1st, I'll say that the biggest part of the failure of our forwards to produce while in the USMNT is a total lack of service. Over the past 10 or so games between the two cups, how many goals did our forwards score in the run of play? They're not getting any service whatsoever. We haven't played with a CAM in any of those games. Even when LD was played centrally, he was played more as a forward. At any rate, LD is a Right Winger masquerading as a CAM. Until the Hardworking Bob plays with a playmaker, all of our forwards will be little more than advanced defenders. Anyway, it's time to pull the trigger on moving Freddie up to the Full nats. He's only months younger than Rooney was when he was playing in the Euro, or Messi in the WC. Granted, Freddie isn't Rooney or Messi - but we're not England or Argentina. Jozy, too. ----------------Altidore Beaz-------------Adu---------Donovan ---------Benny---------Clark Maybe Bradley would take a d-mid spot to give us some more size in the midfield.
I agree with a lot of what you've said... The service hasn't been there especially from the right side of the field... That said, when the forwards got the ball they blew it time after time. However, I think part of us moving to the next level means having quality players, that can easily step on the field at any time and make a big big difference sitting on the bench. We saw Arena try to force up to three left mids on the field at the same time in Lewis, Convey and Beasley... It's not the right way to go. Dempsey for all of his faults just creates chances and scores goals. TO take a guy like that off the field is a little shaky trying to push Adu onto the pitch. You certainly want to play to your strengths but the question needs to be of a comparitive nature. You need to decide if playing 5 in the midfield is better than trading any of Dempsey, Feilhaber, Bradley, Clark, Mastroeni for a youth striker or Johnson, Ching, Twellman. Anyway my biggest point is that we should be getting Adu on the national team soon and often in games when we can afford to bench or move Donovan and see what he can do. Trying to force the two on the field is probably a bad idea and I don't really see it working out unless we move Donovan back to striker beside Altidore. We would drop our 2 D-mid setup and probably play a Bradley-Adu Centre midfield. It worked at the youth level, and half of it is already pretty well proven at the international level, might be worth a shot. If it works out we will have years to sit back and watch it.
I agree that Jozy should be tested in the senior team but unlike most of you I don't think he should play alone up top, because I don't think he's capable of handling a defense by himself(especially at his age), but with help of somebody else(Donovan kind of like adu does at the u20s) he could shine.
I agree that I'd be reluctant to sit Dempsey. I totally agree that it was stupid of Bruce to try to put Beasley at RM. But, putting Freddie at CAM is a completely different thing. FA is a CAM. Beaz is a one-footed lefty. Putting him on the right was a huge gaff. I'd also look at getting rid of the 2 d-mid thing. I hate having 2 d-mids & have posted that a million times. Going back to the Saprissa qualie in '01. I don't know if Freddie could hang w/ just one d-mid behind him. And, if there is just one, it almost has to be Bradley, he's the best defender of the 3. Hate to take BF off the field. Anyway: ------------Altidore----Donovan ------------------Adu Beaz--------------------------------Dempsey -----------------Bradley would play more like -----------------Altidore ----------Adu------------Donovan Beaz------------------------------------Dempsey ------------------Bradley I dunno. Glad I'm not the coach.
Given that the players on the U20 are doing so well right now at their level, lets not forget that there's a huge drop off in talent elevation for our players and players from Brazil from 21-25 yrs. There's no telling if Altidore lives up to the hype, because not too long ago, EJ was thought to be the answers to all the US problems up top. I still would like to see this at some point before the WC2010. -------Cooper-----Altidore-------- ---Mapp------------------Donovan--- ---------Clark-------Feilhaber------ Pearce/Bornstein?---Demerit-----Gibbs----Dolo -----------The one and only------------ Not forgeting Beasley, Convey or Dempsey, but I think if Mapp goes to Europe in the next couple of years, he'll be more polished and a greater threat on the flank, especially if he goes to Holland or Italy. Adu might be in there in Altidore's spot if he's just that damn good. He was damn good in that run against Brazil. I think that's a good blend of talent, skill and speed. I'll only worry if I see this... -----??---TT-- ??---------?? ---Bradley---???--- Albright---???--???---Donovan -------Keller----- Bench: Howard, Adu, Altidore, Cooper, Clark, God, Dempsey, and anyone else better than Albright. Yes, I did put Donovan as a defender to see if he could possible be worse of a defender than Albright.
