Well yes, the stats company will obviously 'talk up' their model as accurate or worse, predictive. It doesn't take a lot to know that these stats aren't be all and end all. Anyone who follows these stats sites have had plenty of occasions where they see a player who was universally deem to have had a poor game receive high stat score because of the action they do add up the points. Personally, for me, Mustafi has been a classic example for us. Also, I wouldn't be so hopeful of them getting too much more accurate anytime soon. Even with CR7 shots, for example, it's impossible to take all, or even most factors into account. Between two identical shots, we don't know the wind speed, the amount of physical pressure that's applied on the shooter, the body balance at the moment of contact, etc etc.
@Tropeiro i never checked or even cared to check leadleaders data since i joined this forum in 2016 but once and for all this is going to be a complete career ender for him. Goals+Assists in 1 goal competitive margin matches(including wins and draws) Tournaments League+champions league Time frame 2009/10 to 2011/12(his chosen timeframe) Will only be including data from matches they participated in to make this as objective as possible Cristiano Ronaldo 2009/10 La liga 2009/10 Real Madrid 3-2 deportivo Player Involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_deportivo-de-la-coruna/index/spielbericht/955779 Real Madrid 3-2 Seville Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_sevilla-fc/index/spielbericht/957431 Real Madrid 3-2 Atletico madrid Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_atletico-de-madrid/index/spielbericht/957505 Almeria 1-2 Real Madrid Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ud-almeria_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/957628 Real zaragoza 1-2 Real Madrid Player involvement=2 assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-zaragoza_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/957656 Real Madrid 3-2 osasuna Player involvement=2 goals https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/malaga-cf_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/957698 Real Madrid 1-1 Malaga Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/malaga-cf_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/957698 2009/10 Champions league Real Madrid 1-0 Zurich Player involvement=0 goals/assists Real Madrid 1-1 Lyon Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_olympique-lyon/index/spielbericht/988803 2009/10 Overview 6 goals+2 assists 19 team goals 9 competitive matches La liga 2010/11 Real Madrid 1-0 osasuna Player involvement=1 assist https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_ca-osasuna/index/spielbericht/1036076 Real sociedad 1-2 Real Madrid Player involvement=1 assist https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-sociedad_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1036090 Sporting gijon 0-1 Real Madrid Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sporting-gijon_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1036175 Real Madrid 1-0 Seville Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/getafe-cf_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1036233 Getafe 2-3 Real Madrid Player involvement=2 goals https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/getafe-cf_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1036233 Real Madrid 1-1 almeria Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ud-almeria_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1036256 Real Madrid 1-0 Mallorca Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_rcd-mallorca/index/spielbericht/1036263 Espanyol 0-1 Real Madrid Player involvement=1 assist https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rcd-espanyol-barcelona_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1036292 Atletico madrid 1-2 Real Madrid Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/atletico-de-madrid_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1036357 Barcelona 1-1 Real Madrid Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1036385 Champions league 2010/11 AJ Auxerre 0-1 Real Madrid Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/aj-auxerre_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1050089 AC Milan 2-2 Real Madrid Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ac-milan_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1050129 Real Madrid 1-1 Lyon Player involvement=1 assist https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/olympique-lyon_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1069435 Tottenham 0-1 Real Madrid Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tottenham-hotspur_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1088514 Barcelona 1-1 Real Madrid Player involvement=0 goals+assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1093390 2010/11 Overview 4 goals+4 assists 20 team goals 15 competitive matches played La liga 2011/12 Racing santander 0-0 Real Madrid https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/racing-santander_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125271 Real sociedad 0-1 Real Madrid Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-sociedad_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125328 Valencia 2-3 Real Madrid Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/valencia-cf_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125347 Mallorca 1-2 Real Madrid Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rcd-mallorca_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125404 Getafe 0-1 Real Madrid Player involvement= 0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/getafe-cf_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125440 Rayo vallencano 0-1 Real Madrid Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rayo-vallecano_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125471 Real betis 2-3 Real Madrid Player involvement=2 goals https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-betis-balompie_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125483 Real Madrid 1-1 Malaga Player involvement=1 assist https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_malaga-cf/index/spielbericht/1125499 Real Madrid 1-1 Villarreal Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/villarreal-cf_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125509 Valencia 0-0 Real Madrid https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_valencia-cf/index/spielbericht/1125527 Barcelona 1-2 Real Madrid Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125566 Granada 1-2 Real Madrid Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/granada-cf_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1125585 2011/12 