I thought that this topic was serious enough to warrant its own thread so please don't merge it mods. I have seen many poor officiating jobs over the years, starting with the NASL and into MLS and I don't think I can recall a ref who was a bigger incompetent SOB than this AYSO reject. He failed to play the advantage rule, missed the red card on the "last man" tackle from behind and generally played with his whistle every chance he got. The official is there to keep the peace and enforce the rules,not just the ones he likes and not to become part of the play of the game and influence the outcome. This might just be an all time low for MLS refs, the absolute worst i have ever had the misfortune to witness.
Interesting that when we see an MLS ref who is really lousy, we say, "This is the worst refereeing I have ever seen," and then MLS proves us wrong and the next week gives us someone who is even worse. Amazing.
I was about to snap tonight, and i would have if that SOB had prevented the quakes from winning with his horrible calls. I kept thinking he could not get any worse but he did. I was wondering if there could be any way for a mass petition to be sent to mls officials requesting that this a$$ not officiate another earhquakes game at least at home. If i worked for the earthquakes I would try to make an edited tape of all of the horrible calls that this joke made tonight and send it to whoever is in charge of selecting the MLS refs. Wasn't the ref that went to the world cup as a line judge a line judge tonight? It makes me mad that he didn't beat up that moron at half time and go back on the field with a shiny swim cap on his head.
He was an equal opportunity crap ref ... had no idea what he was doing, but I'm not convinced he was more crap for the Quakes. Ekelund should have been sent off when he made that violent arm gesture from a coupla feet away at the ref after getting a yellow ... from our angle, it actually looked like Ronnie was throwing a haymaker at the guy, although that can't be true, so I'm assuming it was more benign than that, but nonetheless, it was the best example among far too many of how the match had gotten completely out of the ref's control.
He got booed off the field, twice. Unless he really likes pain, doubt he'll be back. Exciting game, and if you can't complain about the ref, what can you complain about? Political corruption? War? Corporate greed?
Agreed...the main reasons I merged your postgame thread last week: 1. Even though you put an [R] in the title, your thread title gave away the result (because it was a direct comment about a player's performance)...this thread title does not. 2. Same topic was already being discussed in the postgame thread. I have never screamed more at a ref than last night. He was obviously predisposed to not give Landon anything. I seriously doubt this a-hole could keep an AYSO match under control.
Isn't that the truth! Hard to believe these guys get called back to ref. Gus St. Silva put in his bid for all-time low last night. Unbelievable number of poor calls, and in the first half at least, the vast majority went against the Quakes. Last man back taking out an attacker is a red card in any book. Was there even a card on that play? (Was that McCarty's first yellow?) I was at the wrong end of the first-half Busch play on Donovan in the box, but it sure looked like a takedown. Earlier, Barrett was properly carded for striking back at Jeff Cunningham after the latter lowered his shoulder into Wade and blindsided him away from the ball as Barrett was trying to spring back to defend. Cunningham definitely deserved a yellow as well. And St. Silva just guessed (incorrectly) that Ramiro picked off that second-half ball with his hand. There's no way he could have seen that, as I had a very clear view of Corrales intercepting the ball with his foot. Instead of the Quakes going right in on the Columbus goal, the Crew tied the match fifteen seconds later. That's a game-altering miscall. The play that Ekelund found so objectionable was a terrible call as well, though I can't recall the specifics. I do remember thinking that Ronnie's beef with the ref, though a bit excessively expressed, was legit. Not a highlight reel performance by St. Silva, and I hope the league takes a very close look at this one. Can it be that we really don't have any better refs in this country?
Ekelund received the yellow BECAUSE he made the arm gesture. It was a sort of pounding the table type gesture without the table. Afterwards Gus tilted his head briefly as if to say, "You shouldn't have done that, now I have to card you." The card was deserved, but it's a shame that his poor refereeing was making the players so frustrated. I've never seen Ronnie so heated.
This is the true problem..refs are supposed to facilitate, not make things worse...all players want is a fair, evenly reffed game that is CONSISTENT and that consitency also goes from game to game. I think in the MLS the refs are too whistle happy, try to be in charge in a too harsh way, and therefore seem to to be the centre of attention...Well, I have news for the refs..I pay to see players not them!!! What has been noticible this year is that more players who have reputation for being even tempered are getting cards for dissent and frustration..Like McBride and Ronnie last night..this is the true indication that refs are failing. An interesting observation from my wife, who had really started to watch the English Premiership with me..."I don't really notice the refs as much as I do in MLS"...now..before I get sledged, becasue some of the English refs are awful (look at Graeme Poll in the world cup and compare what a bad job he did compared the good one Brian Hall did), and they are professionals, so in a way its unjust to compare the two..but thats how it should be, like any good "manager" should be in the background making things run smoothly. If we want soccer to succeed in the US ad the MLS in particular, the quality of officaiting HAS to improve.. Another issue I have, is that ther refs see to be harder on the "named players", cuch as the world Cup squad...look at Donovan and how many times he's been fouled and not got calls , or two of the last home games now, players should have been send off for things they did against him (Prideaux and Clark), and even McBride ( I didn't see the game last night, but the balance off calls certainly went against him, and thats been the case in the games I've seen him play), its like the refs don't want to be upstaged by the "superstars". Its killing the game...its why Donavan gets frustrated, why he tries to get calls, because he isn't going to get them on his own... I think thats enough venting for now..its pissed me off and i didn't even see the game!! Must be bad! -Richard
Apparently from how the Crew radio PBP was calling it, the Crew got lucky with some of the decisions by the ref. The same guy was also wondering pretty much when the Quakes were going to break out the chainsaws and pickaxes to use on McBride. Apparently McBride was almost "laughing" at how much abuse he was taking without more stern action from Gus.
