and Neymar's Barcelona as LF, WF, FW. Ronaldo 2006/2007 was maybe playing deeper, in the same way of Ronaldinho, but even if that the Portuguese was trying to shot more than the Brazilian, which means he was playing more advanced or was having the freedom to shot for any position he wanted, or both. IMO Neymar and Ronaldinho = Dynamic Playmakers, Cristiano Ronaldo (07-14) Complete Attacker. https://i.imgur.com/D85TCyx.jpg https://understat.com/player/2099
@carlito86 The problem with using goal involvement is that the particular player you're analyzing could have a really big positive effect on goal involvement. Neymar did wonders for Barca's attack. A few games without him is usually not enough sample size anyways. If you look at Neymar's finishing %, it's very much in line with other greats.
More of the same false info from @Tropeiro Ligue 1 is ranked 5th best league in Europe compared to the EPL 07-09 which was ranked best in Europe (as was La Liga during 04-06) https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2006 https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2008 https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2018 Your assumption that ronaldo was a complete attacker and not a dynamic playmaker is based on no facts You did not read any of the sources I posted Ronaldo was officially recognised as a midfielder in 2006/07 and 2007/08 By all sources UNANIMOUSLY a free roaming midfielder but still a player who spent a substantial amount of time in the midfield building up attacks/playmaking etc In 2008 He was ranked the 2nd best playmaker in Europe behind only prime Xavi and ahead of Messi https://iffhs.de/history-iffhs-awards-2008/ In 08/09 he became FW to accommodate Berbatov but he did not like it at all (even so he still scored 26 goals+12 assists) After this he was never listed as a top 3 playmaker but as a forward for Real Madrid Giggs with 300+ career assists who knows about playmaking wingers more than you said about ronaldo 06-08 “That season Ronaldo was unreal he created so many chances his overall play was unbelievable” https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...s-better-two-seasons-ago-says-Ryan-Giggs.html Everything else you mentioned is made up (ie about dynamic playmakers,complete attackers)l I never heard of these terms till I started discussing with you Made up like your estimation that ronaldo was 20% playmaking 80% goals LMFAO Neymar in Barcelona was like a WF NOT a real midfielder
The initial configuration doesn't matter, what really matters is the average position in the field, there we could reach some conclusions. Cristiano Ronaldo in 2007/2008 up to 2009/2010 was already a WF, more creative, little more participation but already a WF and a WF with offensive approuch. 2006/2007 he was indeed a creative attacker just playing deeper, if not a WF. Ronaldo focus is clearly in scoring goals much more so than in create opportunities or build up plays, even in 06/07 when he had 2.2 chances created per 90 minutes, he had 4.7 shots per 90 minutes in the EPL too, 2.2/4.7 = 0,47 chances created per shot. Neymar in 2016/2017 had 3.5 chances created per 90 minutes and 3.6 shots per 90 minutes = 0.97 chances created per shot. Of course Ronaldo can create chances but this isnt and has never been his main function. On the other side, Neymar is likely much more envolved in build up plays and had much more that type of mentality than CRonaldo. They are a different players. Neymar numbers with Barcelona: 186 Matches, 105 Goals and 76 Assists Goals scored by Barcelona: 500 Total involvement: 36.2% https://www.transfermarkt.pt/neymar/leistungsdatenverein/spieler/68290 https://www.thefinalball.com/xray.php?jogador_id=54814&jogador_na_equipa_id=40&filter_match=in_with Nice comps of Neymar.
https://iffhs.de/history-iffhs-awards-2008/ Voted by a panel of experts and statisticians who know the difference between a flipping striker and playmaker Which is why prime R9,prime Henry,Prime Romario,Prime Van Basten etc never had a place on this list You really don’t have the slightest clue about what your saying so you just make it up as you go along When ronaldo became WF in 10-14 or FW in 08/09 guess what? He never made top 3 playmaker because he was now a fully fledged forward who played closer to goal. Before 06-08 ronaldo was either the main playmaker/inside forward or winger who dictated play in the final third,crossed like an elite winger,scored like the best strikers A complete player ONLY lacking in defensive work rate/tracking back but THATS IT Ronaldo 2008 is the only player not named Messi to have been best forward and also top 2 playmaker in the world (Messi actually won the award a few times in recent times and also 10/11)
Political awards based on hype. Neymar does a lot more things on the pitch than Cristiano Ronaldo at any time in his career. Just shot the ball less, ~3.5 vs 7 per 90 min.