Champions league Dynamo Zagreb 0-1 Real Madrid Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/gnk-dinamo-zagreb_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1141854 Real Madrid 1-1 CSKA Moscow Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cska-moscow_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1174226 bayern Munich 1-2 Real Madrid Player involvement=2 goals https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_bayern-munich/index/spielbericht/2194740 2011/12 Overview 10 goals+1 assist 21 team goals 15 competitive matches Overall Cristiano Ronaldo scored 26 goals+9 assists in 48 competitive league and champions matches(1 goal margin wins or Draws) 0.75 goals+assists per game 60 team goals 58% direct involvement Lionel Messi La liga 2009/10 Barcelona 1-0 Almeria Player involvement= 0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_ud-almeria/index/spielbericht/955875 Barcelona 0-0 Valencia https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/valencia-cf_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/955884 Barcelona 1-1 osasuna Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ca-osasuna_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/955905 Barcelona 1-1 bilbao Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/athletic-bilbao_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/957251 Barcelona 1-0 Real Madrid Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/957261 Sporting gijon 0-1 Barcelona Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sporting-gijon_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/957372 Barcelona 2-1 Getafe Player involvement=1 goal+1 assist https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_getafe-cf/index/spielbericht/957389 Barcelona 2-1 Malaga Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_malaga-cf/index/spielbericht/957420 Barcelona 2-2 almeria Player involvement=2 goals https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ud-almeria_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/957437 Mallorca 0-1 Barcelona Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rcd-mallorca_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/957497 Espanyol 0-0 Barcelona https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rcd-espanyol-barcelona_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/957644 Seville 2-3 Barcelona Player involvement= 1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sevilla-fc_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/957682 Champions league 2009/10 Inter 0-0 Barcelona https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-internazionale_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/971649 Rubin kazan 0-0 Barcelona https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rubin-kazan_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/971652 Dynamo kiev 1-2 Barcelona Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/dynamo-kyiv_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/971654 Stuttgart 1-1 Barcelona Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/vfb-stuttgart_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/988801 Arsenal 2-2 Barcelona Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/arsenal-fc_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1003665 Barcelona 1-0 inter Player involvement=0 goals/assists 2009/10 Overall 6 goals+1 assist 20 team goals 18 competitive matches played 2010/11 la Liga Atletico madrid 1-2 Barcelona Player involvement=1 goal+1 assist https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/atletico-de-madrid_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1036083 Mallorca 1-1 Barcelona Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_rcd-mallorca/index/spielbericht/1036112 Barcelona 2-1 valencia Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_valencia-cf/index/spielbericht/1036132 Sporting gijon 1-1 Barcelona Player involvement=1 assist https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sporting-gijon_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1036295 Barcelona 2-1 Bilbao Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_athletic-bilbao/index/spielbericht/1036310 Valencia 0-1 Barcelona Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/valencia-cf_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1036322 Barcelona 1-0 Real zaragoza Player involvement=1 assist https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_real-zaragoza/index/spielbericht/1036333 Barcelona 1-1 Seville Player involvement 0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sevilla-fc_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1036343 Barcelona 2-1 Getafe Player involvement=1 assist https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_getafe-cf/index/spielbericht/1036354 Villarreal 0-1 Barcelona Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/villarreal-cf_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1036363 Real Madrid 1-1 Barcelona Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-madrid_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1036385 Barcelona 1-1 levante Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/levante-ud_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1036427 2010/11 champions league Barcelona 1-1 rubin kazan Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rubin-kazan_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1050098 Copenhagen 1-1 Barcelona Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-copenhagen_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1050123 Shaktar donetsk 0-1 Barcelona Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/shakhtar-donetsk_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1088516 Barcelona 1-1 Real Madrid Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_real-madrid/index/spielbericht/1093390 2010/11 overall 7 goals+4 assists 20 team goals 16 competitive matches 2011/12 la liga Barcelona 2-2 Real sociedad Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-sociedad_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125244 Valencia 2-2 Barcelona Player involvement=2 assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/valencia-cf_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125263 Sporting gijon 0-1 Barcelona Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/sporting-gijon_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125282 Seville 0-0 Barcelona https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_sevilla-fc/index/spielbericht/1125302 Granada 0-1 Barcelona Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/granada-cf_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125313 Bilbao 2-2 Barcelona Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/athletic-bilbao_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125334 