Hamas Attacks, Israel Responds

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Cascarino's Pizzeria, Oct 7, 2023.

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  1. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    I honestly think they do not know. But as I said above, one of the reasons to minimize it is to have more reasons to continue with Southern Gaza operation. If they claim they killed 1/2 or 2/3 of Hamas fighters, there's less reason to continue to expand the operation beyond Northern half. All that said, I do not think they know and the 2k number might be some concrete count of those they know to be "official" Hamas fighters.
     
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  2. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He did say it way back, but it was more along the lines of somebody coming up with an absurdly extreme hypothetical and him not backing off from it.
     
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  3. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for the explanation.

    The urban nature of this war, and the fact that Hamas is both an insurgency AND a government likely exacerbates matters.

    I do think the Israels made a mistake going in with a goal of totally destroying/degrading Hamas; how do they back down from that if they come to realize that Hamas has deeper roots/is harder to completely destroy than they hoped?
     
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  4. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
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    United States
    Real-time war casualty numbers are really hard to get right. When the Bosnian War--which was heavily covered--ended in 1995, it was widely agreed that over 200,000 people had been killed during the war. In the end, it turned out to be roughly half that.
     
  5. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
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    United States
    You don't accept his contention that he was replying in kind to what he saw as an absurd hypothetical? Every other post he's written is in line with that.

    I don't agree with him fully on the rightness or wrongness of how the IDF is fighting this war, but I don't see him seriously giving a potential genocide the stamp of approval.
     
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  6. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Unless it was prior to Friday night, you will not find the post since it does not exist. As moderators we are able to see and read all deleted content. Since Friday this thread had four deleted posts. Two were deleted by the posters themselves, one by a moderator as it was in the wrong thread and the fourth was again by a moderator for a personal attack.

    @luftmensch clarified what actually was posted. Definitely not what the accusation stated it was
     
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  7. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
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    United States
    The firebombing of Tokyo killed maybe 100,000 people over a couple of days of bombing. 14,000 in two months pales in comparison. Saying the death toll in Giza is particularly remarkable ignores a lot of history of warfare. If Israel really didn’t care about civilian casualties, the death toll might be 10 times as much.

    We’ve been living in a period of relative peace. I fear that’s probably ending, and we’re going to be seeing a lot more dead civilians, as urban warfare will become the norm.
     
  8. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nope not buying it one second. The comment was unequivocal.
     
  9. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was 3 weeks ago. I guess you got your facts wrong.
     
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  10. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I guess you missed the part of my post at the very beginning where it said “unless it was prior to Friday”. I guess you got your reading comprehension wrong.
     
  11. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Indeed. I guess in turn you missed the post from 3 weeks ago. Are you sure you didn't "like" it?
     
  12. There were 3 or 4 posters liking it.
     
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  13. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I never said I didn’t like it did I? I liked his comment, not the make believe version you thought you read.
     
  14. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok...what part did you like? The wipe Gaza?
     
  15. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    He didn’t say that though
     
  16. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We are not talking about the same one then...
     
  17. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    When you have to go all the way back to WWII with its dumb weapons as a comparison, you're losing IMO
     
  18. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Particularly as many consider the fire bombings of Tokyo and, perhaps more so, Dresden as war crimes.
     
  19. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    What kind of conspiracy theorist is admits that it was a lie. You're supposed to say it goes deeper and they are more powerful people at play keeping things from being known.
     
  20. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Rationalising stuff because we firebombed 'the nazis' is where we have got to
     
  21. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    Firebombing of Tokyo and Allied bombing of Dresden are two events that killed more civilians in a shorter period of time but perhaps you have also noticed that they are now largely regarded as war crimes?
     
  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Biden will get zero credit for this ceasefire, despite everyone on the left demanding one
     
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  23. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Memphis Belle wasn't a documentary?
     
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  24. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    The idea that genocide in Gaza is hypothetical is certainly false. The following Time magazine article delves into the difficulties. It seems acts of genocide may have been committed in this war. it is also clear some members of Israeli leadership harbour the idea to drive all Gazans out which might spell the end of the Palestinian nation

    Many experts TIME spoke to noted that they were answering based on whether they believed that the actions against Palestinians would be considered genocide under a court of law.

    Verdeja says Israel's actions in Gaza are moving toward a “genocidal campaign.” While he notes that it is clear Israeli forces intend to destroy Hamas, “the response when you have a security crisis…can be one of ceasefire, negotiation, or it can be genocide.”

    David Simon, director of the genocide studies program at Yale University, says that Israel has only explicitly said they want to exterminate Hamas, and has not directly stated intent to “destroy a religious, ethnic or racial group.” Simon says it's possible a court could conclude that either Hamas or some elements of the Israel Defense Force (IDF) could be found guilty of committing an act of genocide, but “it's certainly not textbook in that connecting the intent to destroy ethnic group as such is difficult.”

    All scholars who spoke to TIME say that it is much more likely that both Hamas and some Israeli officials could be found guilty of crimes against humanity. Kiernan notes that the groups were more likely to be found guilty of extermination, which “does not require proof of a perpetrator's conscious desire to destroy a group ‘as such.’”

    https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/
     
  25. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    But, but...

    Tell us how this is BAD for Joe Biden.
     
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