Had a question id thought id throw out there.....would the Gold Cup be better or worse off with 16 teams?....clearly the extra 4 teams would be weaker, weak as hell, but the Asian cup runs 16, with about as many countries that CONCACAF have. If nothing else, it would give 4 more minnows some more exposure in CONCACAF, it likely wouldnt change much except 4 groups with top 2 in the 1/4's, but it seems like its worth trying.
Had a question id thought id throw out there.....would the Gold Cup be better or worse off with 16 teams?....clearly the extra 4 teams would be weaker, weak as hell, but the Asian cup runs 16, with about as many countries that CONCACAF have. If nothing else, it would give 4 more minnows some more exposure in CONCACAF, it likely wouldnt change much except 4 groups with top 2 in the 1/4's, but it seems like its worth trying.
I like the idea. It's easy to assume that the minnows would be uncompetitive but just look at Guadeloupe. Give a few minnows a chance who knows what could happen. Even Grenada would be able to put guys like Shalrie Joseph and Jason Roberts on the field so it should at least be considered.
see thats what i was thinking......not that the minnows are going to push for a world cup, but it would give them a chance to participate further in more meaningful matches
Group A: USA, Guadeloupe, Trinidad & Tobago, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines Group B: Mexico, Jamaica, Guatemala, Guyana Group C: Canada, Panama, Haiti, El Salvador Group D: Costa Rica, Honduras, Cuba, Martinique
I think Guadeloupe and Martinique are better than many of the FIFA members in CONCACAF. You are of course free to replace some of them with on of the following: Elorating - Country Code: 132 Barbados 149 Surinam 151 Saint Kitts and Nevis 157 French Guiana 159 Saint Lucia 159 Grenada 166 Bermuda 173 Netherlands Antilles 174 Dominican Republic 175 Antigua and Barbuda 177 Sint Maarten 180 Nicaragua 183 Saint Martin 186 Dominica 187 Cayman Islands 187 Belize 191 British Virgin Islands 193 Aruba 198 Puerto Rico 199 Bahamas 214 Turks and Caicos 215 US Virgin Islands 219 Montserrat 219 Anguilla
no thanks....i was just saying they arent in FIFA, which is actually good for them being territories of France, they have a better team that way.
disagree No I do not like the idea at all. Once you get to 11 and 12 team in CONCACAF there is a big drop off in quality of play. The tourney would suffer. The Copa America has a great tourney with 12. This year Gold Cup was very entertaining. Even the Saco warriors showed some offense playing their second stringers. I do not want to see Mexico beat someone 7-0 or the US blow someone out 5-0 and the other team can even advance the ball over the 1/2 field. Stick with 12 until the other nations can field better quality teams. I would rather see top teams from other federations like Columbia, South Africa, S Korea and add a European team like Ireland, Denmark or Portugal. That would be a tremendous tourney. Then there is the risk of not having a CONCACAF team win their own tourney. Sorry I would stick with 12.
Re: disagree Which would also make the tie-breaker "how many goals did you beat up the minnow by" Also, how would you run qualifying? Put all 10 North/Central teams directly in, and have the Carribbean play for six spots? Put 8 team directly in, and have teams 9-24 play off for the last 8 (probably as four mini-tournaments)?
Re: disagree You could run it as 12 Concacaf teams, and 4 invited teams, where the Quarterfinals only consised of Concacaf teams. The invited teams would play in the groups, but can't advance to the QF's. Only the top two Concacaf teams from each group would advance. (The invited teams would basically play three "super-friendlies" from their standpoint.) This all goes back to the question of what Concacaf should do to get meaningful games for everybody: the giants, the middle-ground'ers and the minnows. A 16-team-all-Concacaf tourney would give nothing more to the power teams (but one invitee per group would). The all-Concacaf-16 would also give little to the 13-16-ranked teams, who would get trounced three times in the Cup. That block from 13 to 24 (or so) would be better served to get some decent qualifying matches, then advance the best to a 12-team Cup. Yes, an upset can happen. But I don't see the need to get 16 Concacaf teams for that little possibility.