Espanyol 1-1 Barcelona Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rcd-espanyol-barcelona_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125397 Villarreal 0-0 Barcelona https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/villarreal-cf_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125425 Barcelona 2-1 Real sociedad Player involvement=1 goal+1 assist https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_real-sociedad/index/spielbericht/1125434 Atletico madrid 1-2 Barcelona Player involvement=1 goal https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/atletico-de-madrid_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125463 Levante 1-2 Barcelona Player involvement=2 goals https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/levante-ud_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125555 Real betis 2-2 Barcelona Player involvement=0 goals/assists https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/real-betis-balompie_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1125597 2011/12 champions league Barcelona 2-2 Milan Player involvement=1 assist https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_ac-milan/index/spielbericht/1141846 Milan 2-3 Barcelona Player involvement=1 goal+1 assist https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ac-milan_fc-barcelona/index/spielbericht/1141924 Chelsea 2-2 Barcelona Player involvement=1 assist https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_chelsea-fc/index/spielbericht/2194739 2011/12 Overview 6 goals+6 assists 24 team goals 15 competitive matches played Overall Between 2009/10 and 2011/12 Lionel Messi scored 19 goals+11 assists in 49 competitive matches (one goal margin wins or draws) 0.61 goals+assists per match 64 team goals 47% direct involvement Sayonara Leadleader
With no hard feelings, it seems to me you rarely watch football. I mean do you actually watch matches or its just these stats from Wikipedia , whoscored ratings , sofascore ratings , BCMs , BCCs , Understat , xA , xG , media ratings , some match compilations , compilations of some actions (even those are misleading in many cases as i've seen before) , heatmap etc So one game is literal representation of where they operated throughout their career ? Lol . Also Maradona in 86 world cup was deployed behind Valdano and had a free role behind the CF in attack , enrique , buruchagga and others were also taking care of the midfield . Infact their strategy was having a solid midfield of 5 men in a 3-5-2 and allowing Maradona freedom to do whatever he wanted. Very different to having the responsiblitiy in a team like Napoli , in a league like Serie A. Since you like data , bring me data of how many touches they had around the box and in the box , average no of shots , average no of shots from around the penalty box region , no of Big chances generated by teams per match etc. Btw this is about scoring solo goals. 70% (or probably even more) of Messi's so called solo goals came from before 2015 before he started dropping more deeper for ball progression (still has a high number of touches around the box and high volumes of shots). Go and check them out please . And for your information , i don't see how heatmap shows how a player uses the ball . Maybe in your world , there no other actions on field other than scoring , final pass and ball progression Someone like Isco or De Bruyne would have a similiar heatmap (which just indicates zone of operation )to Messi and still they make use of the balll differently , have different approach to the game.
From my experience of watching and observing La Liga all these years , i would say Messi seemed to score a lot of goals towards end of game when opponent was tired , or when game was already dusted as far as i remember watching compared to Cristiano Ronaldo. So here Cr7 has the edge in terms of production . I was surprised first seeing leadleader's calculation. Also i think another case where Cr7 would lead messi probably (in terms of production that is) if someone calculates their stats home and away. It seemed messi tend to be productive more in camp Nou and less away compared to Cr7
For all Football fans here- I invite you to come and select the top 10 Football clyb teams forever and ever: https://vote.sparklit.com/web_poll....=e20fa3b3ea2fde554f3521053689ce22b0&preview=1
CR7 scored 40.5% of his goals in away field. Messi scored 38% of his goals in away field. Difference is pretty small.
Quite a lot of pages in this thread for what is a very ludicrous question. How could a player who isn't even unequivocally the best striker of his generation be considered as surpassing Brazilian Ronaldo? I'd like to see anybody unequivocally argue that prime Lewandowski is better than prime Luis Suarez. And I say unequivocally because you better be considered undoubtedly the best striker of your own generation before you are compared with a player like Ronaldo. How could a player who has never played in a Top 3 league, who while also not playing for an elite national team, has still not come close to overperforming relative to his national team's strength during his career (Poland in 2016 could have very well gone to the Euro final and Lewandowski was comparatively nowhere to be found)…how could Lewandowski be considered better than a player who is not a generational talent, but a multi-generational global talent? Ronaldo was so talented, and demonstrated it so early in his career, he was part of a World Cup winning squad at the age of 17. A Brazilian squad, not only the most decorated national team of all time, but one renowned specifically for their attacking ability. Only a player like Pele had similar achievements at 17. Where was Lewandowski at 17? Playing in the Polish 4th Division with Legia's reserve team. 'But but who cares about what they did at 17...' many will cry. Ronaldo is still, to this day, the youngest player to ever win FIFA's World Player of the Year and the Ballon D'Or. Only a player blessed with supreme levels of talent, a global talent found once every few generations, could have achieved what he had by the age 21. Lewandowski is a phenomenal player, a generational talent in his own right but to ask if he's better than a player who was not only described as phenomenal but who had the nickname of being The Phenomenon in global football, who set World Cups alight and lit up the Spanish and Italian leagues while playing for Barca and Inter teams that were stratospheres away from having the dominance Lewandowski's Bayern has in a weaker league... it's just a very silly thread and the only response needed to OP's question is 'No Lewandowski has not surpassed Ronaldo - And at this point in Lewandowski's career it is clear he never will.'