I assume the “hype” should’ve been 10 fold when he was a madrid player or wasn’t it? Just take a nap dude.your Brazilian hero is only good for laying waste to teams in the groupstage and then becomes a tapin striker in the KO stages He never carried any team in his life to a trophy in Europe and he’s been here since s he’s 21 years old Completely and utterly overrated marketing phenomenon Circus clown Denílson averaged as prime dribbles as prime Messi so I guess we should give him some consideration for Goat level dribbler As it stands Neymar is below figo and on par with Eden hazard
Neymar is much better dribbler and playmaker than Cristiano Ronaldo PERIOD. This isn't worth a discussion, the difference is considerable.
It is unusual for a winger to be the playmaker in a team, but Cristiano Ronaldo is no usual player, and he was a playmaker for Manchester United. During his final few seasons at Old Trafford, the attack focused around Ronaldo. Being allowed more freedom to float around the attacking third, Ronaldo not only scored goals but created them as well. His flair and creativity allowed him to unlock a defense and influence the attack. Ronaldo became something of a pseudo-trequartista around the time that United ended Chelsea's brief spell of Premier League dominance. He became the nightmare of defenders, roaming the attacking third in menacing fashion. Once he had the ball, it might as well have been game over. There was little that could be done to stop him. He was the all-around attacking threat for United, possessing all the attributes to split open a defense either with his dribbling or his passing. Ronaldo was also a brilliant goal scorer, and while he still created opportunities for his teammates, in his final season his flaw was perhaps being a bit too selfish and taking the shot himself. Although he was an unorthodox playmaker, he was also one of the best. Ronaldo completed his transformation from playmaker to out-and-out goalscorer at Real Madrid , but nothing from his career will be as good as the memories from 2006 to 2009, watching him run through defenses and play the killer ball that unraveled many a club https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1071433-manchester-uniteds-top-7-playmakers-of-all-time#slide2 After 2008 he was never voted top 3 playmaker ever again for duration of his tenure as a Real Madrid player Why? Because he became a wing forward and obviously he then had a superior midfield to what he had at. Manchester United so he really never had to drop deep and dictate play as other players had already filled in that role for him We can get one thing straight, as a playmaker Cristiano ronaldo is also greater than your god Pele. If you would like to do a head to head comparison between them in terms of best playmaking performances then I would be more than happy to Neymar plays in the worst top 5 European league of all time (ligue 1 was never this weak probably at any of stage of its history in modern times) The games are open allowing creative players to create chances at will,run at defenders who don’t even understand the concept of tackling of defence. They are defenders in only but name Not to mention Neymars playmaking is a complete non factor in CL QF to final matches and has been for his whole career Neymar cannot unlock world class defences via dribbling or playmaking he never did it NOT EVEN ONCE Hence the reason he became a tapin striker in the 14-15 QF to Final With Messi as goat playmaker and Suarez doing the donkey work Matter of fact Neymar could never even score a single goal in the CL QF to final after 14/15 when the teams like Atlético couid neutralise Messi’s playmaking threat Neymar was as useful as a one legged man in an arse kicking competition. Neymar is ONLY an effective dribbler+playmaker when the games are open and/or he plays against teams with a high defensive line can Neymar score and create 6 goals in a single champions league QF tie completely wrecking the best defensive team in the champions league through dribbling and doing so functioning as the main playmaker http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/6517355.stm Can Neymar create goals out of nothing in champions league quarter finals or semifinals NOT AT ALL In the big matches Neymar is an inferior player to Diego Milito and that’s a fact you can take to the bank he can never be compared to great players hence the reason he’s losing the vote to figo who also wasn’t a big game player He would barely edge out hazard if I was to set out a poll and of course hazard is also another CL big game choker but admittedly a great league performer