Twellman is already finish with the national team. he's only good against crappy teams. I personally, want to Ferrari with Altidore on top, with Adu playing behind them. These players need more senior expierence. I like to see players without Donovan, see how well we do without Donovan in creative attacking form. Hopefully, players like Simo, Recken and the kid with serbian name get signed soon, but not with english or german clubs. then our depth would be higher.
Johnson scored 1 goal in 181 minutes at the Gold Cup, and drew and converted a PK with a bunch of crappy teammates in 3 matches at the Copa America. And he has been fantastic in MLS this year. Why so many want to write him off, I don't know.
Look, none of the young guns could do any worse then Twellman. So I would rather play an unknown quantity and take a chance that you get something then play a known quantity where you are guaranteed nothing. Remember when E. Johnson first made his nats debut? Most people thought he is young and fast so why not give him a shot and he proved to be lightening in a bottle for a short period why not try the same thing with our other kids.
EJ has been stedily improving. But if we continue to wait on him we aren't developing any kind of a talent pool... I think there is a good chance EJ at some pointin the future could turn it on and we'll see fit to recall him. Hell, during the gold cup he actually knocked some people over. I remember 3 fouls in the Argentina game too. He's been better, but still not very good, not yet. EJ needs to go back to the MLS, perform well and take a break from the nats. He needs to remember what sprinting is. If I remember right his Gold Cup Goal was one that Donovan layed to him on a dinner tray, wide open in front of goal no keeper. The only things he did right there was A) actually run into position rather than Donovan having to wave at him to move forward and B) not miss (thank god). I'm not saying Altidore is the answer. At times in the u20 cup he has disappeared, he seemed to jog around a bit in a couple of matches and not get in the best positions on the field. He's young and he's got potential. Altidore may do something spectacular, he might suck entirely. The point is if he starts in the friendlies, jogs around, falls down, makes bad passes and muffs shots... that's pretty much the productivity we are getting from anyone else. No difference =-). I've heard good things about Johann Smith. I get the impression he's the Number 2 on that u20 team, shame he got hurt.
Because EJ lacks talent. EJ and Altidore are different kinds of forwards. But whether you're more of a target forward or more of a speedster, you have to have good touch. Jozy is already miles ahead of EJ in that category. In addition, Jozy makes more runs and is more active without the ball than EJ, even though EJ's style demands movement off the ball even more than Jozy's. Those are just two brief reasons why I see absolutely no reason to continue with EJ for the time being. If he can address his deficiencies while playing for KC, then great. If not, then what's the point of calling him up to the Nats? Jozy is ahead of EJ in his technical development and about on par with his physical development. Mentally, he needs the senior level international experience more than EJ does. Go with the youth.
A resounding YES. In fact, following their U-20 performance, I would start Altidore and Adu on top for the next exhibition match. Let's see how well these kids can play with the senior team.
I'm not sure I understand the repeated assertions that Donovan and Adu couldn't co-exist. They could play together in the RAM and LAM positions of the 4-4-2 U (or Y for that matter if Bob would get his head out of his ass): ------------Striker--Striker--------------- ---------Adu------------Donovan--------- ------------Feilhaber-Clark---------------- They could play together in a 4-5-1 with Adu as the 3/4-ista and Donovan on the right (as in RalleeMonkey's post on page 2 of this thread), which in my opinion is probably the best use of all of our available talent. They could play together in a diamond (blech!) with Adu at CAM and Donovan on the right. There are about 400 ways they could play together, so I am forced to assume this is some imagined "chemistry" issue. Since we haven't seen them together, I'm not sure why we assume that they would not be able to mesh.
Where does this come from? The idea that EJ has no touch, no skill with the ball? There are plenty of reasons to criticize EJ. I don't understand why we should imagine more. I think they'll both be on the 2010 WC squad, for what it's worth.
Jozy is ready to get some looks given a succesful season in MLS and the U20s. But I would rather see Cooper and Rolfe get some more chances to prove themselves on the nats. Guys like Davies and Ferrari and Hill can fight to get on track at their clubs. Only guys like Wayne Rooney and Michael Owen have gone straight from junions to full national team roles in front of their club careers. And I don't think we've got any of those kinds of players other than maybe Freddy Adu.
