As you know, that happens just as much in England [Ask Will Packwood, Marc Pelosi, Kris Scott from the last couple of years. Ask Stuart Holden. Ben Olsen's career took a U-turn after an injury suffered at Forest. We can go on and on.]
Zelalem in U.S. under-23 camp before Olympic qualifying http://www.espnfc.us/united-states/story/2585418/gedion-zelalem-selected-for-us-under-23-camp
Zelalem on comparisons to Pirlo: "I still have a long way to go...[but] I definitely think I will reach that level." Not lacking in confidence...
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...Zelalem-Rangers-Scotland-Transfer-News-Gossip I have been impressed by Zelalem in the three games that I have seen him play, but his competition can be very weak so it is hard to tell exactly how much he is progressing. I would love to see him in the English Championship in the Spring, but who knows? Regardless, it is nice to know that Arsenal are keeping close tabs on him during his time up there. He is playing like he feels accountable for what he is doing on a week in, week out basis. The extra physicality is probably good for preparing him for a higher level of play, but he still has loads of time and space that he won't have at any decent level of play.
He still isn't quite there yet from a physical standpoint. He is targeted for some extracurricular activity by D mids and loses some duels he should win on the ground and in the air. His decision making is top notch for his age group but I think guys like Hyndman and Luis Gil are a little ahead of him right now from a competitive standpoint. A guy like Zelalem is the centerpiece of a roster. He is not a wide player, he is not a 1v1 technician and he is not a physical player. Without the ball he moves well but can drift. We will see where he is at in over the next 2.5 years and maybe by then he will be ready to add something to the senior team but right now he is far from that. Guys like Kieswetter, Morris and Miazga could add to the senior side RIGHT NOW.
I disagree. When the U23 roster was put together, the coaches first had to figure out who was available (released to play, not injured, etc.). Once that was sorted, they had to balance a number of things. Of course that includes selecting players who fit the style and formation, but also have flexibility in playing position because of the quick turnover in games. However, there is also consideration given to moving players up through the pyramid. Clearly, everyone knew that Zelalem was identified as a bright prospect. Having him play here is just one more step in accelerating his growth. There was also very little risk in including him, unless you think that having him on the roster as opposed to another MF will have a major effect on whether we win or lose against Honduras. No, he hasn't been as influential as some might have hoped, but he convinced me, at least, that he can play at this level. My hope is that by the time the Olympics roll around, he will have matured to where he can be counted on to be more impactful. Stay tuned...
I do think others could've helped more. We could've gotten another impact player at this level in there. You don't think Sean Davis could help at this level any more than Zelalem? I certainly think he could. In most countries, their Olympic squads are mostly players born in 93 or 94. Players three, four, five years younger only make the teams if they are an exceptional player already. With us, our coaches treat it like any prospect who they rate within three or four years of the age restriction has a chance to make the team, and it doesn't matter how they play or their readiness to play at this level, as long as they maintain some level of good prospect status after the tournament, which they do since players aren't going to lose their skill-set from playing poorly. Bad performances can easily be spun (not physical enough, not active enough, teammates have lower soccer IQ, no chemistry with teammates because new to team, etc.) Our fans think the same way. I just don't happen to think that gives us particularly good results or even helps these prospects that much. I don't think Zelalem should've been on this team, I don't think Hyndman should've been on this team, I don't think Tall should've been on this team, I don't think Ariyibi should've been on this team. Thats not anything against them as prospects, but unless a tournament like this is purely to put the spotlight on these prospects, why are we calling in players who aren't producing as well as we could get from these positions?
I get that you don't rate Zelalem. But Hyndman, really? He's done well in providing a good link to the frontrunners. He's not fancy, but he has an assured presence about him, and you can generally count on him to be consistent. If I had to pick out one player who is a pleasant surprise, it is Ariyibi. This guy flies under the radar at League One Chesterfield (what are they, sponsored by a tobacco company? ), but even though he has rough edges to his game, he's posed a legitimate speed threat on the left wing. Maybe he'll go back to Chesterfield and slink into oblivion, or maybe he'll show some things that other clubs will take note of. Who knows, but I'm satisfied that he's done enough here to help the team.
