Not necessarily true. I have found that the worst players are usually playing co-ed leagues. Now, while the co-ed leagues are usually slower and less competitive, the less-skilled players are less skilled at all parts of the game, that includes tackling. I have seen a lot more shoving matches and injuries take place in co-ed leagues than in all-female or all-male leagues. My legs take a lot more punishment in co-ed leagues than in men's league. I honestly don't mind playing with women/girls on my team, but playing against them (especially college-age ones) is a different story. Some of them expect to be held to a different standard, and they get mad when they get tackled hard but fair by men. I have seen girls throw punches and fits in my league over getting tackled hard.
In our coed league we divided the teams into divisions based on skill levels, then relegated and promoted every season. When I was in charge of the league we took a good look at infractions and discipline and it in our case, the majority of the cards and what we considered "violent conduct" occurred in the lower leagues. After observing some of the games, it was pretty obvious that it was usually due to inexperience in tackling and defensive tactics.
Originally Posted by ranova Re: ctsoccer13's post, it is consistent with my experience playing in open and coed leagues. Generally the women players willing to take the field with men are the better skilled and experienced players. But they are less tolerate of careless fouls than younger men. My experince has been that most young men do not believe in their own mortality and thus take greater risks. As men age avoiding injury becomes a higher priority and they are less willing to risk injury to themselves or others. If this is regards to coed soccer i could agree, but competative soccer, i think youll find they go in just as hard if not harder than when they were young. If you dont go hard you go home simple's
Also, being as im am about to embark on a journey to usa for about three months hopefully longer, i have been very intrigued by this coed thing, asaforementioned we dont tend to do that in England. Well except with one of my friends sister who plays like pro in england, she was good, but as mentioned the speed and strength of us was a little bit too much, not that she didnt show flashes of class that is. I would love to see what its like playing coed having played good level soccer here i would love to see what the ladies are like over there, i mean, the average male soccer player is better than the average male soccer player over there, and obviously the females have the same with regards to our female soccer players, so should be interesting. Although when men play sports, they do get aggressive, regardless of how good the females are so when you say, as soon as they see that she has a bit about her they tackle harder. Yeah they prob do but that may be more down to the fact that they see that she is good and so they can maybe get more competative with them. O and with regards to what the gentleman who got a talking to from the moderator said about height and strength and speed is what scouts look for, that is unfourtunately true, i mean unless you stand out technically of course that is what they go for. Look at Agbonlahor, did have a shit touch but boy hes fast, they can teach you everything else, also if your a good athelete you will find that coordination and agility etc etc are all part and parcel of the term athelete i have never seen an athelete in the olympics who fell arse over head cos he was fast but couldnt co ordinate his feet in time!
Originally Posted by ranova My experince has been that most young men do not believe in their own mortality and thus take greater risks. As men age avoiding injury becomes a higher priority and they are less willing to risk injury to themselves or [/B][/SIZE]others[/SIZE].[/SIZE][/SIZE][/B][/B] If this is regards to coed soccer i could agree, but competitive soccer, i think youll find they go in just as hard if not harder than when they were young. If you dont go hard you go home simple's. That was the full quote as it were, so i was saying, with regards to men not wanting to injure themselves or others. The only way you injure yourself (with out the obvious ways like some smashing you from behind etc etc) as I have found playing in the English leagues is when you bottle out of challenges, if two people slide for the ball in a 50/50 and clash the likely hood of some one getting injured is greatly increased if they didnt go in hard enough. There is fair play and foul and the difference has got nothing to do with playing hard or to win. That statement is very true there is fair play and there is foul play as it were, Two players smashing each other in a 50/50 is fair play in England, whereas dragging your opponent down when hes through n goal is considerd foul play. Now if we are talking about coed leagues here i don't for one second condone going in hard as you can on someone, especially as its non competitive soccer. I was mearly talking about my experiences in MENS SOCCER IN ENGLAND not coed leagues in USA. Which are if you don't go in tackle hard in mens football and you bottle it or go in light footed you will end up getting injured. I have seen some very bad injuries when playing in Senior level mens leagues from the ages of 16 to now. I have always been told if you dont go hard against players with regards to tackles, you go home, as in either go home now or you'll be going home with an injury later on. So I wasn't really sure what you were getting at. I am in no way condoning playing nasty especially in coed leagues (not that i know much about them) but certainly in mens soccer in England you must give hundred percent in every tackle, no two ways about it. Also going in hard over here is considered to be showing your team mates and fans that you have a passion to win games so smashing your opponent as you tackle them (legally of course) like mascherano, etc etc do is showing the fans hey look we want to win this game as much as you and also sets an example for the players. But its not considered foul play. Its is strangely enough a contact sport.
What I call hard play and you call hard tackling are two different things. My meaning of hard play is about giving a 100 percent effort, not smashing opponents "legally." FIFA Law 12 makes a careless challenge foul play. Certainly different refs will interpret careless differently but refs usually will call fouls tighter when a bigger player tackles a smaller player. Big players have to put up with a lot of shoving and hacking without retaliating in kind against a smaller marker. I am sure that you have seen this double standard before. In a coed game here in the USA a male player trying to intimidate opponents through "hard" challanges is going to see yellow sooner than later, and rightly so imo.
