**General News Thread**

Not sure how you can say position is less important when discussing this. In attacking midfield you simply have much less time on the ball especially playing for a larger side who face packed defenses regularly. By the end of his time as our number 1 AM, he had lost all confidence with pretty much every attack breaking down through him. He was practically hiding from the play because that was better than losing it. Not what a 10 is.
When he has space on the ball then we get to see a guy who can thread those passes, sometimes through a needle but against top opposition that becomes harder with less time to react. Here you need something more, body shielding, cleverness to take someone one in a tight position and the ability to make something out of nothing. All of these things he does not possess. But the technical quality is there to play in the role he now has when we have a full squad available.

I dont take much away from his 1st half performance against Bologna for example. A side that doesn't show up for 45 mins and gives good players 2 yards of space to take a touch and think is asking for trouble. Compare his second half performance in that game to get a better picture of him.


The 2nd half v Atalanta was the perfect chance for him to step up and lead in cm. This is where his real potential lies but its these 45 mins that take a good player into a great one. When the team needs a leader to step up thats how they make their story. Now you can say he is only 24 but its these situations that make something more for a career. Games turn into seasons and seasons turn into careers. Will we still be asking him to show up at 26 and hoping?

Dropping out of the AM limelight and into a role at cm is better suited to him, both mentally and technically but he still occupies a key role when playing here. I do have much more patience with him here as he is learning. From here he can knit play with keep ball passes while waiting of the moment to thread his forward passes to feet between the lines or an over the top through ball. He just isnt good enough under pressure to play further up regularly. When he has to fill in as a AM in this current formation there is less weight on him with 2 players behind Dzeko but it still can be painful to watch when Roma's in a competitive game.

I give him such a hard time to because clearly the technical quality is there but its frustrating to see the mental side is not. Combine that with him being a local boy with break out potential, he will be given more slack than others from management while holding an important position in the side.

 

Veretout Pellegrini as a base with Mika or a fit Zaniolo ahead of them is a decent lineup. It gives a nice balance in responsibilities and we have seen Pellegrini add to his work rate from cm. Something that will continue to come with more experience. Pellegrini as AM was a big problem with the previous lineup as he was directly responsible for being the main guy in the link play which he clearly couldn't fill. The current formations strength is coming from our good selection of mobile center backs alongside wingbacks and working players now behind Dzeko. It is by far best suited to our squad.

If you had a team of top class talent to play the previous 4-2-3-1 and had Pellegrini starting in the hole he would still be the issue. CM is the only spot he can become a top class player who can affect the big games. Its up to him how big a career he wants.

 

Dumb comment, much like your soccer insights, simplistic. It's a systemic problem. Speed over skill and more running less formation. Where are the new Totti, Zidane, Riquelme and Ronaldinho's? I get you probably only remember one of them, but all the same. Instead we have Geymar, Banega, MBappe and Chiesa. It's due to the popularity of the EPL and fans like you who think high scoring games are "so cool man" and that's all that's worth watching. We get a dumbed down product for dumbed down fans.

 

You can imagine anything you want, it doesn't make it true. Here's one that is, imagine if you actually understood the game, or it's history. Imagine you actually could sit through a game without wondering "when are theys gun score?"

I never talked about classic #10's.

Yes Captain Obvious, the game is much faster and the players they are producing are speed over skill as a result. You have to cut somewhere to focus on the faster game. And like I said, because the EPL is popular and generates a lot of revenue the focus on what sort of player and system to produce has dumbed the game down.

Messi is a different player, and at the end of his career, I asked where the rest are, and you give me De Bruyne as equivalent to the Totti's, Zidanes, Ronaldinho's and Riquelme's of the past? Imagine that.

You're joking if you think that Totti or Zidane couldn't be stars or as effective in today's game just because it's much faster, and without even knowing it you're conceding to the point I made that a faster game isn't a better game and isn't making better players, the contrary is true, which you concede by admitting no Tott's or Zidane's exist anymore. Well done knucklehead.

