Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Cascarino's Pizzeria, Oct 7, 2023.

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  1. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Israel reports to the ICJ this week, to evaluate if they were following court orders to take all steps to reduce civilian harm. They will fail spectacularly. Blocking the humanitarian aid and Rafah were the most egregious. But they didn't care from the beginning. Rulings can be political, favoring the group with the greater power. In this case that's Israel, who most of the $ and the world's biggest superpower is behind. But I think the utter defiance will lead to Israel being found guilty in the end. If they didn't find Israel guilty when all their top officials are admitting to their crimes, then there's no point to the court. You'd hope they'd expedite the ruling since it's an open and shut case and now's when it would be an influential statement.

    Also, there's a huge scandal at the NY Times. One of the co-authors (Anat Schwartz) of the Hamas mass rape story was a former Israeli intelligence official who was on her first job there and had approved previously of turning Gaza into a slaughterhouse. IMO this should be the end of the paper. They're cutting ties w/ her, and the Times didn't made an accompanying episode for this feature because of dissent w/in their ranks, but it's too little too late. The damage is done. Really exposed them for what they are - propagandists. The corporate media as a whole has been brazenly manipulative, which the Intercept has been doing a good job covering, e.g. - CNN running all stories thru an IDF censor and a broad-spectrum of corporate media using passive voice for Palestinian deaths but active for Israeli ones. You'd think having to constantly lie for a side would drive home their cause wasn't righteous.

    Finally, a US airman named Aaron Bushnell has self-immolated and died in front of the Israeli embassy to avoid participation in genocide and make a statement. I'd refuse duty for a criminal foreign country who uses their bodies for their own selfish desires, and take the prison sentence, not die for them anyway. But massive respect for this gentleman. Let's take down all the AIPAC-backed politicians and the criminal Israeli status quo too with BDS in his honor! Don't let him die in vain.
     
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  2. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    #12277 Umar, Feb 26, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2024
    If you recall, a lot of the “testimony” of the rapes and mutilations came from Zaka, a dubious organisation which uses tales of horrific acts to fundraise. Haaretz had an expose on their actions a few weeks ago which can be found here:

    https://archive.ph/2024.01.31-20482...its-role/0000018d-5a73-d997-adff-df7bdb670000

    Here’s Yossi Landau lying on TV to try and pull at the heartstrings of the public - his allegations of piles of dead babies and pregnant mothers killed with their umbilical cords cut out have since been found to be verifiably false.



    Zaka, and Yossi Landau in particular, are known to be liars and any stories using them as the source need to be looked at with the utmost scrutiny. Zaka was heavily indebted before the attacks, but raised millions of dollars in the immediate aftermath.

    Now we find that not only do certain media organisations not apply scrutiny to tales told by dubious sources, but they actively hire israeli intelligence personnel (former or active) to co-write their stories for them, like the New York Times did with Anat Schwartz.

    https://mondoweiss.net/2024/02/extr...merge-against-nytimes-reporter-anat-schwartz/
     
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  3. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The media scammed people initially on the motive of the airman's self-immolation too (before smearing him as mentally unwell):



    The Mossad official account also called the man - who wanted to die by his own hand instead of potentially while carrying out a genocide for their foreign country - "an enemy".

    This shouldn't surprise anyone who knows history. They think they are entitled to use American bodies any which way they please, even if it means murdering them so they can do it to more Arabs as well, while they "defend themselves" by taking more and more land/resources.

    https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/201...-hit-her/0000017f-e48c-d7b2-a77f-e78f76800000

    To add a little levity to a dark situation I guess, "America 1sters" think they're being patriotic by blindly supporting Israel, as Trump, and his supposed liberal nemesis Biden has as well. Just as LBJ had when he said he didn't want to embarrass an "ally" to save a few (300) servicemen aboard the USS Liberty.

    Fitting in the whole US media-Israeli genocide propaganda scheme, for over 15 years the Chicago Tribune had an article up about Israel's and LBJ's complicity in the USS Liberty bombing. During this onslaught on Gaza they've scrubbed it from their website.