* @poetgooner I should have responded to this before, but I just don't realistically have time these days. At any rate, I will try to be as concise as I can, as I genuinely have no real interest in discussions with you anymore; in a nutshell, you are always right, and yet your conclusions are always - with all due respect - extremely lazy and convenient, not to mention orthodox and linear to the extreme. However, there are still plenty of playmaking midfielders today and they are afforded the same luxury when they are their team's main playmakers. Where are the articles calling KDB or Verratti or Bruno Fernandes wasteful? As I correctly predicted (with all due respect), you just appear to be too narcissistic or self-absorbed, to truly take in what I actually said. Kevin De Bruyne is the epitome, the perfect modern player; Kevin De Bruyne is the exact opposite of Zinedine Zidane. I mean... Why would you ever unironically reference Kevin De Bruyne and Bruno Fernandes, as examples of modern day Zinedine Zidanes or Fernando Redondos?? You have literally proven my entire argument; you fail to understand how this sport has evolved after the Zidane generation; you fail to understand why this sport has evolved the way it has; but then you pretend to act like an expert on the subject. Modric. Kroos. Verratti. Kevin De Bruyne. Bruno Fernandes. Are all very modern players; they do not "waste" any time doing the artistic theatrics of Zidane and Redondo, instead, these modern players are always purely utilitarian, always on point, always purposeful; well except for the fact that you are wrong, which is obvious to see given the fact that you do not have a very good understanding of how the modern game functions, let alone how the previous version of football functioned. I mean, players like Modric already existed and were relevant throughout the Zidane generation; Xavi Hernandez and Paul Scholes are obvious evidence of said fact, in fact, Pep Guardiola himself was already evidence of this, before the Zidane generation. Michel. Demetrio Albertini. Pep Guardiola. David Beckham. Paul Scholes. Xavi Hernandez. Football already had those modern players, and those modern players already were extremely relevant; the fundamental difference is that football used to not be a monoculture of Guardiolas and Beckhams, which is why the eye catching theatrical players like Baggio, Zidane, Laudrup, Redondo, also belonged to the beautiful game of the past. Modern football in fact is a tactical supremacist monoculture, where the vast majority of players do not naturally fit in. In fact, it is only a matter of time before the two modern titans, Mbappe and Haaland, physically break down, as a result of the unrealistic physical expectations of modern football. Not even the players who naturally fit, will survive the irrationality of the modern game. In the end, it is James Rodriguez who ends up playing in Qatar, Mbappe and Haaland who will break down early in their careers, and modern fans like you, who for some reason will want to celebrate the so-called "evolution" of a sport that is so radically exclusionary, that not even the two designated darlings of the modern tactical supremacist paradigm, Mbappe and Haaland, will last long in it. At any rate, my argument always has been that modern football is irrationally exclusionary, and it is exclusionary because of the fact that it is unnecessarily too fast, as a result of the yellow card becoming obsolete; in the absence of a coherent and efficient regulative body or government, players must escape becoming a victim of yellow card resistant tactical fouling, and the only way to do this is by playing super-fast football, with no time for the "wasteful" theatrics of the past. This unfortunately excludes a lot of players. This unfortunately makes it easier for the super wealthy clubs to buy the minority of players who fit into the modern supremacist tactical cynicism paradigm that is modern football, which is why the money ballers of modernity want it this way. I mean, this is not even a complicated mystery; modern football by virtue of being hyper-exclusionary, makes the accumulation of wealth and power into the hands of the few, a lot easier. The super-clubs can simply buy the minority of players who fit into the modern scheme, and then players like James Rodriguez end up paying in Qatar. Zidane: 2016, 2017, and 2018. Klopp: 2018 and 2019. Tuchel: 2020 and 2021. That is not normal, in fact, that is the literal definition of extraordinary. Modern football is fundamentally so boring to the eye, that winning is the new star of the game, now that stars are not really thing. Guardiola and Klopp are bigger stars than any of their actual players. At any rate, that is the sad-sight of a tragedy that happens when nothing objective, nothing real, nothing observable; no external observable currency "anchors" modern football; it is the perfect business for the super clubs that want to play 3 consecutive Champions League Finals, and then act like this is not a broken scheme. This is really a rather simple story: football is in fact a very old sport, and the yellow card was always going to become borderline obsolete at some point in the history of the sport, but then the money ballers became aware that winning money was easier if the yellow card was obsolete, so now rational replacement for the yellow card ever came into existence. End of story. Modern football is by definition exclusionary to the extreme, because it is fueled by the capitalist idea of infinite money. New Green Card: Obvious tactical fouls where the defender obviously had no interest to try to win the ball: will always automatically be a green card. 3 green cards = yellow card for the player who fouled. 