Bayern is just an example of a team that can pick apart today's sloppy speed before brain tactics. Nothing to write home about. You probably loved them picking Barcelona apart and think that the sport evolved because of all those goals.

 

Do you have a problem with English?

I said they were an example of a team that can pick apart the sloppy play of today's teams.

"Bayern is just an example of a team that can pick apart today's sloppy speed before brain tactics"

Barcelona was unorganized and sloppy and Bayern punished them. If you like that sort of thing, you are not a football fan. One team basically shooting goals into an empty net would be equally exciting.

lol

Like I said you can imagine whatever you want, like you do when you believe you understand the game, but none of it is true.

Let's get back to the subject.
Where are the Totti's, Zidane, Riquelme's, Ronaldinho's of today?

I don't ignore them, but they're on the way out. So who's going to replace them? De Bruyne, Mbappe?

And there we have it. Thanks for proving my point. Goals = better game to you, like it was easy to see from the beginning. Sloppy formation, but run fast = good quality.

There were tons of players like that in every era.

I'm asking you about the players that had vision and could create out of nothing.

Where are they?

Having good feet doesn't automatically make you into a Pirlo. If this is the way you see the game, it's more simplistic than I thought.

Every generation had many of them. Again, where are the ones of the next generation?

Zidane, Totti, Dinho, Riquelme all existed in the same generation, along with Del Piero, R9, Kaka, Figo

Again, they're on the way out, who's replacing them? Mbappe?

So you're saying there are none right now, like I've been saying from the beginning. Good we agree. That wasn't so hard was it?

 

Sending love and prayers to Morgan De Sanctis today after last night’s serious car accident. Wishing you a full and speedy recovery Morgan 🙏 pic.twitter.com/oa6kG5qFGH

— Jim Pallotta (@jimpallotta13) January 6, 2021

 

And that is where you're very wrong. There are a caliber of player who you still to this day fit your team around as the guy. Currently there is not a central player of this quality that exists though.(could we have dreamed of Zaniolo in future before 2 blown knees. He looks destined for it, now it would be a miracle really) You can say De Bruyne but hes not at that level . He is very good but hes not a magician.

Football is all about variety. While its fair to say football has got faster and team work is better, the dynamic of the game isnt really changing. There is always 1 or 2 top players even in the best of teams currently who you look to make something happen. Same applies down through the teams. Theres generally 1 or 2 you look to make something happen. But the very rare players when mentioning a Zidane or a Totti are generational talent, maybe every 2nd generation. These are players above top class/world class talent and when they come along you make your team work for them. Players/systems go in and out of fashion. the 10 might be out right not but give it time for the right player to enter again.

 

Give up. You've been exposed. You can't give me any names of current players that I keep asking you to, and you don't do English very well.

And you complain about fans who have watched more than one generation of the game, while demonstrating you only have ever watched one generation. Obviously Totti was the only one on that list you saw, and probably near the tail end of his career.

This next generation, not the last one, who's going to be the players like Zidane, Ronaldinho, Totti, Riquelme.

You keep leaning on Messi, Ronaldo and now Kroos, which has to be a troll attempt, and others like Modric who are at the end of their careers. Modric, equivalent to Pirlo, not the ones I mentioned, btw.

Changing goal posts. You brought it based on goals, which I called you out on early on. You're a high goal = good game fan, a simple one that understands little. To you the Germany/Brazil destruction of 2014 was better than the Germany/Italy chess battle of 2006.

Ronaldo and Messi are in the generation that are going out. Your English is poor, so I'll ask again, where are the Totti's, Ronaldinho's, Zidane's, and Riquelme's of this generation. Let's see if you can answer that without trying to change the goal posts again.

Mbappe is a product of speed. He couldn't do what Totti, Zidane and the others I mentioned do on playstation.

