Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Cascarino's Pizzeria, Oct 7, 2023.

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  1. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Midterms are approaching
     
  2. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And I really wonder if this was the actual game plan of Hamas all along. Not that of the grunts who are doing the dirty work and dying, mind you, but the leaders who are relatively untouchable.

    It would be a pretty smart plan, do a brutal hit-and-run attack that prompts Israel to take drastic action, then sit back while Israel retaliates and let their actions and social media reporting those actions turn the world against them even more than they were already.
     
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  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
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    I suspect it's less strategic than that, as the Oct 7 attack rallied massive support for Israel. But i do agree that they might now see it that way now
     
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  4. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

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    Petaluma
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    Temporarily, sure, but it would’ve been a solid bet that that wouldn’t last once Israel started retaliating.
     
  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Bayern München
    Germany
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    I'm in the camp that doubts Hamas expected the attack to be such a "catastrophic success"

    ETA - the trouble with wars is they end up with their own twisted logic.
     
  6. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    I'm sure Hamas expected some retaliation, maybe even more than what we've seen in 2021, but probably not on the scale we've seen. With that said, the "social network" component was always part of their strategy. The more the better. That aspect of "digital" warfare was without a doubt part of their plan. The fact that they haven't released most of the hostages yet is playing in their favor. Nobody expects them to do the "right" thing, certainly not Gazans and certainly not the greater West, so the more damage IDF causes, the more "martyr-like" they look. Of course IDF is also helping them in that regard, but I think the viciousness of the 10/7 attack is still the driving force behind the decisions of the Netanyahu government.
     
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  7. There are analyses that claim the response Israel/idf has unfolded has a deterrence charge in it to show enemies to what level they're prepared to go to. "Any means we have at our disposal will be used to destroy you".
    The rethorics used in the in here viled social media posts might in that way play a role of psychological warfare, portraying yourself as a murderous bunch that has no moral limits, as part of that deterrence strategy.
     
  8. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Of course, the situation is complicated by Palestinian 'hostages', as many of the Palestinians refer to them, (prisoners as the Israelis call them, obviously), held by Israel, many of them in administrative detention without trial, often for years.

    I think it's like a lot of things in this dispute.

    If we accept the narrative from one side, (the Israelis in this instance), the position is very simple but if we're prepared to at least consider the other side, it gets more complex.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_prisoners_in_Israel

    I don't know how this matter can be sorted out but I'd suggest it's not QUITE as simple as saying the hostages should be set free as a 'standalone' statement with no reference to a wider agreement.

    Having said that, of course, they should be set free.
     
  9. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    In all honesty I think most of the conversations in this forum were more intelligent and more enlightening than THAT exchange.
     
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  10. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    There are also many more that have been injured, many significantly and from which they might die and even THAT'S not including the ones that might die from malnutrition or disease.

    It wouldn't surprise me if we ended up with over 100,000 dead Palestinians at the end of this. Hope I'm wrong, obviously :(

    I wonder if we'll be allowed to call it the 'G' word then?
     
  11. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I understand what you're saying and I agree to an extent but the problem is that seems to imply that the Israelis HAVE to massively overreact to any provocation.
     
  12. https://www.voxy.co.nz/national/fam...ts-1-1-million-children-face-starvation/9892/
    ‘Families forced to forage food left by rats, 1.1 million children face starvation’
    Families in Gaza are forced to forage for scraps of food left by rats and eating leaves out of desperation to survive with nearly five months of war and rapidly declining aid supplies leaving all 1.1 million children in Gaza facing starvation, Save the Children said.

    An aid worker for Save the Children who is currently in Rafah said her relatives in northern Gaza have been driven to desperate measures to survive
    .

    I read a few days ago a poster claiming Israel is supplying food.
    So "Save the Children" are a bunch of liars and most likely hamas friends.
     
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  13. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

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    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
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    Not HAVE to, but likely to. And the sheer brutality and depravity of the 10/7 attack made it much more likely. If it had been a simple military attack that would be one thing, but widespread rape and torture of civilians is quite another, and much more likely to result in an extreme response.
     
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  14. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

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  15. chad

    chad Member+

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  16. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

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  17. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    This is beyond depressing and tragic.
     
  18. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    Well, here's what Bibi has proposed for "the day after." In the words of Jenna Jameson, that's quite a lot to swallow.

     
  19. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
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    looks like the US is going to propose its own UN ceasefire

     
  20. celito

    celito Moderator
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    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
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    "As soon as practical" .... very strong words ... :rolleyes:
     
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  21. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
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    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
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    I was about to point that out. Also the comment about the hostages being released. This simply the administration attempting to say “we tried”
     
  22. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
  23. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Ask for the impossible and then say the other side are being unreasonable when they say no.
     
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