6 green cards = red card for the player who fouled. Rotation fouling will end, as a result of the green card always going to the 3rd foul and the 6th foul, with no regard for the total quantity of fouls by any specific player. Yellow card resistant tactical fouling will also obviously end, which would be a most glorious sight to behold I'm sure. The green card would slow football down, and that would be the long term legacy and consequence of the underrated fact that defenders would actually have to fight for the ball, instead of simply getting rewarded for repeated yellow card resistant tactical fouls. Jack Grealish is failing at Manchester City, and will unequivocally fail at Manchester City and at every other super-club, precisely because of the yellow card resistant tactical fouling that makes players like Grealish more or less useless, in the unique and unprecedented context of super-clubs who already enjoy an over-abundance of ball retention talent. Pep Guardiola was furious at the fact that Liverpool's repeated fouls were not even registered as fouls in the first place, and even when the foul was actually registered as a foul, it never was a yellow card. James Milner should have seen 2 yellow cards in that game, but instead, he received only 1 yellow card and no penalty kick against him for his obvious foul. Textbook modern football cancer. Modern football does not deserve to be celebrated as a positive continuation of the progress that was accomplished by the better, the classier, and the far more inclusive eras of the past; instead, modern football deserves to be called out for what it is, a hyper-exclusionary tactical supremacist business model, where only a handful of designated high places players get their lion's share of the spoils. I just don't see any evidence of your claims. Yes, there is no evidence for any of my claims, and all the data I have generously shared with you is just "subjective" to your modern sensibilities. Of course, it is beyond obvious at this point, that I made the common mistake of overestimating you, not necessarily your intelligence, just your ability to be able to offer something worth my time and my attention; I was under the impression that you genuinely enjoyed having discussions about this sport, in which case, even if I were to not agree with everything you say, I might still be able to learn a thing or two after listening to you. Unfortunately, though, it is now abundantly clear to me that your only real interest is to perpetually listen to the sound of your own voice. And I cannot stress this enough: I do not say this, out of spite, simply because I disagree with you; instead, I say this because you didn't even do the bare minimum of at least understanding what my argument actually was. At every given chance, you have actually unironically made a mockery out of my argument. "Modern football actually uses the yellow card more than past versions of football. Your argument makes no sense." Of course, you conveniently excluded and ignored the fact that yellow card resistant fouls have increased at a far greater rate than the yellow cards themselves, which is the obvious problem here; the increase in yellow card resistant tactical fouls, is around four to five times greater than the actual increase in yellow cards. This is an insurmountable problem. The old versions of football had less yellow cards, but a lot less yellow card resistant fouling, which is why the classical game balanced itself out in many ways. But then again, why even waste more time discussing this with you, when you can only perceive the world through the prism of radical orthodox behavioral patterns i.e. manufactured consent. You win the argument, if that was even your intention.
First of all, if you're actually going to call me names in every single post you tag me, then yes, I would happily call it a day after this post. "Yes, there is no evidence for any of my claims, and all the data I have generously shared with you is just "subjective" to your modern sensibilities." You're taking me out of context here. It was a specific response to a specific claim you made. Look, it doesn't have to be complicated here. From what I understand, you claim that a player like Redondo would under appreciated today. All I'm saying is, show me the evidence that such a mentality exists. For a start, Redondo is already raved about by many modern fans. Perhaps more through narrative than actually having seen him play, but lets forget that for a moment. I've spoken about players like Neymar and KDB and FDJ not being under-appreciated. You say they're not the same at all. Okay, that's fine. Then just tell me who are the players today who are most similar to Redondo in your mind, and then show me the evidence that they are not appreciated. Then we can have something to actually discuss. Otherwise, your claim of Redondo or a Redondo-type player being under appreciated by modern football fans isn't even worth entertaining.