LOL, no. It's continuing degeneration of tactics as you can see easily with the current favorite 4-3-3 in play, the increased focus on speed and the general lack of organization in defensive systems, removal of the pure defensive midfielder. All of which are designed to create higher scoring games for beer drinking fans, like you.

Brazil 1970, 1982, Italy 1982, Germany 1990, Brazil 1994, France 1998, Italy 2006, Spain 2010, Germany 2014 weren't built around on or two playmakers anymore. It's just that playmakers like the ones I described don't exist anymore, and I explained why. It's to appeal to fans like you, simple ones.

You really don't know what you watched, do you? Or you didn't watch. Either way, you're clueless if you think that. Those kinds of players raise the game of others, so you might think everything flows through them and if thats true in some instances it's just because they did amazing things with the ball, had it more, and the illusion that they were the only one on the pitch was strong. Lastly, if you don't think that flowing through one player exists anymore, watch Juve when Ronaldo plays, or watch Messi when he plays with Argentina, and stop while you're ahead,

 

He's watched for a couple years, obviously. He's angry that others who have watched for a few generations can see the differences. He's funny when he tries to dismiss them for being biased, but can't catch his own.

Simple fan.

If Totti were to come about today in the 10'less systems we see, do you think they would be like "Nah, nope, can't use this kind of player!"? Of course not, they would just find a way to use him, change the formation and tactics. They're just not around anymore. Totti is a natural athlete. He would mostly likely be conditioned to be faster and that would take away from the focus on touch and skill. If you increase the metrics in one direction, it's going to take away from the other to some degree. Messi is fast, but not Ronaldo fast. He has way better vision though.

Whil wants to just focus on those two players because he knows he can't pick out a player of Totti, Zidane, Ronaldinho or Riquelme's abilities in the current game. They don't exist. De Bruyne is hilarious really.

 

I know what youre trying to say but dude come on, its not like 10 years ago players couldnt pass or create chances and the team at all times relied on 1 player. The game is changing but its not changed that much. Zidane ran the team from the centre but also dont forget he was hard af and dirty when he needed to. Guy like that today is worth I dont want to even guess.

I am just specifically talking about the special players. Really special. You cant compare a Totti or a Zidane to the current bunch but if there was one around today then a manager would still be telling his squad who the guy is to get the ball to. His teammates would know as well instinctively because you have a much better chance of winning.

Totti might not get away with walking around the pitch today when the ball was lost but when the team get the ball they would seek him out because they are genius level players. You're overthinking this when its really not that complicated. You put these players in their prime beside the best today and they are still head and shoulders above the rest and the tactics follow suit.

 

Ah yes when they dominated with Peps special doctor who then had the laptop burned by the Judge to save Spains pride at the time. The same Xavi and Iniesta who all of a sudden racked up 60+ games with no injuries and no lose of intensity every performance. As good a players as they were "naturally", I think its pretty clear what they were up to. They played good football and did dominate the game for a period but for the past number of years Peps football has faded and he has been tactically outsmarted.

Souness said it well, someone who I dont often agree with, for a period in the last decade there became an obsession to follow Pep and everyone try to play the same but you see thats not healthy for the sport? What was healthy was seeing good organisation and counter destroy Pep. Recently in games like Lyon and Leicester he was exposed. I love it because it kills him to see a long direct play into targeted space cut his 100 passes down. This is football. Tactical battles with different styles. You dont enjoy a small side sneaking a goal and then hanging in their for the rest of the game stealing the 3 points? Getting a Pep to cry. All part and healthy for the game. Even a shit Chievo has their place.
Pep and the whole team become creators is one style. You seem to think everyone is and should be heading that way. That players even 15 years couldnt create without one man. All these points being wrong. Recall Romas lineup of Cafu and Candela on the wings. Did they not constantly get up and down the line, linking and creating alongside Totti? When you say back then the whole team relied on one player and now everyone helps out, its really trying to simplify down something that wasnt the case like theres become unlimited progress since. Its just we had a special era of incredible central players and if a young Zidane or a Totti came about today we would see the same players because no manager could deny their talent and try to pigeon hole them. Unless you're a control freak like Pep so the players would go play for another manager who understands it.