    You can find it in the Wayback Machine though:

    https://web.archive.org/web/2023120...otribune.com/chi-liberty_tuesoct02-story.html

    You get more truth about Israel's crimes towards Arabs, the US, or the world in Israeli outlets because they know most of their citizens are trained not to care or even cheerlead it.
     
  4. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Wrong. It's very easy to find firsthand accounts online (not from those who were murdered obviously). Plus let's not forget that Hamas livestreamed their atrocities! Maybe you were fortunate to miss all the photos and footage of their dragging dead victims through Gaza streets?

    Since you are a Haaretz fan, here's a piece they wrote on the topic.
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...estimony/0000018c-2144-da36-a1de-6767dac90000

    I think you missed the point of the article about Zaka. It may be slamming Zaka, but it's not denying that atrocities. Only Zaka's abuse of them for fundraising purposes
     
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  5. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    #12280 Umar, Feb 26, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2024
    1. I specifically spoke about rapes and mutilations. No one here is denying that people were killed (which is terrible enough without having to lie about the circumstances to justify a genocidal response). There was no live-streaming of any mutilations or rapes, and nothing credible I have found from any independent source not linked to the israeli military or intelligence services.

    2. I cannot open your article but have seen the underlying allegations by Dr Cochav Elkayam-Levy. The reasons I do not find them to be credible are below, and that article you linked was written before the expose on Zaka in January which exposed them as peddling fraudulent claims:
    https://mondoweiss.net/2023/12/cnn-...s-some-with-undisclosed-ties-to-israeli-govt/

    3. The article I provided is certainly saying that many claims made by Zaka are outright falsehoods. They aren’t just saying the claims were used to raise funds. They are saying many claims were invented, and the invented claims were used to raise funds:

    By all means choose to believe these stories and the “67 samples of semen” crap and the story of the gang rape where the guy cut off the breasts of the victim and played with them, and any other stories that the pro israel people churn out to justify the genocidal attacks against the Gazans, but don’t expect people to believe this sort of nonsense without it being tested by credible independent experts.
     
  6. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    Max Blumenthal informed Cochav Elkayam-Levy that a photo she was using to prove Hamas raped israelis was in fact a photo of a Kurdish female fighter.

     
  7. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Okay, let's say everything coming out of Israel is a lie. What about the Hamas livestreams? What about the photos of female victims in the streets?

    Here are some recent articles without paywalls from media sources you may or may not find credible, given that they don't align with your beliefs.

    https://nypost.com/2024/02/21/world-news/hamas-shoved-knives-inside-israeli-rape-victims-report/
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tic-use-of-rape-by-hamas-in-7-october-attacks
    https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/0...s-detailed-in-new-report-on-october-7-attack/

    Here's the pertinent section from the article you couldn't read. You want documentation? There's plenty of it from many sources, and as you can see in the excerpt below, journalists have been involved in data collection:

    I mean, close your eyes and ears and sing la la la if that helps you stay in fantasy land. But if you can accept that these atrocities did happen -- as ample evidence demonstrates -- will you be able to show a modicum of sympathy for Israelis?
     
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  8. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Took a sanity break and I am only on 483 but every post by Puck has me like

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    Just go back to page 1.:D
     
  10. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    I maybe a crazy SOB but I ain't that crazy.
     
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  11. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
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    FC Steaua Bucuresti
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    #12286 waitforit, Feb 27, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2024
    You know people can google right?

    1. The "HUUUGE" scandal is about liking tweets not Mossad

    2. This has nothing to do with her being "military intelligence"

    As for her being an IDF "Airforce Intelligence" ....it is one guy. One guy an twitter said that. A screenshot of something that looks like wiki and no source.

    Every single website that are blogs masquerading as news websites is quoting the chip and dale twitter guy. Every single one. Find me one other source not quoting him:



    Also saying IDF Airforce Intelligence -not a thing - and then shortening to IDF intelligence is just trying really hard to make it seem she was Mossad

    Israeli Air Intelligence Group is the real thing. You would think people who worked there knew the actual name
     
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  12. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #12287 The Jitty Slitter, Feb 27, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2024
    So as usual we see that nazis running free in the GOP ranks is just not a narrative that the national press can be bothered with. Nor does it seem to outrage the American public, or indeed anyone here. There will be no calls to sack Matt Schlapp for having a jew hate convention.