Keep in mind that the positional competition and depth is at a higher level on the English Nat Team then it is for the US. Especially at forward. So, for a US forward to make the jump to the full team, he doesn't need to be as special as Rooney or Owen. If Rooney or Owen were Americans they might have been on the full team much earlier.
Rolfe doesn't belong with the nat. team. A double attacking mid might work out depending on the oponent but for it to be the norm is a bit of a stretch. If it were a question of a 4-5-1 with Adu and Donovan vs a 4-4-2 . at this point I might actually agree that Adu in a dual A-mid role is better than 2 unproven strikers or ANY of our current strikers. Lone mid would still be altidor for me.
I'll admit that Owen and Rooney bumping Alan Shearer and Teddy Sherringham was more challenging than an American teenager bumping Brian Ching or Taylor Twellman but I still think it takes a very special player to be able to compete alongside experienced men when very young. I just don't see "automatic superstar" out of Davies, Hill and Ferrari that would merit bringing them into the full team without earning their way up the chain. These guys need to find some success with their clubs.
Disagree. For one, I guarantee you that Ching, at this moment in time, is a far better international striker than Altidore. I'd bet the proverbial hundred bucks in a heartbeat. For two, dropping the kids in the deep end and telling them they'd better sink or swim before they're ready is a really convenient and easy way to mess with their heads and stunt their development. Let them prove themselves a bit at a time at every level, and in a year or three, as they show signs of being ready, bring them up to the senior level, preferably in a few friendlies against opponents of varying levels, with some good senior support around them. That, I strongly believe, is the best way to break in the young talented (and often slightly high-strung) strikers. I wouldn't be surprised to see some "almost ready" guys like Davies and Hill given a shot or two in the first round of qualifying, though. I'll bet we'll see both, at very least Davies, in European friendlies later this summer/fall.
I agree to a point. I don't think he's either proved nor disproved his naysayers thus far this summer. In my opinion, he's certainly not looking like he's progressing into the sort of scary CONCACAF/respectably dangerous international striker we were all hoping for and thinking he'd be, but... as a member of this team, a lot of guys have a long ways to go before they displace him, I'd say. The only one of the three current strikers who I feel should have real fear of losing his spot on the team really is Twellman. As for Herc Gomez... I never felt that he belonged anyhow, and I don't feel any differently about that now.
Youth movement as a see it. We are thin. Always have been. I'll put it in tiers. Tier 1: Ching, Donovan, Dempsey. I know 2 are out of position. Tier 2: (MLS Vets): Johnson, Twellman, Razov, Cunningham, Wolff Tier 3: Up and Coming MLS: Cooper, Rolfe, Altidore Tier 4: Up and Coming Youngsters: Davies, Ferrari, Smith, Hill, White, etc Tier 5: Play your way on with great MLS performance: Buddle, Cirstman, Noonan, Barrett, Arnaud, Eskandarian, Casey, Gomez, etc. The last couple in Tier 2 may be past their sell dates by 2010, but could help in the next year or two. The next 3 deserve the next looks before anyone else. And no way am I giving up on Johnson at this point. Last year he had a horrible year and was called up consistently anyway. This year he is leading the league in goals. If he continues to play well, (but only if he does) he should keep getting shots.
Let's all remember that, especially at striker, success at MLS does not equate to proportionate success at the international level. I'm of the opinion that you could easily strike half of that list (particularly most of the Tier 5 guys), and that some of the best hopes are the U20s and U23s who frankly are not an upgrade or even a side-grade from Ching, and probably not even Johnson at this point. The main thing we need in the near future is a replacement for Twellman, and hopefully by 2010 we've got at least 2 more that are better than Twellman and the current Johnson, at least one who is as good or better than Ching, but... the last one is a bit of a stretch, unfortunately. In the near future, give it 50/50 odds that Davies or Hill displace Twellman within a year. Cooper or Rolfe... less than 50/50, IMO (but go ahead and give them a couple of call-ups). Altidore, Adu and Co... let's wait until after the Olympics, at least. (And no, I don't think Ching's that good either, but I'd be willing to bet that come 2010, if healthy, he really is the best we've got, as much as it hurts to say that.)