I will go into coaching eventually so I have read a few books on tactics. Read up on Juves 4-3-3 in 95 and tell them that wouldnt be to this day a system that couldnt work? How the front 3 changed position depending on were the attack started. That system would counter Pep into the dirt.

Bayern I would agree with you, for me the closest to what total football is as a concept. They can play any which way and I put them above Pep's Barca.

I like the analogy of total football as the whole tree. Pep's style is one branch.

 

Give it up. I keep asking one question you keep changing your answers to suit your imagination.

Either list these geniuses coming up, or concede you're just a big time goal = best game eva fan.

I keep asking in the coming generation. Not the exiting one. Obviously unless you are worst at English than I thought, you've understood this. That you refuse to do so and continue to change the goal post shows that you have nothing.

Messi and Ronaldo are fine comparables to the generation that had more than two, but Suarez and Leqandowski are not. They're goal scorers, lol. This generation, however, has none. Give names or bow out with your tail between your legs.

It's not funny. You said that all 11 players today are visionaries and no longer do you see teams trying to work through one player. I gave you two examples that prove your statement wrong. It's sad that you're so clueless.

If you're going to run from actually answer my questions, so be it. I predicted that long ago, like I said you were a high goal = best game fan, and you finally conceded that too.

You're simple, and wrong, and have no clue. No more needs to be said.

 

When was Madrid only Zidane?
Totti's Roma of 2000-2006 was better than the last 10 years edition. So the teams weren't built around them, just like Ronaldo's madrid was stacked and Messi's Barcelona. If Zidane and Totti had teams built around them because they stood out, then you can make the same argument for the current two at their big clubs.

Your narrative is simplistic, and wrong. Get used to it.

Do you really need a list of excellent defenders, better than any we have today, being able to contribute to the attack from the 60's onwards? Really?

So you're really going to go with Madrid only being Zidane, Juventus even? Do you not remember who they had on those teams? You really going to go with Roma being only Totti from 2000-2006?

Best players aren't crucial? That's so laughable.

Juventus never declined after Zidane left either. That still doesn't mean we have Zidane level quality players coming up through the ranks today. Still waiting for you to mention even one, that isn't Messi or Ronaldo, who are not the next generation but the current one that is on the way out in a few years.

 

It's simple. He repeats narratives like "everyone has to be good with their feet today, even goalkeepers" and believes that this was never ever the case in the past. That in the past there weren't any organized tacticians and teams that played like a unit, when the 90's pretty much embodied that definition and it just happened in today's game. His whole argument is speed is better and everyone is a creator today. Totally ridiculous.

 

This is a myth. Teams were no more built around Zidane in his time than they are built around Ronaldo at Madrid, or Messi with Barcelona.

Balls tend to flow more through talented players because ((drum roll)) they are talented and you try to get your more talented players involved.

If Madrid was built around Zidane then, then it was built around Ronaldo now, and same for Messi.

14 years between them or not makes no difference.

 

How many times did it take before everyone figured out how to beat Barcelona/Spain. Prandelli showed it first in 2012 opening match, then forgot in the final. Scolari did it again in 2013 Confederation cup. Holland dismantled them in 2014, and from there on any team who pressed them high and had solid organized defense could give them troubles and even destroy them. Bayern caught them and dummied them in the summer because Barcelons was so sloppy and unorganized at the back, I guess they weren't 11 players that could create that day.

He thinks every team already is, which is laughable. In one sentence he says one player cannot be the focus of any team any more, and in the next he says "well you just named two" when I gave him Juventus and Argentina as examples. Whill doens't know left from right.

I guarantee you that was well before he started watching.

Right, and there were more than a handful of said players. Today whil can come up with only Messi and Ronaldo. For the next generation whill does a good cricket imitation.