I've recently read in The Guardian web site an article by Rob Smith, who chose the 6 best midfields ever. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Joy of Six: great midfields From France's Magic Square to Everton's title-winning quartet of 1984-85, here are half a dozen groups that bossed the middle by Rob Smyth 1) Brazil 1958-62 (Zagallo-Didi-Zito-Garrincha) The only midfield to play in consecutive World Cup finals, never mind win them both. Next! 2) Manchester United 1998-2001 (Giggs-Scholes-Keane-Beckham) No side has meshed the genres of midfield play so successfully: irrepressible, sinuous dribbler; granite-willed captain and metronomic passer; technically outstanding creator and goalscorer; and the greatest crosser of a ball in history. Together they were responsible for some of the most exhilarating, quick-quick-quicker football imaginable, and between them have played a mind-boggling 2,264 games for United. They are palpably without peer domestically, having won three titles in their only full seasons together before Sir Alex Ferguson killed the golden goose and bought Juan Sebastián Verón in pursuit of another European Cup. (Perversely, of course, United had won the European Cup two years earlier with none of the four playing in their proper positions.) After that moments were few and far between, although there was a touching last hurrah at White Hart Lane in April 2003, when Beckham, Scholes, Giggs and Scholes again combined for the decisive goal in United's gloriously improbable championship victory. For the partisan, much of their appeal lay in the fact that they got it: they were proper pros, free of bullshit (let's not get revisionist about Beckham here – he only fully embraced Brand Beckham when he knew he was past his peak) at a time when football was starting to disappear up its own hole. At club level they were the last great British and Irish midfield. And they were surely the best. 3) France 1984-86 (Giresse-Platini-Tigana-Fernandez) It's never too late to find your soulmate. (Actually it is - if you're in your thirties you've had it - but allow us some artistic licence here.) When France's Carré Magique (Magic Square) first played together, in a friendly against England on 29 February 1984, Michel Platini and Jean Tigana were 28 and Alain Giresse was 31. The newbie, Luis Fernandez, was 24 and would complete a Bleu square that everybody wanted to bet on, and which would inspire France to famously win Euro 84 and reach the semi-finals of Mexico 86, their final act together. They moved the ball around with the lazy serenity of collegiate dudes sharing a spliff. There was Giresse, the sort of squeaky-clean footballer you'd be proud to take home to your mother; Tigana with his outrageous, irresistible surges; Platini, the complete playmaker who also happened to score more than a goal every two games; and Fernandez, whose unforgettable penalty against Brazil unfairly dominates our thoughts to the exclusion of all his almost infinitesimal contributions. Collectively, their greatest achievement of all might have been to make France the neutral's favourites. Let's be honest: the proverbial Gallic swagger rubs the masses up the wrong way these days, but this lot refreshed the parts other peers could not reach with their humility and their intuitive, highbrow passing. Never mind conventional foursomes: in football, they proved, the brain is certainly the most erogenous zone of all. 4) Liverpool 1978-80 (Kennedy-McDermott-Souness-Case) Liverpool have had more lustrous midfield talents – despite the warped genius of Graeme Souness, this lot wouldn't compile 100 caps between them – but never a more devastating collective. Most notably in their first full season together, 1978-79, when Liverpool won the title at an absolute canter and their lowest midfield scorer in the league was Jimmy Case with seven. In an age when football was seriously dirty, the erroneous temptation is first to look at their physical qualities. Ray Kennedy could handle himself, and then there were the Three Taches, who appropriately knew all about the rough stuff. But this mob gave opponents the chance to do this two ways: the hard way, or the even harder way. You could be kicked off the pitch, and with relish, yet in many ways it was more painful to be passed off it. Kennedy was an outstanding footballer - who Bob Paisley said brought more enquiries than any other player in his time at Anfield - and will always be remembered for that velcro touch against Derby; Souness was simply majestic but Case gave jacks of all trades a good name and McDermott, who hoovered up the individual awards in 1979-80, was a goalscoring midfielder with proper ability, as shown by his steady stream of simply outrageous goals. As players, Souness and arguably Kennedy excepted, they were very good. As a group they were truly great. 