Enough with inviting nations. This is a CONCACAF tournament. Should UEFA invite Brazil "just to make it a better tournament"?
But Uefa doesn't have the situation that Concacaf has: two giants, a small pool of really good teams, a tremendous drop-off after about 12, and a cadre of tiny's. It's hard to have a format that benefits everybody.
The last installment of the Gold Cup had a very high standard of play involving ALL CONCACAF TEAMS. Upsets galore. Freaking Guadalupe went the distance against Mexico. The smaller nations won't improve if they aren't allowed a shot at the bigger teams. Participation in their own regional championship is necessary. Asia and Oceania are weaker confederations than concacaf, but don't see the need to invite guest teams. They seem to be able to put on a good show. I'm not in favor of expanding the tournament to 16 if it includes guest teams. I think 12 is the number to stick with for now.
I´ll also add that the ¨big¨ nations that came here made no sort of impression at all. Brazil lost to Mexico and the USA, and tied Jamaica and Guatemala(funny how they never came back). CONMEBOL and others think the level of CONCACAF is so low they can get results here even with C teams, even though Mexico, the USA, Costa Rica, and Honduras have all gone to the later stages of Copa America, beating South American superpowers along the way. I don´t see what good bringing in those teams has brought. CONCACAF needs to help itself improve instead of trying to look pretty or sell tickets.
Great post. I'd also like to add that it seems to me that the general consensus, from all nations, is that this was the best Gold Cup ever. We did look pretty and sell tickets too. The worst attended match had nearly 16,000 fans. The tournament averaged close to 40,000 without the gimmick of inviting a "big name" team.
CONCACAF is plenty good enough to have 16 teams in its tournament. Sure, there are two giants, but even the giants can (and do frequently) lose. The smaller nations can't develop unless they're given a chance to compete (and gain financially). Remember that Panamanian soccer was a joke ten years ago: now they're in the upper echelon. Having teams like Guadeloupe, Barbados, and Guyana in the finals can be helpful for them, and since the system would seed them in separate groups, would probably not influence attendances negatively. To qualify, I would do a modified European qualifying. Bottom 16 teams play off to advance to second round. Then, 8 groups of 4 to qualify (top two advance). So if it were to happen right now, based on this month's rankings, these teams would playoff to qualify: St. Lucia Bahamas British Virgin Islands Turks and Caicos Islands Netherlands Antilles Dominica Cayman Islands Puerto Rico Anguilla Belize US Virgin Islands Montserrat Aruba French Guiana St. Martin St. Maarten Assuming higher seeded teams win, here are the seedings for the group stage: 1 seeds: Mexico USA Canada Costa Rica Honduras Trinidad Panama Guadeloupe 2 seeds: Cuba Haiti Guatemala Jamaica St Vincent Guyana Martinique Barbados 3 seeds: Antigua and Barbuda Bermuda El Salvador Dominican Rep Suriname St Kitts and Nevis Nicaragua Grenada 4 seeds: St. Lucia Bahamas British Virgin Islands Turks and Caicos Islands Netherlands Antilles Dominica Cayman Islands Puerto Rico Mexico, USA, and other top teams should participate in qualifying to improve other CONCACAF sides and get additional match practice. Only six matches needed in a 4-team group: not too many to interfere with club matches, but enough to generate interest. This should frankly be done, even if the Gold Cup doesn't expand to 16 sides. The more teams like the USA and Mexico get to play smaller sides, the better for the region as a whole.
Very true. Hell 15 years ago US soccer was considered a joke. Bigger teams gave us a chance to learn and improve. Who are we to deny other nations that same chance?