Modern fans that are actually knowledgeable about the sport. The average modern fan wouldn't really know who he is, even on this website I've rarely seen him referred to relative to other players from his generation - which is why @leadleader is citing him - Only a real fan like @leadleader could not only know who Redondo is but appreciate him. 'Modern football is fundamentally so boring to the eye, that winning is the new star of the game'. Oh @leadleader, as is so often the case with you, here is one single line that perfectly encapsulates the rest of your unneeded tsunami of text. Professional sportsmen, ladies and gentlemen, wanting primarily to win in the sport they compete in - is a new development in football, according to @leadleader. Up until recently, professional footballers generally would evidently prefer something else to winning. 'The more difficult the victory, the greater the happiness in winning.' That quote is attributed to Pele. Here's a better one that expresses what he means by difficulty - Difficulty he faced coming from extreme levels of poverty, as is the typical story of players in this global sport. A quote from his dad, regarding the talent he was given by God and the accompanying responsibility that came with it: ‘Listen. God gave to you the gift to play football. This is your gift from God. If you take care of your health, if you are in good shape all the time, with your gift from God no one will stop you, but you must be prepared." Do you know what his father meant by 'no one will stop you', @leadleader? What would happen if Pele showed God the gratitude He deserved by fully developing his unique talent? He meant exactly what Pele ended up achieving (by winning - attaining success). Developing his unique talent to the point where he became considered the Greatest of All Time in the world's most global sport in history. Pele and others that came from similar backgrounds as him, CR7, Messi, Eusebio, Maradona, Garrincha, etc. we can go on and on - players from countries where the beauty of the game is very highly valued, still know that at the end of the day - it's winning that matters. Even Maradona wanted to win at all costs that he even scored a goal with his hand in the World Cup and celebrated it as effusively as his other goal in the same game. Two goals with completely different stories but all intended on one objective - to win. And Maradona, considered by many as the greatest artist on the ball in the sport's history, didn't care how he did it. If you think @leadleader that the greatest players in this sport's history were primarily driven by a desire to bring entertainment to the eyes of their audience...you are so wrong it's almost genuinely sad. It shows you lack a comprehension of what drives greatness in general and what Pele's dad was ultimately driving at. Greatness is doing what the players mentioned above all have done - Taking the unique gifts given to them by God and showing Him gratitude by fully developing those gifts - developing themselves to be the best that they can be - becoming the best ONLY by winning competitions - and then showering those around them, their loved ones, with the benefits from their SUCCESS. Definition of Success - 1) The accomplishment of an aim or purpose. 2) The opposite of failure (victory). Definition of victory (winning) 1: the overcoming of an enemy or antagonist 2: achievement of mastery or success in a struggle or endeavor against odds or difficulties.
He, like many people, seem to fall into the trap that everything in the past was better basically only concentrating on the good moments and ignoring the bad ones. I am not saying he doesn't make good points about how today's football is played, but he paints a picture that is much darker than reality. I mean, football was so great in the 80s and 90s that FIFA literally had to change the rules of the game to open up the game and promote attacking. They greatly changed the offsides rule, banned GKs from picking up the ball on a pass back, and changed the point system awarding a win 3 pts instead of 2. I mean, if football was so much better back then how in the world did it give us WC 90 which was universally criticized for it's defensive tactics and boring game at the time ? There were tons of boring games back then. Unless you're living under a rock, the past 10 years have produced many truly spectacular games / clashes in the CL. Clasicos between Barca and Madrid have more often than not delivered great games in the past decade with plenty of scoring and quality play. The state of the leagues is definitely a problem in modern game. Other than the EPL there has definitely been too much predictability up at the top due to financial imbalance.
He's uniquely averse to the truth, it's actually fascinating - He takes what is a standard in the universe of sport - reality - that winning is the objective, across all generations of athletes, even more so in professional athletes who have as their main function to compete to win in their sport- their livelihoods actually depend on it and in most cases, the prosperity and well-being of those around them - he takes what is actually reality and subverts it to what he thinks is true - a 'reality' where prior generations of footballers actually valued something other than winning, such as aesthetics of play - a 'reality' (delusion) that has never existed. Because in no reality has something external like aesthetic of football play ever superseded what comes from within - the internal drive to be the best - a drive that comes from God and, as Pele's dad more-or-less stated, once properly developed, returns to God accordingly. It's just like when he said Atletico could never come close to winning the Champions League - even though they have in the recent past - twice. Literally as close as a team can come to winning the Champions League. But he said it never happened. He said reality never happened, and was as sure then as he was in the text above. The only reason I said it's only 'almost' genuinely sad and not downright genuinely sad is because I know he'll come around one day. One way or another. And the truth will set him free.