5) Barcelona/Spain 2006-09 (Xavi-Iniesta-AN Other) It's a peculiar thing, given the obvious and embarrassing difference in ability between you, me and even John O'Shea, that, when we watch football, we can for much of the time think that, with a fair wind and Dame Fortune having had a few liveners, we could do what he just did. But the rat-a-tat passing of Xavi, Iniesta and Barcelona's front three, adopted Catalans toying with a helpless mouse, is on a completely different technical and intellectual plane. There have been more dynamic midfields in Spanish football (in 1989-90, Michel, Martin Vazquez and Bernd Schuster inspired Real Madrid to score a simply preposterous 78 goals in 19 home league games – seriously though, 78 in 19 games) but none as cerebral. Their exquisite through-passing makes the eye of the needle seem big enough to get a bus through, and their ball-retention is almost unprecedented. Watching them keep possession with almost absent-minded ease in the final minutes of the Euro 2008 final, as Germany hared around like neanderthals, was joyous. They are so good, it's terrifying. What Sir Alex Ferguson described as their "passing carousel" is moving faster than ever this season, which has brought about some of the sort of aesthetically appealing football that has previously been beyond the mind's eye, never mind two eyes. It all forces defenders into a Tetrisian resistance. And, as we know, there is only one way that can end. 6) Everton 1984-85 (Sheedy-Bracewell-Reid-Steven) The biggest regret about Everton's finest side is that they were not allowed to play in the European Cup. As a consequence, an arguably bigger regret is overshadowed: that their remarkable title-winning quartet of 1984-85 – who are probably just one last injury-time surge ahead of the Holy Trinity of Kendall, Harvey and Ball – hardly played together again at any level. We know of Paul Bracewell's injuries, which would rule him out of the 1986-87 title-winning campaign entirely, but it is often forgotten that Peter Reid, the furiously beating heart of the side, started only 15 league games out of 42 in both 1985-86 and 1986-87. As a consequence, the season of 1984-85 has the wistful qualities of a glorious winter romance. Everton were simply unstoppable, and their midfield showed a desire that verged on the rabid. The erudite passing of Bracewell and the ceaseless energy of Reid - often patronised but the PFA Player of the Year that season - gave them control of central midfield, and on the wings Steven, all direct dribbles and pinpoint crosses, and Sheedy, with a left foot so educated it could have been to Harvard, scored an absurd 33 goals between them. Yet after that, the four of them would barely play 33 games together. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/mar/27/joy-of-six-great-midfields) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What do you think? Would you add any mids to the list?
One more: Garrincha in the midfield (searching @#$%&pedia for what an oldie looked like and finding Orwellian decrees like forward, striker, manager, coach, pundit, isn't enough). (LOLOL) Some biased ones (overally): Zito, Mengálvio, Pelé Cerezo, Falcão, Zico, Sócrates (couldn't remind a five lined) Clodoaldo, Gérson, Pelé, Jairzinho, Tostão, Rivelino
I thought about these 2 mids as my choices but I was afraid to bee too biased... Also, Flamengo 1981 (the team that beat Liverpool's mid reported in the article) had a nice midfield... Andrade, Adílio and Zico.
well, technically Zagallo and Garrincha were forwards (along with Pele and Vava). I have an old video of them foursome playing together. I haven't seen anyone play so deep in the left corner like Zagallo used to. Of teams that I know, a good midfield group was Peru's in the 70's-and early 80's made up Cubillas, Cueto, and Velasquez. Later, Julio Cesar Uribe replaced Cubillas. You could see how in the 1978 world cup, Scotland was dumbfounded by the ball skills of this trio. They also eliminated Uruguay in '77, '81, defeated France in Paris in '81, and won the copa america in '75 with the same midfield.
Nene (discovered his nickname) was of these rare toppest quality players who can do both in outstanding way, playmaking or goalscoring (one of the greatest in WCs). Have (re)seen Cueto in footage, brilliant skill and pace.
Looking for Carpegiani videos, found a good related one: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXsPf8j--PI"]YouTube - Best Liverpool x Flamengo ( Zico ) 1981[/ame] Some late criticisms on Beto Silva's article might start even with local issues: by strenght longevity of a legend, Busby Babes look nearer than EPL style ManU to such a clear notion expressed by a word like 'joy'. Same to Barcelona, if their own team hasn't lined a better mid before, since it happens to be counted five consecutive times European champion Real Madrid had not only an attack. As for the funny mention of a club named Everton, whose greatnesses were so... insular, it could be listed a bunch of neighbors of mine, but on that matter a minimal tribute will be on a favorite of my own supported club, with Élton, Milton and Jessy. Curious about a Vitória one (or others)...