I do rate Zelalem, just not at this level currently. As for Hyndman, I rate him as well, I just don't rate him high enough to be in a tournament with our best U-23 players who are mostly 2 and 3 years older than him. His play in this tournament has been underwhelming outside of a 30 minute stretch against Cuba and he's not playing regular first team minutes with his club team. As I said in my last post, to play up multiple years, you should have to equal the older players in play (with club or country) like Miazga, Carter-Vickers, Steffen, Horvath have done, not have some skill and be hyped up. As for the other two, its not a particularly high level of competition. I'm not ready to make any grand proclamations about Ariyibi or Tall. I didn't think either should've been picked, and I'll stick by that for now. If you can't play well at this tournament, thats not a good sign. Fair play to Ariyibi for playing well and doing what we should expect of a player on this roster.
Hyndman and Gil are ahead? Yes, Hyndman, glued to the bench at middle tier Championship side Fulham, and Gil who plays for RSL are both ahead of a guy who's on the books at Arsenal, recieves continuous acclaim from his coach and club supporters, and is starting week in week out piling up assists for Rangers FC, who would probably destroy Fulham and RSL. But do tell how Zelalem is 'behind' guys like Hyndman and Gil
That's easy. Both Emo and Gil have played better in the group stage. And this coming from a major Gideon fan.
You really just said nothing, just an 'because I said so' type of rebuttal. But I'll bite.... Those two guys 'appear' to play better because they're holding midfielders. I.e., no pressure to attack the defense and make aggressive plays. Gedion has alot on his shoulders being an attacking mid because his game is predicated on the awareness of his men around him. A defensive mid just needs to be able to stop/hold up an attack, and have the vision to release to an available player. Give Gedion's duties to Emo or Gil and let's see how they do. Basically, there's no comparison to be made between these guys because they virtually play different positions.
I mean for our U-23 setup as currently constituted. We are still playing press and counter soccer in the U-23s. Speed and physicality are the game. I think as we phase into a more positional and finesse based game as the U-X talent who can play that way consistently come of age he will become more and more valuable. I am not talking about club play.
You make a good point. I can understand the angle of individual value relative to the landscape of the team. And let's face it, from the top down in US soccer, the landscape is still the 'scratch and claw' for results philosophy, which probably suits more defensive minded, blue collar style players. It's likely why we are seeing guys like Morris, Arriybi, and Kiese doing so well for us right now. Gedion's game would probably look smooth as butter in a Germany kit, but for 'Merica it seems like a parallel universe. I was just confused by the black and white assessment that Zelalem was outright inferior to some of our other midfielders, when every bit of evidence outside of this handful of games suggests otherwise.
One might note that Ramos (and other USYNT staff members) have talked about the different types of games their squads encounter at CONCACAF competitions versus games against the rest of the world. CONCACAF games often require more of the physical attributes in the squad. [Often the fields and conditions aren't conducive to more technical players, although that's not the case this time. Its certainly been in recent U17 and U20 CONCACAF tournaments.] Games against Panama are street fights. Our last U20 team of players trying to play a more technical game were battered physically by Panama. And Jamaica for that matter, although that was more of an athleticism contest. This isn't a one-size-fits-all arena. Its possible Herzog and staff have gotten the tactics just right this time even though it may be more defense minded. Once you get to a competition like this, its results that matter the most. As far as Gedion goes...............he's significantly younger than players like Gil. While Luis may not have as high of a ceiling as Zelalem, he's a more mature player (physically and perhaps mentally) than Gedion. There's no question Gedion has to mature physically before he's going to be ready for full USMNT appearances in important games. [Don't get me wrong. If we want to call him up for a friendly or two........why not?] I think there are folks that expect youngsters from the academies of "big clubs" to walk right into USYNT lineups and dominate. It does sometimes happen. CCV seemed to walk into our pool and be a first choice CB at every group from U18 to U23 in a matter of months. [I think CCV is so young that he's actually eligible for THE NEXT Olympic cycle. Is that right?] For other players it takes a little more time for them to feel thru the process, thru the international game, being part of a new team environment, etc. I'm sure there are a number of guys in this squad that Gedion has never played with before. We can all give examples of youngsters that we didn't think much of for their first 5-10 youth appearances, and then really advanced rapidly after that. We've all heard USYNT coaches talk about certain youngsters that struggled in early camps and thus were even out of the pool for a little while (Yedlin, Roldan, etc. are recent ones). Zelalem will figure this level out and be a more impactful player. I have faith in his talent level.