Re: disagree You have no idea what you are even talking about. "Once you get to 11 and 12 team in CONCACAF there is a big drop off in quality of play." Did you know in the 2007 Gold Cup the two "last teams in" were Honduras and Guadeloupe... Honduras = Won it's group (beat Mexico 2-1) Guadeloupe = Semifinalists (only lost 0-1 to Mexico) Oh yeah, huge drop off... What teams would be added with 4 more? Jamaica, Martinique, Guyana, Surinam, Grenada, Barbados, St. Kitts & Nevis, St. Vincent/Grenadines... I fail to see how ANY of those teams wouldn't be competative. Someone asked about qualifying. I say do it the same except have 8 Caribbean instead of 4. Nicaragua and Belize are not better than any of those countries I just mentioned. If anything (if you have to try to make more room for Central American teams), have #6 Central America vs #8 Caribbean... but then all you are going to do is see Nicaragua lose to Barbados (or whoever #8 is). North America - 3 Central America - 5 Caribbean - 8 Would be a good, competative tournament (top to bottom). It was a shame that Jamaica, Guyana, and St. Vincent did not get to play in the past cup, they all had good teams but they had to miss out because there was not enough spots.
Re: disagree Also, none of these teams would take the Cup seriously. Most other federations view CONCACAF as mediocre and bring crap squads every time friendlies are scheduled(Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Uruguay, England, Germany, Nigeria, Iran, etc. have all come here and lost to CONCACAF opposition.) And I think CONMEBOL is in more danger of having a CONCACAF team win down there than one of them winning here, judging by past results.
Starting to change miind After taking a closer look at some of the CONCACAF teams I am beginning to have second toughts about completly ruling out a 16 nation CONCACAF tourney. Time has changed and many of the lower ranked teams have shown huge improvement. Suriname, Guyana, Grenada w/ S Joseph and Roberts to name a few minnows who have shown huge improvement. Even Haiti capturing the Caribbean Cup has shown a huge improvement and they can compete with elite of CONCACAF.....Mex, Costa Rica and Canada. Playing 12 teams now has proven to be a huge success with fan interest and attendance. There were record numbers at 2007 Gold Cup. Once you increase the nations to 16 there may be a drop off in interest in group play...... until the knock out stages. I am sure Warner will not want to risk taking a step backwards if say Barbados is playing Canada in California and 3 k show up for the game. Warner will guard against that. Hopefully having 12 teams will make the other tourneyments like the Caribbean Cup and the UNCAF Cup even more interesting . I think there should only be 4 guaranteed spots for CA teams and 4 guaranteed spots for Caribbean teams. Let the 5th Carribean play the 5th Central American team in a home and away game for the coverted 12th spot. I think 16 teams will be inevitable as long as those other nations show some real interest. ............and someone else will eventually win it besides Mex or the US. You make a good point about Jamaica. IT was a shame not to have the Boyz present with their flair. I believe if there was a playoff involving Jamaica and El Salvador ...Jamaica would have won the series.
If it was increased to 16 teams, double-headers would almost certainly be necessary. And with double headers(and technically fewer matches)a Central American team like Costa Rica could probably host it.
Yes Costa Rica Could host a tourney if all you wanted were teams to play. However if you look at their venues here http://www.worldstadiums.com/middle_america/countries/costa_rica.shtml you can see that they do not have a stadium that hold more that 30,000. You can make an argument that fans do not matter and since it is Costa Rica there probably will not be that many fans anyway. Can you see 10k fans turning our for Canada against Haiti (2 highly ranked teams in Cartago, Costa Rica? Probably not maybe about 500 will show. If you doubt me then look at this link. http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/matchreport/4674.pdf Only 12,000 Tico fans came to watch Costa Rico in Alajuela to qualify for the world cup 2006 against Cuba. BTY the other game in Cuba was tied 1-1 so yes it was an important game for them ...and they did not even sell out. The stadium holds over 17,000. <img src=""> I am all for moving the tourney around just to make it more interesting for fans and it would give the home teams country great exposute if they win a Gold Cup but Antonio CONCACAF is not Europe was other countries do not have the venues or fan interest to make it happen. ....yet.