Yes and rightly so...im am not aruguing for hard tackles in oced soccer, (i havent even played coed soccer, we don have that in england) yes i have seen that double standard before, just as you will see in European competitions English clubs take the ball and the man, nothing wrong with that, its aprt and parcel of the game. Its not intimidation at all especially not in the pro leagues, or any other league for that matter, I have seen big players called up for a foul when if that player was alittle bit bigger it would have been legal. I am in no way condoning violent play, im just saying that it is a contact sport and you should expect to be hit as it where when you get tackled its part and parcel of the game. I am in no way saying we should do this, if you refer back to my original post If this is regards to coed soccer i could agree, but competitive soccer, i think youll find they go in just as hard if not harder than when they were young. If you dont go hard you go home simple's. I am saying i have never seen a player back out of a challenge if they think they are going to hurt someone, especially not the older players, they play rough and they tackle hard, part of the game. If its a 50/50 go in hard, if the guy is trying to head the ball and you volleyed his head, quite rightly the ref should blow for a foul and card the offending player.
you mentioned you might play coed while here in the states. if you're used to competitive or a higher level of play, it will take some getting used to. for coed soccer, there is almost always some quirky change to the rules. e.g., in the coed leagues where i've played, sliding and slide tackles are not allowed. and since coed is almost always recreational, the skill level is often going to be low--in that regard, i find it's unnecessary to win many 50-50 balls--just sit back a couple of yards and play the mis-trap. i've said before, the worst thing about coed isn't the women. the worst thing is that it's often recreational--so a good number of players (both men and women alike) have no idea what they're doing, and that makes it more dangerous. you're right that soccer is a contact sport, but there's contact and then there's contact. (also... assuming you're from the uk... you should note that the healthcare system here is different--unless you have health insurance, treatment for injuries may not be as simple a matter as in the uk.)
Thanks for the tips on the coed soccer, which in fairness i was just after all along. As i keep saying im NOT going to go in hard, i understand the rules of the no tackling the ladeis and its just recreational. I was just saying that you cant generalise the older soccer players with regards to how hard they tackle. But thanks Snolly g, all i wanted was a little info on coed so thank you.
i think your point should be taken by everyone. older players can definitely play as hard (as well as be as wreckless) as younger players. i should probably count myself an older player, and i know for certain that i don't ease up in more competitive games. it's just as true that you shouldn't ever go in half-committed. playing with trepidation means your body (and body parts) aren't all moving in the same/right direction, which creates opportunity for serious injury. anyhow, good luck.
i like coed for the fact that no slide tackling is allowed, which keeps you on your feet. you rely a whole lot less on being physical and more on technical skills. instead of barreling into someone with a slide tackle which in many cases i find to be the easiest route, it forces you to practice containment and quality stand-up defense. i also like coed for the fact that its still a competitive game but more reliant on tactical team decisions and technical skill....i mainly started playing in the coed league because ive been rehabilitating a bad knee injury, and didnt want worry about injuring again during rehabilitation with an overly physical tackle or leg swiping slide tackle. But i found it to force me to rely less on my physical strength (im 6'3, 220 pounds, not fat, and work out at gym consistantly....ive been told multiple times i look more like a football (american) player than a soccer player) and LOVE of slide tackling (boy do i love getting in a good, physical, yet all-ball slide tackle), and keep me on my feet and work on quality containment... then again, I am only a weekend player and a gimped one at that for now...trust me once my knee is 100 percent better ill be itching to play men's full field (the co-ed fields are shorter and only 8v8) and be able to use my weight and physicality, but the no slide tackling rules of coed i have found to be helpful in negating my size and forcing me to rely on technical skills rather than physicality. i have yet to deal with girls playing especially dirty or rough and getting favorable treatment....maybe thats because they dont want to mess with someone that weighs 60 to 90 pounds more than them lol....actually, i have found the girls in my coed league to be quite quality players...many of them seem to be very tactically minded and smart on the field with good vision and good accuracy. sure, none of them have the power or physicality of any guy on the field, but ive seen some very nice passes and setups for goals as well as very accurate shooting.
excuse me, i guess i should i have said OTHER technical abilities BESIDES sliding tackles. yes i agree....im not saying theres no technique in sliding tackles, but i will say i see sliding tackles being performed quite a bit as a last resort because the defender had been beaten standing up (perhaps if the defender had better positioning or containment of the player they wouldnt need to slide tackle?). What I am also saying is not allowing sliding tackles forces the player to utilize moreso their stand up tackles and containment abilities. If you cant get that extra reach with a sliding tackle, then you are forced to up your level of defensive containment and positioning. trust me, i understand there definitely is an art to the sliding tackle, and I love the feeling of a clean sliding tackle....im just saying for me, personally, not having the ability to slide tackle has forced me to improve my stand up containment, defensive positioning, and standing tackle abilities.