prime Luís Figo vs prime neymar best 2 seasons Luis Figo 99/00(midfielder) 14 goals+23 assists in 51 games Barcelona scored 127 goals in all competitions Direct Involvement:29% Luís Figo 00/01(midfielder) 13 goals+27 assists in 50 games Real Madrid scored 115 goals in all competitions: Direct involvement:35% Neymar 15/16(forward) 31 goals+25 assists in 45 games Barcelona scored 170 goals in all competitions Direct involvement:33% Involvement Neymar 16/17(forward) 20 goals+26 assists in 45 appearances Barcelona scored 168 goals in all competitions Direct involvement:27% https://www.bdfutbol.com/en/t/t2000-012.html http://soccer-europe.com/Biographies/Figo.html https://www.transfermarkt.com/luis-...98&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id= https://www.transfermarkt.com/neyma...16&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id= Prime Luís Figo was involved in a higher percentage of goals for his team despite playing in a much deeper role as either a Right midfielder for Madrid or a REAL winger for Barcelona compared to Neymar who was usually the second most advanced player behind Suarez and playing as a wing forward or even striker(which figo never was). Prime Luís Figo was involved in a higher percentage of his teams goals despite taking only 5 penalties compared to 10 penalties by Neymar during the aforementioned period Neymar is only a better athlete and as a consequence will have a longer peak and barring injuries surpass Luís Figo for his consistency but unlikely his peak level .Admittedly figo did not maintain this level of influence for long enough otherwise it would be a long shot for Neymar to overtake his legacy In 14/15 CL neymars influence was comparable to a Shevchenko 98-01 who was a FW (even prime sheva was more likely to create his own goalscoring opportunities in big matches then Neymar who was totally reliant on service against big teams) In the 99/00+ 00/01 CL QF to final stages Luis figo Scored 3 goals+5 assists in 7 games During the same stages Neymar 15/16+16/17 scored 0 goals+0 assists in 4 games As expected Neymar lead in groupstage goals+assists where his legacy was manufactured
False numbers and cheap propaganda... like Cristiano Ronaldo as playmaker, he is a "playmaker" like Salah, in that level. Real numbers here: Figo 17 assists + 8 goals = 25 of 99 Barcelona Goals: 25,2% (98-99) 17 assists + 14 goals = 31 of 103 Barcelona Goals: 30,1% (99-00) 27 assists + 13 goals = 40 of 114 Madrid Goals: 35% (00-01) 61 assists + 35 goals = 96 of 316 Madrid/Barcelona Goals = 30,4% Figo = 26 - 28 Years old. Neymar 39 goals + 10 assists = 49 of 137 Barcelona Goals: 35,7% (14-15) 31 goals + 25 assists = 56 of 145 Barcelona Goals: 38,62% (15-16) 20 goals + 26 assists = 46 of 124 Barcelona Goals: 37,1% (16-17) 90 goals + 61 assists = 151 of 406 Barcelona Goals = 37,2% Neymar = 22-25 Years old. Figo wasn't envolved in more goals, Neymar was involved in more goals (by a considerable margin) and also Neymar was the best dribbler and the best creator of La Liga at some point (2016-2017), I don't think Figo reached this level, and different than Ronaldo at United and all the Propaganda, Neymar was a objective dribbler as you can see in some videos I already posted here. Neymar is a better passer (of all positions and range), more creative and a more efficient dribbler as well. Figo is a better comparison for Neymar at this point. Champions League KO stages: Neymar (15-17) = 9 Goals and 3 assists in 15 Matches, Barcelona scored 31 Goals (38,7%)... 38,7% > 37,2%. I was going to make a few remarks about some things, but this troll who needs to put his macho on every topic speaks so much shit that I declined. lol But I'll still make the comparison of both in their respective selections (against TOP15 NT) in that period.. I need time for that tho.
