http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=383351&cc=5739 I am very interested to know what reaction this would have in Spain? I know that in the past there have been threats made by the Spanish FA about what they would do if Gibralter ever gained entry but I wondered if it was just hot air, do you really think the Spanish FA would strike etc?
The Spanish FA will kill this in January (so I've read) because they have enough votes from UEFA member associations to kill Gibraltar's move. Villar (Spanish FA president) apparently has the loyalty of poorer/smaller nations (beats me why, but I guess he is a UEFA policymaker), and Gibraltar will not get enough votes to join UEFA. Just a reminder, Villar is VP of UEFA, so the chances of this slipping past him are slim indeed.
No, Villar is VP of the FIFA Excecutive Committee, at UEFA he is only Third vice-president. The President/chairman and Chief Excecutive are both Swedish, 1st vice Presiden is Turkish and the 2nd VP is Norwegian, then Villar is 3rd VP while the 4th VP is English. ...and which small and poorer members are we talking about then ?... As you probably know then this decision will be taken by UEFA's Excecutive Committee which only have 14 members (the usual top nations and a few smaller), and as written with mainly the smaller Scandinavian members Sweden and Norway being in the top leadership of the Excecutive Committee. .
From what I understand the UEFA Exec. Committee can only grant temporary admission. This would have to be ratified by the UEFA Congress, in which all 52 UEFA associations cast a vote. Villar is confident that he would have enough of those 52 votes to block ratification. Or so he says. In any case, including Gibraltar is a stupid move. It is NOT an independent country and it has none of the tradition of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I'm sure it's within the UK's right to present as many national associations as it pleases, but this is just ridiculous. It would just include another two meaningless games in an already overcrowded schedule. Anyway, this is being used as a political tool, it has zip to do with soccer. I don't know why every time anyone has a political agenda they have to include sport in it, it just annoys everyone and polarizes positions. It's not like UEFA membership can be used as an argument for independence, the idea is simply stupid.
Faroe Islands also are not independent (they are part of Denmark), and they are also a member. So that can't be a reason to block Gibraltar. I agree that it will add meaningless matches, but I think everybody should at least have a chance to compete. If you want to eliminate meaningless matches, you should make a preliminary round, and not exclude the weak teams at all.
If they, as a country, want to compete, that's good, by all means let them do it. But in this case (and others) they don't want to compete, they want to make a political statement using participating in international soccer institutions as a springboard for political independence. The people that are pushing this couldn't care less if Gibraltar loses every game 5-0 or 10-0, once they have made the political statement of joining UEFA they will forget all about the soccer and move on to more pressing matters.
Would they play as Brittish? or as an independent country? Don't they consider themselves Brittish? I might be wrong.
Didn't you hear that Pope Benedict plays for San Marino and those guys still can't score a goal! Viva Er Beti Manque Lopera! Er Pichi
The press release yesterday by UEFA is shameful and disgusting how can they accept provisional membership for Gibraltar and in the same breath recomend members to vote against it? This action can only be due to the political motivations of the Spanish FA who keep blocking Gibraltar in every single sporting association they want to join. This is an association who claims in its Mission statement that they wish to "increase access and participation, without discrimination on grounds of gender, religion or race, and support growth in the grassroots of the game." UEFA discrimination against Gibraltar is not just a recent thing, they changed the rules of application so only nations recognised by the UN. Remember that neither England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland or Faroe Islands are UN member nations. Following a ruling by the CAS which UEFA shamefully lost twice UEFA was order to give provisional membership and consider for full membership in their next exec meeting. This was in October and they delayed the ruling because Spain claimed the football pitch Gibraltar uses is under "disputed territory" using a treaty from 1713 as supposed evidence. The equivalent of saying that Cuba, Florida, California and countless other territories should be returned to Spain. It is about time that UEFA stopped their discrimination against Gibraltar and accept them as a part of European Football like the Basketball, Hockey, Cricket and other countless associations have done. This has nothing to do with politics, all Gibraltar want to do is develop football as they have successfully developed skills in the above mentioned sports. They are the only territory in Europe with no representation. This has also nothing to do with saying that this will lead to more meaningless matches, that is a totally different problem which UEFA needs to address and prequalifying would solve. If you wish to read more about the real story and not the Spanish Govts propaganda: http://www.gfa.gi/uefa.htm
A treaty is a treaty, no matter when it was signed. That same 1713 treaty that you show so much contempt for (the treaty of Utrecht) is the same one that says Spain cedes Gibraltar to England. You are being a demagogue about the treaty, because Cuba, Florida and California were ceded away with similar treaties; enforcing ther 1713 treaty is not the equivalent of returning those territories to Spain: in fact, it is NOT enforcing the 1713 treaty that is analogous to returning those territories. So if you want to do away with the Treaty of Utrecht because it's old news, as you suggest, then do away with the whole thing, not only with the bit that says your football pitch is built outside your territory. Old as it is, the Treaty of Utrecht is the basis for Gibraltar's status quo, so I'd be careful about touching it.
Laudrup your answer is laughable. Are you suggesting you apply to the letter a treaty that includes that Jews and Moors are to be expelled from the territory, moorish ships are to be shot down and "neutral territory" is to be earmarked as the length of a cannon ball shot? This has nothing to do with politics or the distorted history that you have studied at school, typical spanish "gibraltar espanol" attitude, this is about a territory developing is football. Look for the european Hockey federation and see how developed the sport has become in Gibraltar due to regular international competition. Spain and Gibraltar compete in these events with no problems why can't this happen in football?
I don't know what's more laughable, me trying to interptret it "to the letter" (where did I say that in my post?) or you only applying the bits that you like and ignoring the ones that you don't like. The Treaty of Utrecht IS a legally binding document to this day and if there is any problem with any of its clauses it has to be gone over by BOTH signataries. Like the bit about shooting moors down, if both sides agree not to apply it, then all's good. But if there's a territorial dispute then you have to go back to the treaty. There's simply no other way. Now THAT is laughable. Despite what you may think, I don't have a serious problem with Gibraltar joining UEFA. Read my previous posts on it. My problems are that a) UEFA needs to redo their schedule and make Gibraltar, San Marino, Luxembourg et al. play amongst themselves before Euro and WC qualifiers per se... and b) Gibraltar wants to make a political statement and wants to have the media exposure that comes from playing Spain, England, Italy, or Germany every once in a while. In my experience, the relationship between sports and sub-national units is NEVER only about sports.
I think then Spain should be expelled as well, if Gibralta can't play then neither should they. If Gibralta was granted full independence then they couldn't stop them joining, maybe that's the answer.
And why not extend it to Italy, Germany, Holland, Russia, Croatia, Denmark ...etc etc ...none of whom want Gibraltar to play (because Gibralter does not have the correct national status to play, let alone the footballing infrastructure). Maybe then the 4 home nations could contest the european Championships alone with at least a small chance of winning it...assuming gibraltar don't beat them.
National status? That is an arbitrary definition. If we grant Gibralta independence, what will your objections be then?
Not really ...its a very clearly defined status and Gibralter does not fulfill the the statutary terms of either fifa or uefa in terms of international recognition. As for independence...Spain would argue that it is not yours to grant. And Britain would not grant it anyway.
What's it got to do with Britan? Turkey thought they could grant independent nation status to the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, but that didn't lead to the required international recognition.