    Just goes to show how right wing media sets these agendas. i can’t imagine the fall out at the CDU conference had people doing nazi salutes. just another day in america apparently

     
  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Schlapp's response perfectly illustrates how normalised these beliefs are on the right now. Any sane person would of course denounce the nazis but since "very fine people" they are a core part of the MAGA base so the nazis can't be criticised. Instead the faustian pact the American christian white nationalist movement has made is support for Israel and the far right elements of leadership there.

    Instead we see hard right Israeli ministers openly trashing Biden (a strong ally) and supporting Trump and his neo nazi party. We won't see any political pushback. Just like we saw the coddling of Musk despite him being the leading conduit for anti-semitism in the US.

    It seems a very bad decision for Israel and the Jewish people, and frankly such a slap in the face for the Biden admin which has gone above and beyond and great political cost.

    The only thing remotely similar over here is Hungary - of course the darling of the US right.
     
  14. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    Well, them and pre-Tusk Poland.
    And the current Prime Minister of Italy is a self-avowed Mussolini fangirl.
     
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  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    True I forgot about her.
     
  16. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    There are problems with some of the "mass rapes" stories, but you can't credibly argue that women weren't raped on 10/7: the physical evidence is too damning for that, and the people who committed those crimes need to be punished.

    And I wouldn't cite Max Blumenthal for anything.
     
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  17. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    co-signed
     
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  18. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
    One step ahead
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Palestine
    I haven’t seen any physical evidence which would stand up in court but I reiterate - I support the death penalty for all rapists, Hamas or otherwise.

    I know the issues with Blumenthal but he quite clearly shows that some of the evidence provided by that israeli lady was from atrocities done to Kurdish female fighters in earlier conflicts.

    I do not know how it is possible for any credible independent organisation to mix the two incidents up, unless they are just acting as a cipher for another organisation and aren’t checking anything. The question then would be who is feeding her the false photos.
     
  19. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Palestinians are people as well.
     
  20. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Without digging too far into the gruesome details, the documented physical evidence is more than enough to support the conclusion that women were raped.

    Cite someone else then. Syria genocide deniers, RT stooges, and Glenn Greendelwald are people to stay away from.

    Without knowing what specifically you're referring to, it's hard to comment. But there's been a ton of misinformation here and news organizations have given Israeli claims a level of credulity that they aren't giving Palestinians.
     
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  21. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    1762517009827340525 is not a valid tweet id


    As far as I can tell she hasn't made any remotely offensive statements. So this is 100% about her expressing support for Palestinians? Wow.
    Her father is literally from there. :confused:

    The breadth of acceptable expressions of support is thus thinner than paper.
     
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  22. Indeed. The last thing those true rape victims of the 7th of 10th can use is that their stories get doubted because of a bunch of scum try to benefit from making up things.
     
  23. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    I don't know how people feel about Jon Stewart, but there are some decent suggestions in there.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/jon...olution-israel-palestine-gaza-conflict-2024-2
    Jon Stewart says he has a solution to the Gaza conflict

    "Starting now, no preconditions, no earned trust, no partners for peace," Stewart said. "Israel stops bombing. Hamas releases the hostages. The Arab countries who claim Palestine is their top priority come in and form a demilitarized zone between Israel and a free Palestinian state."

    This NATO-like organization would involve Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, and Jordan guaranteeing "security for both sides," Stewart said. He dubbed the proposed organization "METO" — for "Middle East Treaty Organization" — and said both the name and his proposed pronunciation, which sounds like "me too," could be workshopped further.
     
  24. RafaLarios

    RafaLarios Member+

    Oct 2, 2009
    Medellín
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I agree with Jon, however, I think Israel won't accept a METO only with those countries guaranteeing security equally for both sides.
     
  25. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    +1

    Even allowing for fog of war and some propaganda, 1000s of people directly witnessed the events of 10/7 - the facts are evident and become clearer as time goes on. Sadly I guess like 9/11 conspiracies will swirl around it.
     
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