I'd say it would have taken a Fire player being carried off in a stretcher for him to make a freaking call, but I'm not even sure that would have done it. He was visibly afraid to call any penalty kicks, for any reason, in either direction. If MLS folds, it's all his fault (necessary BigSoccer hyperbole, there). Are there <b>any</b> referees in MLS that we, as hypercritical fans, think are even <i>adequate</i>? And don't even get me started on the linesm...um, "referee's assistants." Of course, the game wasn't televised anywhere, so you'll all just have to take my word for it. Later, COZ p.s. Oops, meant to post this to the general MLS forum, and it won't let me delete. Could a mod move it for me?
maybe Wolff should have showed him the teeth that he probably lost in the first half...that might have done the trick
Not really. The consistency of his suckiness is just finally overwhelming me. I'm genuinely curious, though, as to whether or not there are any refs in MLS that we actually like. On the one hand, you've got St. Silva being afraid to make a game-changing call. On the other, you've got Grady giving two PKs and a red card. I guess that, if MLS refs make the same kinds of calls consistently, a good player can adjust, but in the middle, you've got guys who just don't seem to understand what the heck they're doing, and apply that uncertainty randomly from match to match. So, seriously, who is your favorite MLS ref and why? Later, COZ
EPL fans say the same thing, as do La Liga fans. As best i can tell, there is this one guy in Italy that knows how to officiate a soccer game, and everyone else sucks.
I've replied to similar threads as this in the last few weeks. Someone suggested that the refs have been better this year than in the past, which I totally disagreed with. Actually, I think they are worse, as a whole (including linesman), than ever. It's really pathetic the way most of these guys loose control of the game within minutes of the opening whistle. It's really starting to detract from the game. Now I don't claim to know every rule but if it was my JOB I would, and I wouldn't be afraid to make the calls. Actually, that's the crux of the matter IMO, I can't figure out if these guys just don't fully understand the rules or that they aren't confident enough to make the calls. Either way it's a problem that MLS needs to address.
If you ask me, it is a problem FIFA needs to address, not MLS. The system of a single referee, two linesmen and a powerless fourth official simply does not work with today's faster, more physical and more sophisticated athletes. In my opinion there should be no fewer than six on-the-field officials, each with a measure of power. I know that's unrealistic, but a good step in the right direction would be to implement the second center-of-the-field referee. In any case, the fact that the system doesn't seem to work anywhere is not just the fan's overreaction to bad calls against their team. Even at the World Cup, supposedly showcasing the best referees along with the best players, the officiating was dreadful, whether the US was involved in the game or not. Bad calls were the cause of more discussion at this World Cup than the final itself or the champion and with good reason. Though the referees in MLS are bad, I think it is the system that makes them glaringly so. We need reform of the system first, then we can deal with the individuals. BTW, on the other side, I think the US and MLS have helped produce a handful of pretty good refs. Brian Hall is a legitimate int'l ref, and Kevin Terry has improved substantially in his time in the league.
I wonder if the fact they didn't pick up that little "experiment" is indicative of the economics of the thing or a feeling that it didn't accomplish the objectives you think it would. I never saw or heard rumors of a final analysis of the whole two-referee experiment.
I don't know anything about the inside reasons for abandonning the experiment, but I did see 2 matches played with 2 CR's. It proved to be pointless. Calls were missed, bad calls were made, and worst, time was wasted consulting over non-crucial calls (i.e., a goal or a PK is one thing, but a free kick from 40 yards out was something all together pointless). In short, but for the time-wasting consultations, everything was the same as it is now. How many refs are there for NFL games? And yet they still feel the need to slow down an already slow game for video replays, etc. More whistles and flags aren't the answer. There'd still be missed calls and complaints, as any NFL fan would know.
Well, I do know that the whole thing was an "experiment" and it was just to see how it worked, not really a prelude to implementing it any time soon. You're right, though (but NFL officials have many, many more things and different responsibilities based on their position than could or would be necessary in soccer) about there always being controversy no matter how many refs you have.
I don't have anything usefull to add to the debate. I just need to reitterate that Gus St. Silva is a disgrace to the profession of Referees. I disgrace.
Kevin Terry has potential except that he needs to get in better shape and improve his running. When he makes bad calls it's because he's too far away from the play because he rarely runs to keep up with the play. He relies on the play to come to him and it doesn't always. His judgement and knowledge of the game seem pretty good, so I wish he'd fix the fixable. -KMJvet
But isnt this exactly the problem? That "one guy in Italy" is actually disliked by the majority of teams and fans in Italy. The point is - no one is EVER happy with their referees. Let's face it - as fans, players, coaches, we have one view of a game. the referee has a different impartial view.