R9 is unequivocally the most talented striker of his generation You could even say he is unequivocally the most talented player of his generation For me though the undisputed greatest striker of a generation has to score more goals then any player of his generation BS aside A strikers worth is measured in goals Always has and always will The technique,the ambidextrous nature of a player,ball carrying,dribbling etc is obviously a bonus but the numbers(however you get them) are more important Its also very difficult to gauge the strength of bundesliga during the last decade or so Since you mention it Since 2009/10 the aggregate score between Bayern Munich and FC Barcelona is 20-5 Im not sure what hope teams like schalke,Wolfsburg and Dortmund have against the machinery of bayern except in some rare cases (at the beginning of the last decade when bayern were still rebuilding)
@benficafan3 Lewandoswski this year reached 69 goals, and is more decisive than Suarez. Until last year, it was only possible to discuss the peak of both, but now it's not enough for Suarez. Lewandoswski is much more regular, scorer and decisive. Not counting longevity, Suarez with the age of Lewandoswski was already declining, Lewandoswski has been at his peak for about 3 years or more. In other words, more top scorer, more peak time, more decisive, I prefer him. He goes beyond a fluff that plays for Bayern and is lucky. I speak calmly, he as a finisher takes the top 5 in history
Anyone who choose R9 over Lewandowski is just fanboying at this point. Lewandowski had better peak & his consistency/longevity blows R9 out of the water.
R9 technical skills were simply much better and he was a Olympic level athlete playing football, the way he carried Barcelona's and Inter's attack to almost win everything in those years is something is out of Lewa's range as a footballer, the way R9 managed to score goals in World Cup and Copa América's finals shows he was clutch enough as well. Football is simply much easier for the best footballers nowadays than before and Bayern is a stacked team as anyone in history, they manage to create a big chance in Bundesliga each 20 minutes.
I am not gonna argue here. I am just gonna demonstrate something: Stats, trophies, team achiements, Ballondors etc etc. None of them show the Big Picture in its entirety. Even the collection of all those etceteras do not show you the big picture if you have not watched and experienced the two compared players in action. If you watched both R9 and Lewa, ask yourself this question: which of the two would have scared you more if either one was in the adversary team? For me, Lewa could never scare me as much as R9 would have scared me in case he was adversary. With R9, you just would never feel secure: At any moment, he could just 'ignore' your defense and score out of nowhere, like Messi. Suares also did have such savagery though nowhere near in frequency, CR7 too does have unpredictability: his off-the-ball movement, seldomly his dribbling, seldomly his long-shots and often his heading. That is my elaboration on why Lewandowski is not near anywhere R9, Suares, Henry, Ibrahimovic etc . That is why I would say R9 is a better footballer. Do you notice one thing: R9, Suares, Henry etc's brilliancy depend on their own: they can just go, run,destroy your defense and score whereas with Lewandowski it depends on a well-operating harmony of a team.
