Good Bye Tim Ream, Hello Omar Gonzalez

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by USAsoccer1, Oct 11, 2011.

  1. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Because there are more LA galaxy fanboys than Houston Dynamo fanboys and more Houston fanboys than FC Dallas fanboys on this BS thread. :)
     
  2. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Understandable. From what little I've seen from Fabian(2 games), and what I've read, he's better as an attacking mid/winger. He can play LB, but is better farther up field.

    If Fabian can play LB, and can shut down opposing Man U wingers like Chandler can, then I'm all for it. But, I don't think he can. So until I see otherwise, I at least have to go with Chandler at LB and Lichaj at RB.

    Chandler has played damn well as a LB the last 2 games for us. I think he'll be even better for us in Nov. So in my mind, Fabian has to be at least as good as Chandler has shown at shutting down opposing wingers. Do you think he can? No point of moving Chandler to the right if the LB ends up getting weaker. Not with a healthy Lichaj ready to push Chero at RB, when he recovers.
     
  3. US2014

    US2014 Red Card

    Jun 25, 2011
    Chicago
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But first Lichaj has to leave Villa because he didn't even make the bench before he got injured and Klinsmann wont bring in players that don't start for their clubs btw I was very Impressed how Lichaj played during the Gold Cup what position did he play?
     
  4. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Played RB during the GC, starting 4 games.

    If healthy,pretty sure he'd make the bench at Villa. they are damn short on RB's. If not, he'll go out on loan in Jan. Should be healthy by then. I really think he's our future RB (as in 2 years from now), with Chandler excelling on the left.
     
  5. Skevin

    Skevin Member+

    Aug 9, 2009
    Colorado
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Czechia
    I hope you're joking because that isn't true. Gonzalez has deserved all the praise he is getting because just look at the Galaxy's stats this year, they are amazing. Look how many shut outs Omar has helped the Galaxy get. Omar has played amazing this year and without a doubt has turned into potentially the best CB in the MLS. Cameron is very good as well. I now live in Houston and I have watched Cameron play and to be honest I am a fan of his. The problem though is he was playing CM instead of CB for practically the whole year. For Cameron to get the recognition he probably deserves at CB, he should consistently be playing there. Houston should actually play Cameron at CB because they seem to play much better with him at CB.

    He wouldn't make the bench for Villa not because he isn't good enough, but because McLeish only likes to have one defender on the bench because he rarely makes defensive subs. Clarke is a very versatile player that can play CDM, CM, CB, or LB so that is why he normally takes that spot on the bench. Hutton and Warnock are currently better than Lichaj but give Lichaj time and he will start for Villa. I think McLeish recognizes Lichaj's talent and will probably loan him in january.
     
  6. DCFAN96

    DCFAN96 Member

    Apr 24, 2004
    Ummm no its not....you specifically said Omar could never be an ideal replacement for Ream because he isn't left footed....were just letting you not being right or left footed does not matter....if you can play the position you can play the position. Your opinion is wrong. But w/e seems your not going to concede anyway.
     
  7. SPA2TACU5

    SPA2TACU5 Member+

    Jul 27, 2001
    ATX
    Have you ever played CB, and if so, was it on a team that would build up from the back? If not, have you at least watched teams play that build up their attacks from the back line?
     
  8. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    you are not a minority. I have stated many times i would prefer to see Chandler making the runs out the right. His runs from RB are far more dangerous. Push Dolo off to the left. As a vet who doesnt push up nearly as often as he used to, solidifying the left while making the right stronger could bring some success to both our attack and defense.

    it was an example of a right footed player playing a left footed position and succeeding. You saying that Omar couldnt take Ream's spot b/c he's right footed is plain wrong.

    his first match we saw this issue, but his last 2 matches has shown his ability to adapt and create opportunities with Shea on the LM. I would much rather have Chandler out right and play dolo (another right footer) out LB. I would also start Lichaj (another right footer) out left over any of our true left footed options.


    i guess the fact that Chandler is right footed and the ":rolleyes:" were not obvious points. From now on when i post sarcasm with you i will end it with [/sarcasm]

    again, right footed players being able to play a left footed position. How is this not relevant?

    and why does the fact that Omar is right footed have anything to do with JK's preferred style of playing?

    Yes and yes.

    Still dont see why you claim a right footed Gonzo couldnt take a left footed Ream's spot in the roster.
     