The two Pommy ones shouldn't have made it. That's just English bias. That Liverpool one was more tough than technical and the Everton one has too many what-ifs. How about Capello's Milan? The regular midfield was Donadoni, Desailly, Albertini and Boban. Before that, Sacchi had Donadoni, Ancelotti, Rijkaard and Evani. Juve had Tardelli, Platini and Bonini in the 80s. Not Top five but worthy of a mention and better than those Pommy ones listed. If an English club midfield had to make it, I doubt you can beat Becks, Roy Keane, Scholes and Giggs.
Hi, Ua, Just found this thread today (thank to your PM). What can I say about that list?... That it is at least strange. I tried to inform myself about its author, Rob Smyth, and (in the Soccerlesns link in Google) besides learning that he is a freelance sportswriter in England, I found this: Rob Smyth Replies To Soccerlens Written by Ahmed Bilal "My rant on Rob Smyth’s Guardian piece regarding Manchester United led to an email conversation with the author himself, during which I found out that he was a Manchester United fan as well (which made sense considering some points in his article). Rob also agreed to reply to my article and gave me permission to post his reply here. I’m reprinting the complete reply below - my article is in italics, Rob’s comments are in CAPS. Here we go… I’ve had enough of ignoramus critics, journalist hacks and piss-minded football fans taking potshots at Manchester United. It may the case of the last straw that broke the camel’s back, but Rob Smyth’s asinine piece in the Guardian on Monday has got to be the worst case of kick-em-while-they’re-down BS that I’ve seen. The article, in case you are wondering, is a scathing attack on Alex Ferguson and his role in the recent ‘downturn’ of Manchester United’s fortunes. The man has taken half-truths and lies and turned them into a saga of a manager hellbent on destroying the very club that he had put on the top. It makes for a pretty story, and undoubtedly sells more papers, but not only is it not true, what readers will invariably fail to remember is that: 1) A football writer is biased - and this one is biased against Manchester United THAT’S GENUINELY NOT TRUE, AS YOU NOW KNOW and…. 2) This writer is framing his beliefs for the sole purpose of serving his argument Where is responsible journalism? THIS IS A DIFFICULT ISSUE BECAUSE INCREASINGLY - ESPECIALLY ON THE WEB - WE ARE GIVEN THE CHANCE TO MAKE OFTEN STRONG COMMENTS, SO THE CLASSICAL NEED FOR IMPARTIALITY IS LESS RELEVANT. WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS TO BACK UP YOUR POINTS WITH EXAMPLES; I THINK I DID THAT, WHETHER PEOPLE DISAGREE OR NOT Look at the article rationally, you say? Well, let’s do that. First things first. Is United in a crisis? The answer depends on your perspective of United’s potential and ability to produce results. We’re in a position for which most other fans would kill for. We’re better off than Arsenal, and I dare say that we have a better team (though not a better midfield) than Liverpool. Carrick’s signing, expensive and misguided it may be, has given the squad balance in its attack. We need to sign another midfielder and possibly a striker (although we could get away with the ones we have). I’D ARGUE THAT, IN MANY WAYS, THE CRISIS IS GREATER OFF THE PITCH, WITH THE DEFENESTRATION OF THE VALUES OF THE CLUB There are several lies Rob Smyth perpetrates in his quest to prove that United are in a crisis. First, it’s his statement that “No matter how many people they move in for - and if reports are to be believed, United have made offers for dozens of players - nobody wants to go near themâ€?. Here’s a list of players United have made official bids for this summer: Michael Carrick and Tomasz Kuszczak. We signed Carrick, and decided not to sign TK when Bryan Robson asked for players plus the 4 mil on offer. Despite the rumours linking us to several players we have not bid for them or even approached their clubs. We have talked to Villareal about Riquelme, but no bid was made. That is IT. Ferguson has been after a creative and a holding midfielder, and he got one of them, and he’s close to getting another. UNITED HAVE MADE BIDS FOR OVER 20 PLAYERS THIS SUMMER, INCLUDING ZOKORA, PETIT, SENNA, CARRICK, KUSZCZAK AND VARIOUS OTHERS Surely a columnist from the Guardian has enough resources and knowledge to check his facts before hiding behind the cover of “reportsâ€?? Second, it’s United ‘letting Duff’ slip through our hands. Duff? Hello? Why would United want Duff when they already have four wide players in their squad, 3 of them for the long-term and 1 (Giggs) their most experienced