Diego Maradona 1980 Campeonato de Primera División 1980 Here I consider the games against "top 5 teams", those are River Plate, Talleres, Platense and Unión Campeonato Nacional 1980 Here I consider that the big games are vs Unión and Talleres In total 10 "big games" in season 1980 The 10 games Argentinos Juniors scored 13 goals Diego Maradona scored 11 No-PK goals and made 1 assist 12/13= 92.31%
For Diego Maradona these are the seasons I have counted so far These numbers seem to match what Maradona said in this interview, that the best Maradona played in Argentinos Juniors and Barcelona If you have to vote a Maradona, what team and what year? Maradona from Argentinos Jrs 79-80? from Boca Jrs 81? from Barcelona? from Napoli 87? from sevilla? from the argentine national team? I vote the Maradona from Argentinos Juniors... and the beginning in Barcelona He didn´t touch the floor, was in the air and I love it because I passed them like cones, I had a lot of fun. hear me out, who tell that the best Maradona was the one from Argentinos Juniors, then they don't exaggerate? No, they don't exaggerate So Maradona basically hold a participation percentage of 72.41% through 45 "big games" in five consecutive seasons His teams scored 58 goals. Maradona scored 30 No-PK goals and made 12 assists 42/58= 72.41% I believe without a doubt that this has to be the best peak of any player in football history
I just pinched myself because i must be freaking dreaming How dare you Not a single one of those big games vs platenese,tallares even ones vs Boca is equivalent to even Ronaldinhos best performances vs Chelsea/real Madrid,Neymar vs PSG,van basten vs real Madrid(89) not even van basten vs feyenoord(86/87) Platenese????????? With all due respect...GTFO Ronaldo/messi even ones like peak Luis Suarez would f*cking destroy some random top 4 team from Argentina Diego Maradona Vs Milan 7 goals+4 assists in 16 matches Vs Juventus 5 goals+1 assist in 15 matches Vs inter 4 goals+0 assists in 12 matches Vs real Madrid 4 goals+3 assists in 9 matches https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/diego-maradona/bilanz/spieler/8024 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/diego-maradona/elfmetertore/spieler/8024 21 goals 4 penalties 8 assists 52 games 0.42 non penalty goals+assists per 90 If we include another 'big team" like Roma his open play record becomes even worse
I think you deserve the copyright, Trachta10. Your research is very valuable and cost a sweat. It's surprising that the Brazilian media didn't care about Pelé's legacy of assists; an Argentine had to do it for them, it's not fair. Maybe you should try to sell your research to a Brazilian media that is interested. I don't think you did it out of interest, but you deserve recognition for your work.
I don't know if this is accurate but from a very brief look this shows the world elo ranking of some SA teams in the 1980s Tallares 1980/81 was ranked 168th in the world https://www.besoccer.com/match/talleres-cordoba/ca-huracan/198012257/analysis Platenese would be a complete joke aswell https://www.besoccer.com/match/platense/san-lorenzo/198012226/analysis
Whats surprising about it? The Argentinian media care about Di Stefano's numbers of assists, Maradona's number of assists or Netherlands media about Cruyff's one or Portugal about Eusebio's one etc? I don't think so. Only, with all due respect, stats freaks care about it or the data media for business/sport proposals. But yeah selling other's work is totally dishonest anyway.
Not sure about these Elo ratings for the teams, nice too see that exist some type of some kind of Elo ratings for the players too it seems.
Their metric is probably bad or missing something for South American teams while calculating Santos in 1971 vs Fluminense I know Santos declined by that point , but they were 90th best team in the world?? LMAO don't kill me
The Brazilian ones (teams and players) it is missing the data for sure, which is lowering their Elo ratings for sure, historically for both players and teams, the same problem of GoalImpact for example. Also not sure about the team's point accuracy back in the time.
There is no doubt that the best Maradona was in Argentinos Juniors. But you also need to apply context. Maradona played as false 9 for Argentinos Juniors, Boca and Barcelona and he was a prolific scorer. If I'm not mistaken, he was the top scorer in the Argentine league 5 times. Teams relied heavily on his goals. When he went to Napoli he played further back and with 2 forwards, so his scoring ability declined.
