http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1076173,00.html Had you been perusing the small print in these pages a couple of weeks back you might have read that Borussia Dortmund's home attendance for the German league game against Hannover 96 was 80,500. Whereupon you might have rubbed your eyes, squinted and looked again. No, there was no mistake. Today Dortmund play Hamburg at home and once again the attendance figure at the Westfalenstadion will be the highest anywhere in Europe this weekend. Yesterday Dortmund's neighbours, Schalke 04, hosted Bayern Munich and while this column is being written before the game it will put its neck cheerfully on the line and assert that the crowd will have exceeded 60,000 - beaten only by Real Madrid, Manchester United and Milan versus Juventus last night at the San Siro. Now, while you almost certainly would not be alone in judging that there are better ways to spend your Saturday nights than staying at home watching the highlights of a league whose most charismatic player is Oliver Kahn, the fact of the matter is that for the first time average attendances in the Bundesliga are higher than they are in the Premiership, La Liga and Serie A. Before yesterday's games the average crowd in Germany was 36,492, up 2,500 on last season; in England, 34,816; in Spain, 29,345; and in Italy 26,084.
That's cool except for this little swipe: "... there are better ways to spend your Saturday nights than staying at home watching the highlights of a league whose most charismatic player is Oliver Kahn..." There are lots of charismatic players in the Bundesliga. And Kahn is actually one of them. An ape on the pitch, but very eloquent off it. At least the Bundesliga isn't full of yobs like the Premier League.
Anyone ot some pics of this Dortmund stadium? Any reason why their stadium is so big compared to teams like Bayern Munich or Bayer Leverkusen? As a person who only gets to watch 2 German games a weekend thanx to FSW, I came to a conclusion that Bayern Munich and Bayer Leverkusen are the 2 biggest teams in germany?
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadiu...ein_westfalen/dortmund_westfalenstadion.shtml oh and replace bayer with dortmund and i think you've got it
The Westfalen is home to the biggest standing tribune in Europe. Jonam, what is its name again? I know it holds like 20-30,000.
really? The announcer always mentions how Bayern Munich and Bayer Leverkussen are the 2 biggest and most popular/hated teams in Germany. That stadium seats 80, 000 ? wow...
Olaf will be able to give you full details, but the most popular clubs in Germany are definitely Bayern and Dortmund. Whoever has been saying Leverkusen is selling you guys a bill of goods. Leverkusen was a very mediocre team until they first challenged for the title in the 1996-1997 season. Since then they've (quite) consistently played in the CL and finished near the top of the league table, but in terms of fan potential they are still way down the list. Leverkusen has suffered from two major problems in this respect: 1) It's image as a "plastic" club - in other words, manufactured by its sponsor Bayer AG (which produces plastics in addition to pharmaceuticals) - and 2) its proximity to traditionally popular local clubs such as FC Cologne, Fortuna Düsseldorf and Mönchengladbach. Leverkusen for all intents and purposes is a suburb of Cologne, and most people there have been FC Cologne fans for eons. People don't just change their loyalties at the drop of a hat. Dortmund is so huge because it's located in the middle of a densely populated, working class area - the Ruhr river valley, which was traditionally based on manufacturing and coal mining, etc. (although Schalke is more the coal miners' club). Add to that the fact the Dortmund has been a relatively successful club over the years and even won the Champions' League not too long ago, and that explains the club's popularity. By the way, Bayern does have a large stadium. The Olympic Stadium I believe seats 69,000 (or is it 63,000?). It's rarely full, though, because the atmosphere is like a cemetary despite the stadium's attractive design.
also, the picture of the Westfalen Stadion above is outdated. they filled in the 4 corners last year with seating which expanded the capacity to the current 80,000+. I stood on the nordtribuehne last year for the game against werder bremen. amazing. really amazing. too bad the english have had such a problem with violence that they aren't allowed to have standing terraces---perhaps they're a bit jealous and therefore feel the need to take swipes at the bundesliga, such as the quote about ollie, above.