124 goals+53 assists in 186 appearances Luis Figo was the top assister in the history of La Liga only surpassed by Lionel Messi He is also one of the highest assisters in CL history so that is where all those “extra assists” that you have categorised as propaganda come from (some of the wide criteria and others strict criteria which at the end of the day is irrelevant because I have included all types of assists for Neymar) Using transfermarket as a assists source for pre 2000 players just proves once again you’re a lazy analyst Transfermarket doesn’t even credit Romario 93/94 with 10 assists when in actual fact he made 16 assists with the evidence footage to prove it The facts of the matter are figo did make 23 wide assists in 99/00 a season in which he was very arguably the best player in the World. He also did make 27 assists during 00/01 in his debut season for Real Madrid Categorising facts as propaganda doesn’t make them untrue but in fact makes you look like a upset fan girl who just realised Neymar can’t even match up to Luis Figo let alone the all timers you insist on comparing him to
This is Neymar best season. with Tuchel he evolved from a selfish player, to a team player who sacrifices himself also in defense. Right now I prefer Neymar to Messi. But to achieves certain successes, will depend on the teammates and the referees, because often PSG has been disadvantaged by scandalous refereeing
Interestingly, Tuchel play him in the no.10 just as often as he does wide left now. If Neymar could reach the top in this role it'd be the return of the no.10, given the dominance of the inside-forwards in the past decade or so.
'WhoScored' and such still list 'defensive contribution' as a 'weak' point, though it no longer is 'very weak'. I agree his decisions seem to be better now from what I have seen. The difference between the Real Madrid game early this year and the recent Napoli games and the 2nd Liverpool match (not the first) is huge. The number 10 position seems to work very well in French football. That is my own impression (based on what I have seen) and is backed up by the WhoScored ratings. If we look at the Ligue 1 players included in the Guardian top 100 (provided that they played several games as AM): Fekir: rated a lot higher as AM (7.53) Depay: rated a lot higher as AM (8.69) Neymar: rated a lot higher as AM (8.64) Mbappe: rated slightly higher as AM (7.94) With the exception of Mbappe (0.15-0.20 higher) the others score 0.50 points or higher as an AM. It makes sense to give this AM position to your most marketable or 'best' player. Of course there are also other obvious considerations: Fekir or Neymar as striker isn't the best allocation of your talent and the skill-sets by the players. It's the same thing as that you don't put Cole as your #10 and Cantona as #9. Mbappe can still impact games as a semi-winger or striker (his swift movement, teamwork, razor-sharp coordination etc. is one of his very best attributes). His added value might be about just as high, still. French league was for years seen as a 'defensive' league, but that is (perhaps) changing.
The #BestXI with 3-1-4-2 roster in year 2018! 🔝1️⃣1️⃣⚽#Keeper: @SpursOfficial#Defense: @LFC@FCBayern@ManCity#Midfielders:@ManUtd_ID@ChelseaFC@PSG_English#Wingers @PSG_English@juventusfc#Forwards@juventusfc @FCBarcelona#InStat #BestXI #football #BEST2018 pic.twitter.com/W1a1bvle26— Hudl Football ⚽️ (@Hudl_Football) December 25, 2018 The best player of the @FIFAWorldCup 2018 by InStat Index is @neymarjr (404). The Brazilian forward created the biggest number of chances (24). #InStat #Neymar #Nj #WorldCup pic.twitter.com/faGwfvR0rk— Hudl Football ⚽️ (@Hudl_Football) July 17, 2018 This season, @neymarjr has become the best player by InStat Index (450). For the first time in 10 years, someone has surpassed Messi in the leaderboard! #InStat #InStatSport #Neymar #Messi pic.twitter.com/nEs2ah7yVp— Hudl Football ⚽️ (@Hudl_Football) June 13, 2018 .@neymarjr in back right in time for the @FIFAWorldCup! With the start of the qualification stage in South America, having Nj in 17 matches, Brazil has not lost a single game while in 13 matches without him, they lost 3 times. #InStat #WorldCup #Brazil #Neymar pic.twitter.com/LPTGKijivW— Hudl Football ⚽️ (@Hudl_Football) June 10, 2018