Im not sure what is so controversial about Santos(1971) being ranked 90th in the world after having dropped their level quite a bit in their own country The playing field back then(according to Elo)was more levelled as you are keen to mention so many Times when it suits you In 1970/71 The top ranked team was arsenal 2127 points The 50th ranked team was Roma 1912 points That's 215 points difference A big deal but not WOW http://elofootball.com/index.php?season=1970-1971#club For example this is flamengo vs liverpool in the 1981 intercontinental cup final https://www.besoccer.com/match/flamengo-rio-janeiro/liverpool/19815628/analysis Platenese being ranked 1500th in the world is something though 'Top 4 Argentine team'
Rushing to judgements and probably haven't looked at it for more then 2 minutes Talk about deeply ingrained preconceived biases
I am keen to mention not just because it suits me . Also because its facts Even doing statistical analysis on points table reveals the same Unless they mysteriously did so that it can be used as a source against Carlitos and against modern players
Here , see this : When Santos were touring the world and hammering all European giants , they had a ranking of 97th at their peak (even below 1971 LMAO ) But but... Im not sure what is so controversial about Santos(1971) being ranked 97th in the world after having dropped their level quite a bit ...... Oops wait !! deeply ingrained preconceived biases , HUH ?
You need to have the matches in the database something they don't seems to have, neither for Brazilian League, let alone the others.. the only one seems to be the Libertadores (not at Pelé's time tho). But it is a interesting source even if with bad data.
You omit or add key words in every single point you make When Santos were touring the world and hammering all Europeans giants in friendlies This word is key and changes the whole complexion of your argument We think we know how good/great Santos wouldve fared in a top 5 European league( in competitive matches with real titles on the line) But we don't know
Flamengo was possibly stronger than Liverpool, just the lack of database. Probably only rated the Libertadores matches and it is not enough to push Flamengo's rating up to their real level. Here you have another with Flamengo being the Worlds best team at some point: http://soccerverse.com/teams_and_trainers?team_id=clube-de-regatas-de-flamengo-brazil
Santos would probably bully them imo. Santos wasn't any less than the best Spanish, Italian and Benfica teams who were among the best European ones of 60s. The point in the question is that they have 0 matches in the database for Santos at that period maybe one or other for Libertadores and that would be the max. That's the problem also with GoalImpact etc, they have only data for recent times where South American football isn't performing well while they have much more complete, historical data for countries like Germany or Netherlands, it has no parity.
We don't know what? You talk like they deliberately lost those games like an absolute conspiracy theorist LOL . Imagine going at these lengths for defending something that is clearly obvious and then calling someone else (@Trachta10) autistic in another thread, then accusing someone else of deeply ingrained preconceived biases Santos in 1963 thrased mighty Europeans champions even with pele missing 2nd leg Pele literally molested Benfica in 1962 Even , outside their peak , Santos beat Inter in intercontinetal supercup 1969 Now i know very typical dishonest response of someone like you. Penarol beats Benfica 1961 Penarol thrases Real Madrid 1966 Racing beats Celtic 1967 Estudiantes beat Utd 1968 Infact i can go on till 1970s But apparently they all were accidental . 15 accidents over 25 years infact. This is when Penarol beat real madrid 1966: 228th ranked team looool But apparently its deeply ingrained preconceived biases in my case
Is it just lack of database for only South Americans or for Europeans as well? I would love to see what justifications is brought before me regarding this In 1967 this was the state of the elo points right before the Racing vs Celtic game in Europe. Celtic is placed in 3rd with 1848 points http://clubelo.com/1967-09-11/All It is before the game on Nov 1967 incase he start crying again However , mysteriously in that site , Celtic became 88th team in the world https://www.besoccer.com/match/racing-club-avellaneda/celtic-fc/19674389/analysis LMAO
Just more blaaa You can mention 100 games Pele played vs European club teams Even the most ' competitive' ones were no more competitive then a copa del rey groupstage fixture between real Madrid and some 2nd tier Spanish team The brainchild of former UEFA big cheese Henri Delaunay, the World Club Championship was started in 1960 as a two legged, home and away affair, between the winners of the European Cup and the Copa Libertadores. For some reason, the competition was always seen as much more prestigious by the South American clubs and fans, with the Europeans being much more focused on their domestic leagues and European Cup. Whether or not this explains why the South Americans have the better record in the competition is open to debate, but the competition came in for some right old stick by the European clubs and media. Seen by many as a waste of time, just 2 more games in the season, with no real financial benefit, the competition really started to struggle in the 70's. The 1975 and 1978 competitions weren't even played (the teams couldn't find matching dates in their diaries), and when it was played there was always the whiff of violence in the air (not the terrace violence that was starting to sweep across Europe from groups of Neanderthal fans, but the on-pitch variety from the equally scary South American players against their European counterparts). With some of the European teams worried about risking their best players against this new on-pitch threat, several of them actually declined to play (their places being taken by the runners up in 1971, 73, 74, 77 and 79). http://www.midfielddynamo.com/cups/cups_worldclubchamps.htm South American teams had greater incentives to want to succeed(financial) If top tier European players were earning a rather modest living in the 60s then their SA counterparts were barely scraping a pittance When the livelihood of your family is pretty much on the line you have a much greater incentive to perform then someone who thinks hes just attending a dress rehearsal.