CCV is so young that he missed qualifying for the U17 WC by 1 day and would qualify for the next U20 WC (and obviously the next Olympics). I have to admit that I thought Zelalem would've been able to 'play up' similarly; however, he's not a starter on this team or one of the first 2-3 guys off the bench unless it's a very specific scenario. I do still think having him on the roster has its merits and that he deserves to at least be one of the last few on the bench (especially given the other...uninspiring options at CM that weren't brought in). It does appear that CCV is a rare exception in terms of "elite" (in US terms) prospects being able to play several years above their age group and still shine.
I think this is well said and needs to be repeated often. There may need to be vastly different teams in qualifying and tournaments and players who are good at one but not the other while some can do both. Don't forget to add that CONCACAF refs call the game differently as well. During WC qualifying it's even more pronounced since all away games have big crowds that are ferocious for their home team.
I still feel that watching players play games is the best way to judge their current level, and that what they do on the field is the biggest component for evaluating their potential. But maybe that's just me.
Gedion's technique in both dribbling and passing is head and shoulders above the rest. He needs teammates who move for the ball and rotate positions (which in soccer means taking risk, a current no-no for all USYNT teams that coach reducing risk). He is not going to win individual battles with his teammates camping out on the other side of the field because the strength is not there yet. Gedion's brilliance at Arsenal and Rangers comes from holding onto the ball a second longer than expected. With USA that turns into 5 seconds because we don't coach calculated risk-taking in our movement off the ball. That doesn't negate the fact that Gedion can execute "la pausa" and the others cannot. He can also one touch and others besides Hyndman cannot. Zelalem should be on the field getting better. Oh, and once this team has a passing chemistry he will look like the best player on the field.
As some others have pointed out, Zelalem just doesn't quite fit with the way we have been playing. Polster and Trapp love playing long balls into runners, Alashe struggles to put two touches together, while Hyndman and Gil occupy the same space as Zelalem, but are a bit more direct. Our forwards/wingers have generally looked to make straight line runs through the defense, rather than check back to the ball and maintain possession. Zelalem hasn't been put in a position to succeed in this tournament, so I don't really blame him all that much for his struggles. Hopefully he learns how to play with teams that don't have >60% possession in the next couple of years. His passing could be a great asset in a fast paced attack, he just needs to be as confident on the ball in the middle third as he is in the final third.
I agree that this team, and our style of play aren't tailor-made for Zelalem's strengths. That said if a player is truly a difference maker they will still make more of an impact in the situations he faced on the field. I mean out-of-form Luis Gil has 3-4 assists (one a first time, backheel, nutmeg). The Canada game was the most suboptimal for his style but he should have no excuses for the Panama game, which was an open affair against an opponent needing a 3-0 result. Not that he was bad just not a gamechanger. Morris looks like one of the best off the ball runners we've had at this level, If GZ can't make the type of passes DM Wil Trapp can then is he that good? I think he is, he can, he has, and he will. He's just not fully developed or locked in. I watch players to see what options they take, what they pass up, and what they miss. So when I see Zelalem drive into traffic instead of circulating or miss little chipped throughballs those count as much, if not more, than a turn away from pressure, or a shot.
I agree that I would have liked to see more. I'm also optimistic that he will learn to put his stamp on the game regardless of the team's style eventually. Just because he can't do it now, as an 18 year-old, doesn't mean that he is a lost cause. It merely means he has something to work on. We will have to wait and see if he learns to adapt.