  9. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree that it does matter for LCB's and RCB's. All you have to do is watch the couple of matches that Onyewu played at LCB and the couple that Boca played at RCB. While they are both capable of using their "off" foot, it is easy to see they are not as comfortable doing it which leads to hesitancy and is a problem when passing from the back four where you can't make a mistake on a short pass.
     
  10. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the number of left footed options at CB are going to run thin if this is your stance. Take Ream off the list, who will be our 2nd option at LCB?

    CB options at LCB who are left footed? Boca, Ream, Orozco... anyone else?

    Clearly JK is not concerned with this b/c he played Orozco as a RCB and failed passing was not the reason he was removed from the lineup.

    fortunately, im just as comfortable passing with my left as i am with my right. I suspect some are simply making broad generalizations that a right footed player is hesitant to pass with his left. Not always the case people
     
  11. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC

    The problem is - y'all haven't been speaking about the here and now. I don't know too many people who would insist Ream is ready now. And even if you were - would you argue not to put him in these positions with the National team now? In my opinion this is the perfect time to get him in the squad and get him adjusted to International Soccer and see what he's made of. And sometimes the glaring mistakes in the short run can improve the player in the long run. You talk about standards of being better than what we already have - but you seem to be arguing that he isn't good enough. If he's as good as what we've had in the past, much better in possession but worse in the air, then I would invest a lot in improving his so called flaws because an ounce of possession is worth a pound of Gooch.

    Why would it ever be foolish to put hopes on a player who is very composed on the ball and an accurate passer? I realize that every strength is a weakness, and his composure is often his undoing, but the history of our team has been to value athleticism at the expense of soccer ability - and grind out results through fitness, pace and grit, which is why it's really hard for us to go deep in tournaments without running ourselves into the ground.

    In sum, in my opinion, pooh poohing Ream as the fantasy of fanboys is really misguided (I'm overstating your position and speaking generally). We want guys like this to make the leap to the next level because we struggle so much in possession against top tier teams. We aren't going to be Mexico any time soon, but composure and possession is invaluable for this team, at every position. Maybe he won't be able to handle fast physical aerial threat players or continue to have mental lapses - but this is the kind of guy we should all want to make the leap to the next level.

    You may be right that he won't get there, but in my opinion you would be dead wrong if you don't think it's worth the effort to work on his so-called flaws and continue to give him looks.
     
  12. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed.

    It was worth the effort to see his ceiling at this level. Absolutely. I'm not sure if it was worth it to see him in a meaningful game against Panama, but I'm not the head coach so lucky for me I don't have to make that call.

    However, right now I think he should go on USMNT vacation for a while and we should look at other guys. I would like to see him back in the USMNT shirt in the future.
     
  13. DCFAN96

    DCFAN96 Member

    Apr 24, 2004
    I guess that means Landon would suck as at LW...oh wait....umm nvm. Right food players play LB or LCB all the time, your reasoning is flawed. Omar is a better defender then Tim, point blank period....I could careless if Tim had 7 left feet it doesn't make him a better defender, saying Omar cannot replace Tim because he isn't left footed is a stupid argument to make.

    If you want to talk about teams who build their attack from the back and claim it supports your theory then why do Puyol and Abidal play LCB and LB and both are right footed? Dude you jsut plain wrong let it go. I'm sure Klinnsman will prove you wrong soon enough, I doubt Tim gets a run out over other options again.
     
  14. Skevin

    Skevin Member+

    Aug 9, 2009
    Colorado
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Czechia
    People still are on Ream's bandwagon? Really?! I start believing in Ream if he can have a whole solid season.
     
  15. UnionDues

    UnionDues Member+

    Aug 16, 2011
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Making mistakes is not a problem as long as you learn from them. Ream clearly does not. The header goal scored by Ecuador, effectively conceded by Ream, was almost identical to the goal he allowed @ RSL back in August. He failed to get in front of the attacker or to even attempt a jump for the ball. Passing directly to attackers in front of the goal is a neat little trick he does sometimes too, as he did @ PHI back in April and vs. RSL several weeks ago. His poor sliding tackle in the Gold Cup, resulting in the penalty, gave us our first group loss in that tournament in many years.

    The problem with Ream is that he simply cannot defend.

    I agree that his distribution is good, but this skill is really secondary as a CB. He could be converted to a D-mid, although as others have noted, there's already plenty of depth on the USMNT already at that position.

    This is fair. USMNT call-ups should not be charity cases. Let Ream "develop" at NYRB.
     