Well. I don't know how it works exactly. But still I find a interesting media. For example it covers Maradona's matches since his early days, it seems he peaked at the end of 1981 (rating 96) but failed to show it in Europe. For example he played the World Cup in 1982 being rated around 86-88. It isn't "competitive" because now the Europeans are winning every match, but 15-25 years ago that wasn't the case. Likewise, it is not guaranteed that a European club playing competitively (as if they really weren't) would have won anything more against the top South American clubs (that point alone makes the match more competitive than any unbalanced match of nowadays). Likewise, Brazilian clubs like Santos often refused to play for Libertadores and some also played with their reserve team. Intercontinental, Libertadores weren't really the priority for them too I guess. In any case I doubt that some, if not several, if not most, if not all of these matches were at least a bit competitive if not really competitive, especially given the fame that South American players achieved in Europe (there was already news of Pelé all over Europe even before his 1958 World Cup, Maradona was already known around the world before his move to Europe). You have to use the right glasses, some of these matches were used by Real Madrid's to hire players of Di Stefano's level out of here, franchise players, Europeans used these matches to test themselves, to play against of some of the best clubs in the world, the stadium was crowded. Today, South American football is regarded with disdain because it is depleted, drained, even tho it isn't as bad as people think, but before, that was another story.
LOOOL dfkm . Excuses after excuses. Really so its like a conspiracy theory And it was no more than a copa del rey match Why did they play with their full team every time Typical excuse of losers . Didn't take it seriously to explain why we lost so many times. Then what happened in the world cups between 1958 to 1978 ? Why did they lose in most them. I guess they didn't take them seriously too perhaps. Infact they needed to cheat in 1966 to win one . Mighty Spanish league which was full of spanish players. Same players who couldn't even do any shit in any world cup from 1962-1970 (didn't even qualify in 1970) and looked like a team from suburbs infront of garrincha And seriously do you even read that article properly? It seemed like you thought Henri Delunay made that statment Its written in that crap article without any source or anything I can literally make bullshit statements from my head right away Your desperation baffles me literally And btw since you like these stories , there are stories and reports of Real Madrid practicing over a month or something like that before the game against Santos in 1959 , which , by same narrative , proves how important those games were. The matches of Santos had more crowds in stadium than even European Cup matches. How does that sounds like ?
Not really If i was a conspiracy theorist i would've attributed benficas loss to the infamous 'Guttman curse' rather then any sort of major gulf in class between the 2 teams https://ghostlyaspectsfolklore.word...a-and-the-curse-of-bela-by-michael-s-collins/ Still im sticking to my guns. European clubs literally had no real incentive to perform or even want to perform in any of these circus tours. SA teams at least from my perception have always suffered from a inferiority complex(probably something psychologically embedded) The need to better or at least be considered on par with their European counterparts something that unites both Argentines and Brazilians "By 'Mongrel Complex' I mean the inferiority in which Brazilians put themselves, voluntarily, in comparison to the rest of the world. Brazilians are the reverse Narcissus, who spit in their own image. Here is the truth: we can't find personal or historical pretexts for self-esteem. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongrel_complex Its why tropiero and Trachta10 have invested 1000s of hours of research into proving the superiority of SA football