Even in praise Sir Arthur cannot resist taking a huge fat dump on Cristiano Ronaldo There is a long long history of this This is when you mix truth with lies and unfounded claims Goals from out the box since whoscored started collecting data Zlatan ibrahimovic 38 goals https://www.whoscored.com/Players/3281/History/Zlatan-Ibrahimovic Luis Suarez 30 goals https://www.whoscored.com/Players/22221/History/Luis-Suárez Cristiano Ronaldo 69 goals https://www.whoscored.com/Players/5583/History/Cristiano-Ronaldo These traditionalists fans live i think in their own alternative universe If Luis Suarez is merely capable of savagery what is Cristiano Ronaldo? A freaking barbarian Cristiano is a phenomenon,” Di Stefano told Marca. “He is number one – a barbaric player https://www.football-espana.net/2013/11/26/di-stefano-ronaldo-a-phenomenon Of course for you he is just the player with great off the ball movement and heading And some rare instances of inventiveness LMAO He is not the player with more goals out the box then Suarez and ibrahimovic combined since whoscored started collecting data He is not the player with the most dribbles in the 2006 world cup and 2006/07 CL Sir Arthur has a history of course. In his special world Marcus rashford is a better Manchester United player then Cristiano Ronaldo Im not a liar and hope i will not be forced to find the quote(which i am quoting verbatim) Of all the many reasons one could pick R9 over lewandowski the 'scare factor' is probably the most laughable. Did someone here do a poll to find out which player was more feared in their era Players even the best ones are known to give 3 different answers to the same question Maldini said Maradona was the best player he ever faced He also then said r9 was in his first inter Milan season He then said in 2007 that Ronaldinho gaucho was the best player he ever faced(there is a source for this) There are many reasons why R9 could arguably be better then lewandowski Talking about scare factor detracts from the quality of the debate
To begin with, I shall inform you (readers) that I have not looked at the cited links JUST to emphasize my point (read on, you will understand). Ronaldo's long shots are barely a threat. You bring up the number of long shot goals he has scored but that does not correlate to scarce: Out of how many attempts he scored that 69 goals? Check this and compare it to others like Messi or Ibra. My prediction would be, his long shot conversion rate is 1 at 10: %10 at best and I think even this guess of mine is extravagant. If one takes 100 shots and miss 90 of them, you don't feel scared of his shoots. As for Rashford quote, I do not recall the exact statement of mine BUT as far as I recall it was about technique, not "who is better" player. I still can say Rashford has better technique than CR7. If need be, we can find the origin of my quote (which I think is among the last 10 or 20 answers of mind). A person may think A is better, and then state B is better. This scarce factor will reveal whom the person really thinks better. By the way, CR7, at least since 2003, is the person I cheer for in prizes like Ballondor, Golden Boot etc
On the longshots, would you also happen to have the long shots attempt for all three as well? It would be interesting to see if he took about as many long shots as Suarez or Ibra, but scored at roughly twice the rate. That would be a very strong argument in his favor I would imagine, or maybe he's just scoring at an average rate but Suarez and Ibra are just really poor at long shots Obviously, things could get even cloudier once we factor in difficulties. For example, Player A might be playing for a team that takes long shots as a last resort so he's always shooting into a crowded box, while Player B plays for a counter-attacking team that are given a lot of time and space to take his long shots.
Sorry but this is completely bizzare Cristiano Ronaldo has more long shot goals then Suarez and ibrahimovic put together since 2010 Show me one goal from out the box those to players scored in the QF to final rounds of major competition's It doesnt exist This kind of video is something you could never put together if you combined footage of Suarez,lewandowski and ibrahimovic(their whole careers) 84 goals denied by the post since 2009 He was 24 in 2009 and already did this previously 20 - Harry Kane has become the 18th different player to score 20 Premier League goals from outside the box, with this goal equalling the number of goals from outside the box both Cristiano Ronaldo and Gianfranco Zola scored in the Premier League. Scope. #SHUTOT pic.twitter.com/lH1PLyPwZu— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) January 17, 2021 The technique of Marcus rashford is superior? Not even on FIFA career mode Not even in your own dreams Flipping heck man If you are supposedly a fan/supporter/cheerleader of Cristiano then who needs enemies
Things get even funnier when you look at his conversion rate. Look at their conversion rates, why do you not bring that into the table, unlike what @poetgooner and I proposed for example? If someone takes 100 shots and scores 3-5 of them, then his long shots is not even seldomly a threat to be scared of. As I stated in my previous answer, even the assessment "seldomly" is extravagant. And why long range goals scored "Quarter final and beyond"? Tailor-made-arguments, like that of Bada Bing By the way and most importantly, why are you drawing the discussion into "CR7 vs Ibra/Suares" etc? The point, nor in the original post neither in mine, was never CR7's skills vs Lewa and alike CR7 was just used as one of the examples. The fact is, reality contradicts your disneyland and you never feel secure with CR7.
Bro 19 - Lionel Messi has scored 19 goals from outside the box in the UEFA Champions League – since his debut in the competition back in December 2004, only Cristiano Ronaldo has scored more from range in the competition (20). Thunderbolt. pic.twitter.com/bBqt7vCCMx— OptaJoe (@OptaJoe) March 10, 2021 The only Disneyland is the one where you live in where Robert Lewandowski is nowhere near ibrahimovic and Luis Suarez
And then? What relation does it have with my post? Did I argue CR7 did not score the most number of long range goals? or what? What is your point in bringing this stat against my content? If that was a disneyland, then you would not be talking about CR7 vs others when you opposed me