  16. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    like i said before... we've already seen JK play Orozco as RCB. His poor performance had nothing to do with passing with his right foot.
     
  17. SPA2TACU5

    SPA2TACU5 Member+

    Jul 27, 2001
    ATX
    Abidal is right footed?!

    But now that you mention him, here's a nice video to show you why a natural footed player in any of the defensive positions is so important in possession:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cPLqzII4ho"]Abidal vs Villareal 11/13/2010 Jornada 11 - YouTube[/ame]

    I will give you further explanation later today.
     
  18. SPA2TACU5

    SPA2TACU5 Member+

    Jul 27, 2001
    ATX
    And as far as I know Orozco is a natural right footer.
     
  19. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    This is pure hyperbole. He at times has been Red Bull's best defender by some distance. Less often this season when the whole team has sucked.

    This forum is often way too focused on the here and now.

    Clint Dempsey, Eddie Lewis, Brian McBride and many others all were thought to suck by the general consensus here at various stages in their careers.

    Tim Howard fell apart under the searing scrutiny/pressure of Man United but regrouped and in spite of his flaws, is a solid mid-table Premiership keeper and mostly accepted around here as our best option at keeper. It seems his strength in shot stopping outweighs his shortcomings in positioning and with dealing with balls in the air - which has improved. We are much more likely to overlook some of his shortcomings because of who he plays for it seems.

    I'm all for giving Omar Gonzalez a look though. I think it's easier to play on a team that doesn't play matador midfielders like Dax and Ballouchy in the middle at the same time, or weak defenders like Solli, Miller and occasionally Marquez, but at the end of the day, Ream has to get better and I think he will.
     
  20. moytoy12

    moytoy12 Member

    Jun 20, 2008
    The same silly exaggerated response could have been directed toward Omar last year. Why write Ream off? He has flaws. But he also has positives that other CB candidates do not have. Shouldn't we all be on his bandwagon and hope he does well, while simultaneously supporting our other CB possibilities?
     
  21. Skevin

    Skevin Member+

    Aug 9, 2009
    Colorado
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Czechia
    I want to see him do well but I just don't get how people still think he is international quality.
     
  22. SPA2TACU5

    SPA2TACU5 Member+

    Jul 27, 2001
    ATX
    Mind you: I never said Gonzalez can not play LCB.

    "Could you talk a bit more about why you're [assigning] players to specific positions? Nowadays, it seems that most players on top tier teams can play an array of positions. A left center back could without a doubt play right center back."

    First of all a lot of top tier teams play with midfielders who will pick up the ball just in front of their defense so the center backs (CB) don't have to pass it into midfield and can focus on defending without having to be error-proof passers.

    But since we're aiming at "a proactive style, having more possession than opponents, dictating the rhythm and pace", we want our CB's to be able to pass the ball into midfield.

    What does this mean for the two CB's? Both of them need to have skills on the ball, both in handling it and passing it. As there are hardly any two footed players in professional soccer, almost every defender will handle and pass with his strongest foot.

    To illustrate the difference between a CB in and outside his natural position I've made this little drawing:

    http://i55.tinypic.com/s400w4.jpg

    Keep in mind here that time/space is the key to the passing game. Every extra touch/turn takes time resulting in giving the opponent opportunity to close down the space and cut off potential forward ball movement.

    I hope this makes sense, if it doesn't, I can give a more extensive explanation and some examples.
     
  23. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well i seem to recall him playing LB with the olympic team and people saying he's naturally a LCB. However, the only bio i can find that states which foot is the player's favorite is Transfer Market and it claims both.

    I asked this earlier and dont recall anyone responding, but what's your list of depth for left footed LCB's? I'll start it:

    Boca
    Orozco
    Ream
    .....
     
  24. Otergod

    Otergod Member+

    Sep 20, 2007
    indianapolis
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i think Ream has the qualities to become a intl' quality player (or at the very least quality depth). I just think that he needs to stabilize his club career. He's played 2 seasons now. His first season was absolutely stellar. His second season has been average at best (though im sure some posters will claim its below average).

    I think he needs to become a consistent CB talent in MLS (or whatever club he'll end up at after next season). This is why people are asking for John or Gonzo to get called up.
     
  25. iced1776

    iced1776 Member+

    Dec 4, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Is anybody actually still making the claim that at this moment he is international quality? At this point I think the only argument people are making is that he has the potential to be.
     

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