Actually the Westfalenstadion has a Bundesliga capacity of 83.000 (56.000 seats and 27.000 terrace places). For UEFA matches there is a capacity of 67.000 seats available. The "Südtribüne" holds 25.000 terrace places and is according to BVB the biggest terrace stand in Europe. For UEFA matches it can be converted into a stand with 10.500 seats. The Munich Olympiastadion has a capacity of 69.000 but Bayern sells only 63.000 of this as the lower rows have a massive restricted view (curiously 1860 sold all of the 69.000 tickets in Munich derby the last years) some links: -Westfalenstadion before the first expansion (till '95): http://www.tempelreporter.de/html/ansichten_vorher1.html (www.tempelreporter.de) -Third expansion (during the construction works): http://www.schwatz-gelb.de/stein-auf-stein/index-aktuell.htm (www.schwatzgelb.de) -Since September '03, when the third expansion was finished: http://www.tempelreporter.de/html/september_2003.html (www.tempelreporter.de) -Pictures of this season's matches: http://www.schwatzgelb.com/schedule/schedulepro0304.htm (various sources) -Two articles I wrote some months ago about the history of the Westfalenstadion: http://www.schwatzgelb.com/artikel.php3?welcher=326 http://www.schwatzgelb.com/artikel.php3?welcher=374 -A stadium list of how Germany's future stadiums will look like: http://www.schwatzgelb.com/fanservice/stadiums.htm (www.schwatzgelb.com) -AND A HIGHLIGHT......PICS TAKEN FROM A HELICOPTER BEFORE AND DURING THE BVB-BREMEN MATCH! http://www.stadion-live.de/tempelblicke/images/luftbilder_pp_dortmund/luftbilder.htm (www.stadion-live.de) jonam, http://www.schwatzgelb.com
I really want to go there. Even if I don't speak German, it will certainly be one of the most memorable experiences of my life.
Wow thank you for all of the info on Dortmund, their stadium, and all the other german stadias. Good stuff. Makes you wonder how German teams can have such big stadiums while only 2 teams in England top 50, 000.
Because in England are only three big teams outside London: ManU, Newcastle and Liverpool. ManU and Newcastle have 50k+ stadiums and Liverpool is planning/building one. The other big teams are placed in London, where Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham have to share the audience. Another reason is that the ticket-prices are much higher than in germany, so that there are less people who can afford one, what I think is a very bad development, cause football is a peoples sport and should be affordable for everyone, just the way it is in germany! Another reason is that the german fans are soooooooooo loyal, that even if their club isn´t playing at the top, they will keep going to the games(like in Kaiserslautern, Koeln or Moenchengladbach) In the future there will be even more 50k+ stadiums in germany! If you havn´t seen this website jet, you should definitly take a look at this, to get an overview on the german stadiums and those that are under construction(on those of england too): www.fussballtempel.net
Yeah, thats probably another good reason..................... 48mio against 80mio looks kind of unfair, but you have to see that there are big parts of germany where no big soccer club is in the closer area. soccer is concentrated in some areas like NRW. The fascinating thing is that in this relatively small area, so many big footballclubs can exist, while having an attendance of 50k or more! In the ruhrgebiet area are living less people than in London(5,5mio to 7,5mio), but the three biggest clubs(Söldner04, BVB, Bochum) there have an average attendance of together 160k people!!!!!!! While Chelsea, Tottenham and Arsenal have an average attendance of 115k people........
you have to admit that the guardian is a funny site! they always make me laugh! just look at one of their new articles below Kahn demands action not words Likeable German goalkeeper Oliver Kahn wants Bayern Munich to let their football do the talking. If only he did. LOL! notice the world "likeable" im telling you the guardian are comedic geniuses!
This forum rocks! It is truly amazing how fans of a different league and primarily in another country are unique in their own way. BVB does have a HUGE stadium and it is really amazing how Bayern (one of the most successful clubs in the world doesn't sell out) like other European powerhouses. I wonder why? The whole corporate feeling about Bayer bothers me, don't know why, but it does. Still haven't found the German club for me. Shucks!
Re: This forum rocks! Two reasons: first, the stadium is not exactly a joy to watch soccer in. It is large and open with a track around the pitch. Atmosphere is non-existant as any noise escapes out into the Olympiapark. Second, Munich (the city) is known for having a wealthy, glitzy image. The hard-core, working-class soccer fans tend to be 1860 fans, and 1860 is not consistently good enough to attract a large fan base. Bayern's fans base to a large extent comes from the surrounding area, so they pick and choose what games to go to. And the "Schicki-Mickis" from Munich either choose the glamorous games or they don't go at all. Don't kid yourself: all clubs are corporations nowadays. The days when the players came from the same town as the club are over. Football is big money and there is little difference between Bayer and anyone else in this regard.
Re: Why Stuttgart? i remembered you outlining the type of team you'd appreciate and it describes them - have you seen them play yet? they are easy to like EDIT-they play at eintracht frankfurt on FSW saturday (930 am EST)
Many of the London stadiums used to hold 50,000ish with terrraces. When they were converted into all-seaters, the capacities dropped dramatically.
My English friend told me that terraces were great...exciting group and truly passionate fans got those seats at cheap prices, but the violence wrecked it.
Re: Re: This forum rocks! Pah, how is it possible for Leverkusen with a 22,500 stadium to have such an expensive team? There is still a difference between these club (and Wolfsburg, too) and the others. They have almost no fans but are pumped with money.