Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Cascarino's Pizzeria, Oct 7, 2023.

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  1. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    He was not talking about Palestinians though. He was talking about the Arab, Bedouin, Christian…citizens of Israel. As far as your gaslighting comment, I agree that it gets very annoying.
     
  2. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Oh, so everyone is equal but some people are a little more equal than others. Presumably in the same way that Englishmen, Frenchman and Germans could ALL move about freely in apartheid era south Africa... just not the black ones.

    Oh yeah, that's totally different.
     
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  3. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    THIS.... The gaslighting is spreading here as well....Insane.
     
  4. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Im listening to the Pogues over coffee.
     
  5. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #7130 Naughtius Maximus, Dec 3, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2023
    In the long run this will be bad for Israel as people are just waking up to the fact that the arguments used to support them among our leaders are mostly bullshit. Of course, some of us have known it for a long time but now others are just beginning to realise it, particularly the young.
     
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  6. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Horrible isn’t it.
     
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  7. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    A flat statement that "any Palestinian can go anywhere in Israel" clearly is, as you put it, "nonsense".

    Then again, in your own post the guy doesn't say that and is very obviously talking about Israel and the Arabs who live in it, not Arabs from Gaza or the West Bank.
    It's true that Arabs in Israel have increasingly come to be referred to as Palestinians or "Palestinians in Israel" over the last 20 years or so, as opposed to Israeli Arabs as before, but to state that he was talking about Palestinians who don't live in Israel is, well, gaslighting.
     
  8. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    A sad loss, that guy. Born near Tunbridge Wells, IIRC.
     
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  9. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    A smile only a mother could love. Definitely a sad loss.
     
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  10. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I quoted the article which said that he stated...

    'If you go to Israel, I promise you, at a shop or restaurant, everybody goes to any place they want.'

    It doesn't seem to say everybody except for blah, blah, blah, does it so I'm not sure what you're on about, tbh. The phrase 'everybody' would seem to include... well, everybody.

    Unless you can point me at something I've missed?

    Frankly, it's irrelevant anyway. We can all see what the situation is so quite why I have to be guided as to the situation from some fella who visited for 5 days I'm not sure.

    As it happens I've known several Israelis over the years and the idea they ALL accept that line is just a lie.
     
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  11. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    #7136 The Irish Rover, Dec 3, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2023
    If a foreigner who's visited America says that there's no apartheid in America because
    'If you go to America, I promise you, at a shop or restaurant, everybody goes to any place they want.'
    it's pretty perverse to suggest that there is apartheid in America because some people, Costa Ricans say, who aren't US citizens or permanent residents haven't been given visa or entry permits.

    Happy to be of help, even if it's only to state the obvious.
     
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  12. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Indeed. Including quoting Toni Morrison.
     
  13. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Don't forget the ears!

    He was a legend regardless. Him getting to 65 is like the average bloke getting to 105

     
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  14. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Look at the first sentence in his post.

    Of course he left out the issues on the other side. He also didn’t mention the Houston Dynamo, because he stayed on topic.

    You’re revealing your preferences again.
     
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  15. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In fairness to Deadtigers, I don’t think, based on his posts in this thread and elsewhere, that he’s anti Semitic. I think he is blindly seeing this conflict as colonialism. That’s why his posts are jacked up, because he misunderstands what he’s talking about,
     
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  16. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Oh, so to clarify, this comes back to the fact that the Israelis aren't including ALL of the land over which they exercise control, only the bits they WANT to include and not ALL of the people over whose lives they have control, just the ones they WANT to include.

    Maybe the south Africans missed a trick there.

    They should have said that blacks can go anywhere in south Africa except the bits they can't go where the white ones live and by white we mean only the people we deem to be white.

    Yeah, that would have been better. No way could THAT be said to be apartheid :)

    Also, maybe the white supremacists in America are missing a trick because they could just deem America to be the bits the white people occupy not those other people... you know the ones ;) :)
     
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  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Okay.

    Victory will be if Hamas can no longer pull off a similar attack.
     
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  18. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    As far as I know, technically he is right because in Israel, Israeli Arabs (or Israeli Palestinians) can go anywhere, hold Gov. jobs, run for office. That isn't to say there isn't systemic racism as in many (maybe most) other countries. The restriction of movement applies to Palestinians in the occupied territories that is not officially Israel. That's what makes the situation complicated to explain specially because of the Palestinian enclaves in the West Bank. In essence, you could say Israel is applying a type Apartheid outside of Israel although I've seen claims of it also being applied somewhat inside of Israel with some codified laws (but I haven't looked into that). The situation is even a bit more complicated in Hebron where the city has been basically partitioned limiting movement which is where some of the documentaries about Apartheid have been made (although that case is more of an exception than the case across the territory AFAIK).
     
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  19. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    So, never then.
     
  20. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    Jitty meant what Gaza will look like following the victory. Both in practical terms but also its status going forward.
     
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  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nothing in his post was about morality. You put the word “evil” out there, not him.

    Why? Seriously, why?
     
  22. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yeah, like I said in the follow up post, they're just 'deeming' it not to be Israel but then, if the west bank ISN'T Israel, why are they still building settlements there? Why are they still exercising control over the people that live there? Why are still carving ever greater slices of Palestinian land off so what remains becomes not viable?

    Like I say, they want to control but they don't want any of the responsibility.
     
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  23. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah,that to me is a far more interesting discussion.

    If Israel has any plans at all about what the day after victory will look like, or what the next steps will be, I sure as hell don’t know what they are.
     
  24. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In other words, it’s not at all like Northern Ireland.

    QED
     
  25. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Wow, we have a twofer. Whitesplaining and the SD stamp of "not an amti-semite" :rolleyes:
     
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