GOP unveils tax plan

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Boloni86, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You ARE trolling.

    I've been pretty adamant for years that the economic growth of this country is below average. I've also been pretty specific about why: a global depression that hasn't yet ended in most parts of the world, the addition of 2 billion more workers into the global labor market, a transitioning economy, the Baby Boomers aging out, poor infrastructure, etc.

    But what I've also been adamant about is that 2.02%, while below average, isn't statistically different than the US' historical average of 2.5%.
     
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  2. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, you mean that the stimulus worked?

    [​IMG]

    Nope, brah, still here. And, as before, it worked. It stopped the recession. There are dozens of reasons why the recovery wasn't like other post-WW2 recoveries - the biggest being that the world has just recently ended its depression.
     
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  3. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Linking a country's growth rate to its President is, by and large, trolling. Barack Obama had little to do with the U.S. economy, for better or worse, and a one-year President like Donald Trump has had jack-all for effect.

    I will say, though, that crisis management matters -- and that W and Obama got all the big decisions right in late 2008/early 2009, and that most Trump supporters got all the big decisions wrong.
     
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  4. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    I didn't link it to a President, I said the 80s and 90s were economic boom times because Pizza Dude suggested otherwise.

    Nice to see you give W some credit for initiating policies that the PC&E board attributes to Obama "saving the economy". That is rare around here.
     
  5. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You mean like moving billions offshore? You think a drop to 20% is going to change that?
     
  6. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Are you talking corporate or income taxes? Because to my knowledge no one is talking about dropping the marginal income tax rate to 20%.
     
  7. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Que? I just saw this.... I thought we'd been through this a hundred times. The historical average (at least in the modern era) is like 3.2%. Barry's average is 1.2%. Blame it on whatever you like but his record is the worst since WWII.

    And JohnR, I don't need a lecture on Presidents and GDP after listen to blowhards like Dave and yourself during the Bush years.
     
  8. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1) No, the historical average is 2.5%. I have done the math so many times now.

    2) If you include 2009 Q1, Obama is 1.5%. If you exclude q1 2009, it is 2.02%. Neither of those numbers are 1.2%. I have done this math so many times now.

    3) The reason it is like pre-WW2 is because the recession he took office during most resembles the Great Depression.

    4) He's black, VFish. Time to get over it. He was black, he was our President, and he won twice.
     
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  9. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    This reminds me of the time you came up with your own GDP calculations. Here are GDP #s by President from the NY Times:

    They are listed in reverse order of growth.

    Barack Obama, 1.2% annual G.D.P. growth rate (previously 1.5%)
    George W. Bush, 1.6% (previously 1.7%)
    George H.W. Bush, 2.1%
    Gerald Ford, 2.2%
    Dwight Eisenhower, 2.5%
    Richard Nixon, 3.0%
    Jimmy Carter, 3.2%
    Ronald Reagan, 3.5%
    Bill Clinton, 3.8%
    Lyndon B. Johnson, 5.0%
    John F. Kennedy, 5.4%

    And IIRC the historical average is 3.2%. Trust me unless you want to look like a dumbass again.
     
  10. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Anyone see a pattern among the big GDP winners? They all benefitted from big tax cuts. Even a loser like George W. had big GDP gains after cutting taxes.
     
  11. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Couldn't click on your link.
     
  12. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Bush II of course primed the economy with massive stimulus

    e.g. Massive Military escalation and security state, not to mention MBSs being the debt engine of consumer economy
     
  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Free unicorns!

    https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2017/11/14/tax-cuts-and-the-trade-deficit/?smid=tw-share

    Now, it’s just an accounting identity that current account + financial account = 0 — that is, $6.4 trillion in capital inflows means an extra $6.4 trillion in trade deficits over the next decade, more than $600 billion a year. Somehow, TF isn’t advertising that point, even though it’s an unavoidable conclusion from their analysis.

    What would adding $600 billion per year to the trade deficit do? Mainly it would come from manufacturing, although part of that would reflect indirect losses in service industries that supply manufacturing. So let’s say 60% comes from reduced value added in U.S. manufacturing. That’s more than 20% of U.S. value-added in manufacturing. So the U.S. manufacturing sector would be around 20% smaller than it would have been otherwise.​
     
  14. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Cascarino's Pizzeria BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Give us the ideal VFish tax brackets if you would and explain how that would stimulate the horrific Obama growth and create millions upon millions of jobs (15% flat tax not an option in this exercise).
     
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  15. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's an exercise in futility, but only because no tax rate plan will create millions and millions of jobs in the long run.
     
  16. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How do wealthy individuals stimulate the economy?
     
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  17. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    But Paul Ryan rolled his sleeves up!
     
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  18. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    The Great Recession was a financial/banking crisis as opposed to a "normal" recession. And the slow recovery from it was actually typical of the recovery from similar financial crises in other countries. It's too bad you can't acknowledge both that and the fact that when Obama became president, the economy was in complete free fall.
     
  19. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Jobs! JOBS! JOBS!!!!
     
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  20. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Cascarino's Pizzeria BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Escorts, limo drivers and lotsa blow.
     
  21. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    By creating lots of banking jobs in Panama, Bermuda and Ireland ...

    Oh, you meant the US economy? FIIK ...
     
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  22. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    Well there are PACs and 527 organizations.
     
  23. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    surprise! surprise!
    930522616980484097 is not a valid tweet id


    You're taxes and insurance premiums are going up!
     
  24. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cannot imagine this will work. But I have been wrong before.
     
  25. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Dem groundswell better get back to work explaining to congress that this is essentially a repeal of ACA.
     

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