I totally agree with you on the whole containment tactic but it was the way you worded it made it seem to me that sliding tackles aren't technical, or as technical as other aspects of the game. I think we tend to see slide tackles more now as players are getting faster and fitter, so i think yes it can be seen as a last resort, but i think in many occasions its simply the brilliance of the attacker to get him self away from the defenders so the covering defender/midfielder has no choice but to slide tackle, like i said not down to the defenders having been incompetent, but more to with the attacker being brilliant. Hey I guess i just misunderstood your point that's all. What position you play?
oh i def. agree on you on your points about slide tackling. i did not mean to sound as if i think slide tackling is not technical. many a time in this coed league i found my self beaten a half step just because i have to turn to keep up with a fast and formidable attacker, and thought "i could totally get a NICE slide tackle in right now" but forced myself instead to make up that half step and contain the attacker. i guess the no slide tackle rule is forcing me to get a step faster at sprinting as well! sort of like when you have practices where everyone must 1 or 2 touch scrimmages, makes for good pass practice....taking out an ability helps you on other abilities. anywho, i played left forward from age 5 to highschool. now, i alternate between left forward and left back. im left footed, and there are a bunch of people on the team who want to be attackers, so ive been dropping back on defense here and there, which actually ive been finding a fun position to play. since i was never really a defender before its a challenge for me to play, especially without the slide tackling. thats why i brought up having the no slide tackle rule has forced me to work on positioning, containment, and standing tackles. i was never great at mid-field since my running stamina is somewhat lacking. forward, you can take a breather here and there, defense you have time to breath when your team's attackers are doing their job, but i gotta hand it to midfielders....you are constantly working!!
agree "dirty" play doesn't happen often. but "lack of technique" happens quite a bit in the more casual leagues--e.g., girls just throwing their bodies into you, making no play for the ball. but even that isn't all bad. there was one game where i was shielding the ball, my back to the player. she decided that the best way to the ball was to go through me, so she basically humped me, er, bumped me from behind.
hahaha yah that happened to me allot. i guess girls do throw their weight around on you but its definitely not as bad as when a big burly dood is doing it lol... actually one time a girl totally and blatantly fouled me but i barely felt it and she was on the ground for a while. i felt bad, yet i hadn't done anything to cause it.... another time, i was standing still, wainting to head a ball in the air....a girl i did not see ran from behind/side of me, jumped, and headbutted me in the back of the head right when i was heading the ball! DONK...she was on the ground holding her head, i barely felt it. i thought another ball from another field hit me in the head lol..... like i said, im usually 60-80 pounds bigger than the girls, its their choice if they want to throw their bodies into me....its just the odds are definitely in my favor lol...i never play over physical with girls, but if they do with me they end up taking a bit of a chance... i would say those girls might not be as good as others, or perhaps were used to playing in all girl leagues where they were some of the bigger players on the field and used to playing physical. but i will say i definitely have been juked, picked, and had passes stolen from me by girls. the league i played in definitely had a wide spectrum of ability levels, so sometimes there were girl players obviously more skilled than some guy players. lots of ex highschool players now in their twenties/thirties (that being me) and some ex college players. im unfortunately out for a league or 2 this year tho because of my MCL injury....(theres 3 leagues a year) anywho...tangent lol
I'm playing coed for the firs time this spring, and the worst fouls I've taken have all been from women. Somewhat unexpected.
I play in an adult COED league, most of the girls out there are better than I am. I'm really not that good, so its not saying much. Last game I bumped into one of the girls and got the "eww..he is sweaty!" remark. Another girl on their team yelled at her, "Calm down, we all are!" I just had a chuckle at that one. It is a rec league, no slide tackling.
I've never seen a good reason to slide tackle in the avg league game, coed or otherwise. If they get past you and score, then you just score back. I've never seen regular league games go 0-0 to the point that everyone is defending impeccably--even in a playoff game. Most games will end 5-3, or 4-1. Usually a high number of goals. Besides, if you slide, and you don't know what you're doing, you're likely to hurt yourself as much as the other player. In my experience (which isn't so much, or anything) every time I've been slide tackled it has hurt. The ball has never been won cleanly, if at all, and all you get is just bruises on your legs and scrapes on your elbows, and you get very angry at the guy that did it (and I won't even mention the odd, bumbling, attacker that just drives into your leg or falls on top of you). It's not really worth it.
I could not disagree more. I have seen plenty of good slide tackles in ordinary recreational games with players of all ages. I have seen a 5 y.o. girl and a 70 y.o. man make sensational and safe slide tackles. I have seen adult rec games with as many as 30 or 40 fair and safe slide tackles. Most games are played without even a yellow card being issued. Don't get me wrong. We don't tolerate dangerous play. I don't want anyone on the field that would make even a yellow card tackle much less a straight red, slide or otherwise. But there is nothing wrong with letting the rest of us play the game as intended.
So you're telling me that out of 30-40 slides in every game NO ONE has gotten hurt? I find that hard to believe. Not even the pros can have such a perfect record. You must be either: 1) playing with very slow attackers that no one has miss-timed a slide because the attacker was faster than them 2) playing in the most perfect of soccer fields (and weather) that you don't get burned by sliding, or get dirt and rocks scratching all over your leg or 3) grossly exaggerating the perfection of your league and sliding.