midfielder? IN MY OPINION DUFF IS BETTER THAN ALL THE LEFT-WINGERS AT THE CLUB, EXCEPT RONALDO. GIGGS IS BETTER IN CM, PARK IS GOOD BUT NOT AS GOOD AS DUFF, AND I DON’T RATE RICHARDSON But the BS doesn’t stop there. Next, Manchester United’s second-place finish is criticised on the grounds that Arsenal didnt play well enough and Liverpool and Tottenham are getting much stronger so it is unlikely that it could happen again. I think we heard the news about Liverpool ‘getting stronger’ last year. They still came third. Despite their improvements to the squad I don’t see them overtaking us next season simply because our squad needs less tinkering. United under-acheived last season, but you wouldn’t believe it if you knew that our first choice central midfield was John O’Shea and Ryan Giggs - a utility defender and an attacking left winger remembered for his runs and goals rather than his bossing of the game from central midfield. I’D SAY LIVERPOOL ARE ON AN UPWARD TRAJECTORY, UNITED THE OPPOSITE. Two more points that made me boil - one was his attack on the current crop of United players, calling them spoiled and arrogant. Were you born under a rock? United players are no different than the players at any other top club - overpaid and well-stuffed. They still manage to win games. The players he singled out - Richardson, Ferdinand, Rooney, Ronaldo and Wes Brown - form the core of United’s best starting 11, and are without a shadow of a doubt 5 of the most hard-working players on the field. Ronaldo has his quirks, so do Ferdinand and Rooney, but then Gerrard has this need to be the center of attention, Cole likes to dive, Lampard goes AWOL and Terry can lose concentration. AGREED THEY ARE THE SAME ELSEWHERE - BUT THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A TRADITION OF UNITED PLAYERS HAVING A LITTLE BIT MORE CLASS THAN THE REST (SEE THE TEAM OF 93/94, OR WHEN KEANE RULED THE ROOST). THAT IS NOT THE CASE NOW. Players today are well-paid and their quirks are magnified because of the constant media spotlight. It doesn’t change the fact that they are there to play football, and that they are willing to bust their chops to win. I THINK IT GOES BEYOND THAT, THOUGH - IT IS NO COINCIDENCE THAT PEOPLE LIKE FERDINAND AND FOWLER HAVE WON LITTLE OF SIGNIFICANCE IN THEIR CAREER. Ferguson was at fault for not reinforcing the midfield last season - but considering that he had Alan Smith earmarked for that role, had Keano and Scholes there already, plus O’Shea and Fletcher to back them up, I don’t see how Ferguson could have predicted Smith’s injury, Scholes going blind, Keano being kicked out, Fletcher being injured and both O’Shea and Giggs (our replacement midfield) being injured. This led to an emergency pairing of Ferdinand and Rooney (two of our best players). HE COULDN’T HAVE PREDICTED SMITH’S INJURY BUT HE COULD HAVE SEEN THAT HE’D BE SHITE THERE! AND THAT SCHOLES WAS PAST IT, AND THAT FLETCHER WAS RUBBISH, ETC. JUST MY OPINION. Surely you cannot plan for 6 midfielders being injured at the same time? EVEN IF EVERYONE WAS FIT SEASON - AS THEY WERE FOR MUCH OF THE CL CAMPAIGN - WE STILL COULDN’T SCORE A GOAL Ideally we could have brought in someone else instead of Park last summer (but we needed to plan for Giggs leaving), or a midfielder instead of Evra (we had no left-back with heinze injured and Silvestre needed in the centre of defence). Injuries were a major problem for United last season, yet all people can think about is that we are in a crisis and don’t have any players. I DON’T THINK UNITED SUFFERED FROM INJURIES MUCH MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE: ROONEY AND RIO, FOR EXAMPLE, HARDLY MISSED A GAME. The crisis came and went last season. We survived it, and are stronger as a result (despite the loss of Ruud). I HOPE SO - AND I THINK THE LOSS OF RUUD IS A GOOD THING - BUT I DOUBT IT. Some valid points were raised about Ferguson, but the author chose to barrack him with baseless accusations instead of listing concerns truthfully. I’ve already covered most of them in this article, so go read that. The second point was how the writer compared the current crop of players to the ‘men’ of the 90s - Robson, Cantona, Keane. All the talk about Ferguson being from a different era (especially if you throw in Strachan’s rant about how Ferguson didnt treat him right at United) is justified, but are you ********in’ kidding me? This guy would turn at the drop of a hat and call Cantona a cheating, kicking, flying maniac and talk about all the deliberate tackles Keano made if you gave him the right context. Now he’s singing their praises. I DON’T KNOW ABOUT THAT: KEANE IS