Good point. Pierluigi Collina is, if you ask a Juventus supporter, an absolute joke of a referee. Ask anyone outside of Italy and they'll tell you that he's the best in the world hands down. There is a similar example in our own country, that's shown up on this very thread. Brian Hall was public enemy number one last year (and year's past). You couldn't find more than 1 out of 100 people that thought he was a good ref (if you asked MLS fans) Now, this year he goes to the World Cup, has a great performance, and people on these boards are calling him a great referee (during the World Cup) and a "legitimate international referee" on this very thread. Why? Because he's reffing other teams and, moreover, he hadn't reffed in MLS yet this year until last Saturday (though he will work the All-Star game). When someone's not busy "screwing up" your team's matches on a regular basis, you can look at them impartially and judge them as an official. However, if Collina were over here working in the MLS regularly, people would be bitching and complaining about him with the same regularity that they do about Grady, Stott, St. Silva, etc. Stott, actually, is a good example. As Hall has reached his pinnacle as an international referee, Stott will be taking the mantle as the USA's best official. He's worked an MLS Cup, but, more importantly, he got rave reviews at the WYC in Argentina as one of the top officials by FIFA (he worked Brazil v. Germany). Stott will be at future World Cups, and has a great reputation internationally. However, this year in particular, MLS fans seem to hate him. I'll go out on a limb and guess that they'll continue hating him for the next three years until 2006. Then, when he performs well and works a quarterfinal in Germany, MLS fans will be saying how he's the "one legitimate international referee" that we have, and how they wish all other MLS referees were like him (before you scoff, think about it....that's exactly what's happened with Hall).
MassRef. I guess familiarity breeds contempt. The thing that Gus did that really infuriated me (outside the inconsistancy) was that he always seemed to be apologizing for making a call. Most players will b!tch and moan after being called for a foul, or not getting a foul, but with Gus they got a shrug of the shoulders, a smile and what looked like an apology. Clearly not being very forcful.
That's all I was trying to say. I refrained from commenting on Mr. St. Silva for two reasons: 1) I know him personally 2) I didn't see the match However, based on your description--and no one else's--I will say that he has a different style than most other MLS refs. I was really suprised when someone said Gus was "afriad" of calling a PK....I will say with 100% certainty...Gus isn't afraid of calling anything. If you spent some time with him, you'd realize that he cares little whether or not players agree or disagree with his calls. He uses his peronsality to get through the match. Right or wrong about that, he's a good referee. I hope that the Fire fans' opinions of him is a one time situation (this is the first time I've heard mass disappointment with his performance).
Not once have I been impressed with his reffing, and when I saw that he was gonna be the ref, I knew what we were in for. Even though I'm not surprised he called the game that badly, I'm still pissed about it.
I've reffed, so I try to temper my biases towards my team with regard to the officiating. You can ask other Section 8'ers, who I'll argue with whenever they get too liberal and/or wildly inaccurate in their referee abuse. But the only alternative to Gus being "afraid to call a PK" on the foul against Etcheverry is that he knew he shouldn't have blown the whistle. My take is that it was one of those gray area fouls, where there was certainly contact, and Etch certainly did fall down, but it's a call you make to settle down an aggressive defense in the open-field. A "ticky-tack" foul in basketball parlance. Awarding a PK for that kind of foul would have been too harsh, but having blown the whistle already, the only recourse was to say it happened outside of the penalty area. Then there's the small matter of the ball being out of bounds before the play even happened, but that's more the linesman's fault. And as I said at the outset, don't get me started on those guys. And it's hard to tell if this is endemic to Gus' games for us, because I find myself saying that about a lot of refs. He's had at least one other brutally bad Chicago outing in last year's August 15th match against Miami. Like I said, I probably would pick Heron as my favorite, and even he's had some dogs for us. Rich Grady doesn't get to run the field for the Fire because he lives in the 'burbs, creating a geographical conflict of interest despite being spit on by Roman Kosecki in the '98 Open Cup. Later, COZ
Wait a minute....that was Rich Grady? You mean I've been hating Ali Saheli for this many years for nothing??? Son of a bitch!!
I'm pretty sure the ban followed his ejection in the Chicago-Dallas Open Cup match, about which the Sun-Times said the following: "Three players were ejected and nine cards were issued by Buffalo Grove-based referee Rich Grady. Diego Gutierrez and Roman Kosecki got the boot from the Fire." The Dallas Morning News gave more detail on the actual ejection from the game: "Kosecki, however, was ejected in the 71st minute and is disqualified from the championship game. He was given a yellow card for faking a penalty after getting tangled up with Dodd. Dodd and Kosecki then exchanged words, and Kosecki earned his second yellow card for bumping Dodd." The Barnburners site had the press reports in the archives. That said, Rich is a good guy. Save your hate for our next opponent. Later, COZ