Landon's not getting the love from refs It was right in front of me. I thought it was a clear PK. The ball's pushed past the goalie, still in play, Landon's moving to it, the goalie knocks his legs out from under him. PK, red card. From where I was, just as blatant as the breakaway where Landon was hacked down from behind. However, Landon earned a yellow just last week (right?) for a blatant dive. Refs aren't going to give him the benefit of the doubt after that swan dive. I'm sorta happy to see Donovan punished for diving. Diving's horrible for soccer. One other thing I haven't seen in the threads lately- Landon got a ton of calls last year that maybe he shouldn't have. He was real easy to knock off the ball and frequently got calls just because he was so light and went flying from the slightest contact. Maybe this year the refs are overcompensating for last year.
St. Silva may have just had a bad game. He's one of the more inconsistant refs in the league. One question you all may be able to help with: Do you think the size of the field in SJ makes officiating more difficult? Is the ref's view of the play blocked more often with the smaller field being more crowded? If so, that (while not being a wholesale excuse) may be why you all seem to get spotty refs on a consistant basis. JMac
He had a clear view of both times Donovan got knocked over by the last defender on the way to goal, but decided to either not make the call or gave a yellow. Not making a call is a judgement, but giving a yellow when a player is taken down from behind with only the goalie to beat is a mistake. If anything, a smaller field means the ref has less ground to cover so should be in better position to make the right call. This guy was just an idiot last night.
I didn't see the game, so I wasn't judging, just forwarding a theory. The less ground to cover point is definitely valid too. Was the Corrales handball call visible? JMac
Re: Re: Gus St. Silva(R) Is that what he called? That one had me completely baffled. I saw the linesman's flag go up, so I assumed he was calling offsides. Which of course, completely infuriated me, because Ramiro hadn't passed the ball to anyone, so there couldn't have been any offsides. (Graz was in an offside position, had Ramiro passed the ball, but he didn't.) So why would have the linesman raised his flag? He was on the opposite side of the field from Corrales and the field ref was positioned better to see any hand ball. BTW, a hand ball didn't even occur to me, because Coralles clearly didn't use his hands so either of these two possible calls are complete crap. You can *maybe* forgive the non-call against LD vs Busch due to the fact that is a judgement call. But how in the world can a ref give a YELLOW card to the last defender that brings down LD on a clear goal scoring chance. If he doesn't foul, LD is in alone against the keeper. A red card in that situation is not a judgement call, it's the rules! One bad call that did go against the Crew was in the first half when I think it was Barrett fouled near the mid-field stripe. The Crew had already broken past him and had numbers on the Quakes going to the goal when Gus called it back. Then late in the second half when Clark got his second yellow, he let the Quakes play on until the scoring chance was missed before he stopped play. Very inconsistant!
I wouldn't disagree with you on this. There were a number of calls where the Crew got screwed. That was just the problem. The inconsistency of this man and the fact that he seemed to be afraid to make the calls that were required but he didn't. With Brian Hall touted as one of the best, if not the best, U.S. referee, he should have been center stage rather than fourth official. I think a referee has to come out immediately and set the tone otherwise he loses control. Someone else mentioned the Ekelund card for dissent; there was one instance where the ref was actually pushed by a Crew player and the ref did nothing. The guy should have been booted then and there. It was just that failure that must have been so frustrating for all of the players. I suggest that all of us write mlsgarber@mlsnet.com and insist that the level of MLS officiating be brought up to the level of MLS playing.
I totally agree with you here. I dont like to see a ref make a mistake, for either MY team, or another team. A critical mistake by a referee can make the difference between a team winning or losing in close matches. I know, that if the Crew beat another team, I want it to be without controversy. Heck, Noel Kenny has already been shown to a nice comfy seat on the sidelines for his piss-poor officiating, hopefully MLS continues this trend and sends refs like Gus St Silva and Rich Grady to the sidelines as well. And since I'm here... Ariel Graziani is a diving bastard
I disagree with your last little gibe, but I will agree with what I quote here. However, if you get rid of the bad ones, you're going to have to start training some new ones, or retrain the old ones and put them on probation. The problem seems, to me, one in which the quality of officiating in this league has not risen with the level of play. (Frank Yallop or Johnny Moore also pointed that out.)
People here must have extremely short memories if they are calling for Brian Hall to take the middle and save the day. Brian Hall has always performed admirably on the world stage, but for some strange reason, he's ALWAYS been piss poor in MLS. I'd honestly say that pound for pound, Hall just may be the worst referee in MLS' short history. JMac
Re: Re: Re: Gus St. Silva(R) From the angle we had, it looked like the Crew defender might have handled the ball, but we were down at the other end of the field, so I could certainly be mistaken. But that might explain where that call came from...
Today at the shake event, The uaestion was asked about the refs in he league, and Frank asnwered with a very valid point. He said (not a direct quote, but along the lines) "Yes, they are terrible, we all agree. All I try and get across to them is that if they are going to be terrible, at least be terrible consistantly". I agree complately. He mentioned that the guys don't kno what they can and can't get away with or not, and that's been a problem with the refs this season. With the inconsistancy, it's hard for them to figure out how they can play. Also....he mentioned that regardless of the ref, the guys still have to play the game. Sure, the team, the coaches, us....we can yell and argue all we want, but we all know the ref isnt going to change the call. As terrible as it is, it's almost common now in soccer. Frank also mentioned that the 4th ref got an ear full last night, and he hopes some of it sunk in.