MY FAVOURITE PLAYER OF ALL TIME. I DEFINITELY PREFERRED PLAYERS FROM THAT ERA. I don’t like Ferguson for the way he’s treated some of our best players, but the fact is that he’s what we’ve got (just like Glazer is what we have) and at the end of the day, we have to make do with what we have. If the old man knock Chelsea off their ********in’ perch (as he did to Liverpool), I’ll be the first to bitch-slap every piss-taking United-hater that I see for one whole year. AND I’LL TAKE THE DESERVED BITCH SLAP IF WE DO I’m out. First up - thanks for the reply Rob. Nice to see a measured response to my angry post, but hearing that you wrote this as a United fan clears up a lot of things (especially your remarks about the current team). The one thing that still rankles me is the amount of players United has bid for, as I strongly believe that the number is far less than reported in the media. Diarra, Zokoro, Vieira and Berbatov were not bid for, merely inquired about - that’s the same as Chelsea asking us about Ruud and us turning it down earlier this summer. In response to my question ‘where is responsible journalism?’, Rob said: THIS IS A DIFFICULT ISSUE BECAUSE INCREASINGLY - ESPECIALLY ON THE WEB - WE ARE GIVEN THE CHANCE TO MAKE OFTEN STRONG COMMENTS, SO THE CLASSICAL NEED FOR IMPARTIALITY IS LESS RELEVANT. WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS TO BACK UP YOUR POINTS WITH EXAMPLES; I THINK I DID THAT, WHETHER PEOPLE DISAGREE OR NOT Now that’s well and good, but mate you represent The Guardian, a news agency that millions of people read and respect. Examples can be provided by any joe blow for the purpose to suit his argument, but relying on examples makes your arguments selective to certain times and are not relevant or applicable in a broader scenario. I’m not asking for impartiality, but for backing your statements with facts. Because of the Internet and how easy it is to publish your opinion and have it heard, it’s easier to get away with half-truths, rumours and lies. As a journalist, and as a representative of an organisation like the Guardian, it’s your responsibility to be ‘above’ the ‘i can prove anything i want with examples’ routine, and present genuine facts to support your argument. Other than that mate, thanks again for the reply." http://soccerlens.com/manchester-united-update-rob-smyth-replies-to-soccerlens/410/ Impossible not to agree with the Soccerlens articulist. Someone writing for a respectful hebdomadary like The Guardian has the obligation to be more consequent and impartial in his opinions. And not irresponsably trying to compare, for instance, classical NT formations with clubs', one of them (Everton) far from being one of the best - even of his own country. Just out of thin air. OK that Bob Smyth might feel in the right to be 'partial' in Internet blogs, as he himself states in his response. But does that entitle anybody to be ignorant?... Of course, The Guardian's blog proposal is: Opinion.Conjecture.Other stuff. More than simple conjectures however Bob Smyth's opinions (I could also call him 'Zé da Silva'...) are no 'other stuff' than a one-way intergalactic trip to Andromeda ...
No order, the best I saw: 82 Italy: Tardelli, Antognoni, Oriali, Conti 82 Brazil: Socrates, Falcao, Junior, Cerezo (+ Eder-Zico, mid-forwards) 84 France: Platini, Tigana, Giresse, Fernandez 88 Milan: Donadoni, Rijikaard, Gullit, Ancelotti 98 France: Zidane, Vieira and whoever was there 88 -
The Spurs double winning midfield of Mackay, Blanchflower and White deserves a mention as well (especially when compared to the English midfields listed in the article). France didn't really have a settled midfield in 98, and Vieira didn't feature at all. Deschamps and Djorkaeff were ever presents (I think), and Zidane would have been if not suspended. Then the likes of Karembeau, Petit, Diomede and Boghossian all got games.
France 98 midfield was Petit, Deschamps and Karembeu as defensive midfielders and Zidane as playmaker.
You did't mention Djorkaeff, he was the other attacking mid/forward playing for France. Played in all of France's matches as pointed out by Ianman, also probably played more minutes than Zidane due to Zidane's 2 match suspension. As for strong midfields, in 1958-59 Real Madrid could have had a midfield of Gento-Zarraga-Didi-Kopa with Di Stefano as the inside forward. That's pretty good I suppose. Also there is Real Madrid's midfield of 2001-02. Solari-Zidane-Makelele-Figo playing in a diamond seems pretty solid to me.
This. Unfortunately, while the midfield of Zico, Socrates, Falcao and Cerezo was sensational, the rest of the team was nowhere near the same level.