FSU Players Abroad [R]

Re: Pavluchenko @ Spurs tread

Sure, he's got better foot speed and better springs, I'll give you that. But a target forward, which Pavluchenko pretends not to be but truly is (he's not in any way skilled enough to beat any decent defender off of the dribble) needs to have a tough physical presence in the EPL and needs to work for every goal. I'll be very interested to see if Pavluchenko can make the transition - personally, knowing his game, I think he's going to be a very disappointing and expensive acquisition for Spurs.

Pogrebnyak knows his role and plays it well - he's a big, burly target forward who has the job of mucking it up in the the middle and fighting for every 50/50, as well as making the most out of effective service. PP doesn't try to be something he's not, he plays within his game and does it well - the comparisons to PP and Brian McBride are too numerous to mention, they play the exact same game. McBride made a nice little mini-career for himself in the EPL, doing the same things and playing the same game that PP does, albeit late in his career - and if you don't think that a physical target forward that plays within his role is not a decent player to have, please poll any Fulham, Everton or Crystal Palace fan that you happen to run across.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. You said PP would never see another league outside of Russia - I dearly hope you are right. Because if you don't think that there are at least 10 teams in 1.BL that wouldn't love to add him to their roster, you are living in a different reality than I am. He went toe to toe with the best defenders that Bayer Leverkusen and Bayern Munich put on the pitch, and he took them all to school. Pavluchenko has not achieved anything similar nor proved himself on that level yet; I'll go the opposite route that you did and suggest that if PP would have been in there and had the opportunity in 1T that Pavluchenko fluffed, the best scoring opportunity that either team had in the E2K8 semis - PP would have finished that one, and the game would have taken on an entirely different complexion.

 

Re: Pavluchenko @ Spurs tread

Yes, that he did. Again, he knew his role and skills, and played within said role. Pogrebnyak might not yet exhibit the aerial skills that McBride did/does, but he's still so young, and I think he does a little bit better in the air than you give him credit for. McBride was decent with the ball at his feet, but he earned his lunch money grinding it out with the best centerbacks in the world, playing with (let's be honest, Fulham) inferior players. I've watched McBride since the days that he played at the U of Wisconsin-Milwaukee (with Tony "Big Cat" Sanneh as his teammate back then, as in Japorea 2002, and Sanneh's long right flank run, immaculate cross & McBride selling the dummy move to the 2 Portuguese defenders - one of my favorite goals of all time

[youtube]21CuiSWJ4iY[/youtube]

I'm gonna lay in the weeds and wait until Dimon tells me what a POS McBride was..., no, forget that crap, I'm gonna steal a march on ol' Dimon, I think. I looked up the stats for McHead and a couple of well-known and accomplished Ukrainian stars...I really wanted to add a Russian player to my rather basic statistical analysis, but, damn it anyway, none to be found in the best league in the world, the EPL. So anyway, in the most basic of terms, here it is:

McBride Everton, Fulham

149 EPL appearances; 37 goals, 0.25 goals per appearance.

Shevchenko Chelsea

47 EPL appearances; 9 goals, 0.19 goals per appearance.

Rebrov Tottenham

60 EPL appearances; 10 goals, 0.17 goals per appearance.

Ukies, don't get your undies in a bundle, I'll be going on as to why this simple analysis does and does not work.

Why it doesn't work:

1. Shevchenko and (especially) Rebrov were not only horribly misused by their respective teams/coaches - they were also expected to be the cure -all that would make things right, by both Mourinho and Hoddle. Unrealistic expectations - the best players in the world cannot overcome that.

2. Neither Chelsea nor Spurs were set up to make use of either Shevchenko's or Rebrov's skill sets, at the times that both were acquired. Neither player fit well into their tactical game plans at the time. Spurs at least tried; Chelski just wished to make a media splash, and in the process stole 2 good years out of one of the best soccer players we will ever see in our collective lifetimes.

3. Both Shevchenko and Rebrov had an extremely short leash - Rebrov was one & done, Shevchenko was basically ignored for his 2nd season. I can understand maybe why Rebrov didn't work out at Spurs, but how Shevchenko was treated at Chelski after demonstrating complete dominance in one of the top three domestic leagues in the world - that one is beyond me, I'll be honest

Why it does work:

1. McHead came in with low expectations and a defined role. He adapted to the English game perfectly, which explains his higher start to appearances ratio as his EPL career went on. Sheva and Rebrov adapted, well, poorly, most of which was not their fault.

2. McHead never tried to do anything that was beyond his talents; Shevchenko and Rebrov were both tasked with the impossible job of turning around a major club's fortunes; they both were asked to play a game that was not theirs. in retrospect, they both would have been better served to go to La Liga, whereas McBride's game was tailor made for the EPL.

3. McBride having to work with service from Fulham midfielders vs. Shevchenko getting service from the best midfielders that money can buy = no comparison there. In the one year that Rebrov had at Spurs, he didn't exactly have a shabby bunch in the MF, either. Shevchenko couldn't connect with the finest and most expensive midfield that has ever been been assembled in both EPL and European history.

Both Shevchenko and McBride came into the EPL at a point that both were either at the end of their prime or beginning the downside; the same cannot be said of Rebrov, he came in to Spurs at the prime of his career.

Statistics aside, do I believe:

a. Shevchenko is one of the top 5 players of the last 20 years? Yes
b. Does McBride's better performance, on average, as far as goals per game & factoring in that he played with vastly inferior teams make him as good as Shevchenko? Obviously not, not even close, see above. Shevchenko played his prime with one of the best teams in the world; McBride played his best years with the Columbus Crew - anyone can do the math there.
c. Do the Ukies on this board overrate Rebrov? Yes. Even factoring in Hoddle's mind f@@k, Rebrov had a short but sweet run; his body of work is inferior to both, and Rebrov came into the EPL in the prime of his playing days/age.
d. That Pavluchenko will do well in the EPL? Honestly, no, but that remains to be seen. I agree with Nicephoras that he looks like the second coming of Rebrov, tossed into a dysfunctional team that had him as their 7th or 8th choice as the guy to play with Bent - but, I wish him the best and hope he proves me wrong.

 

Re: Pavluchenko @ Spurs thread

Whoops, you're right, I was relying on soccernet, which is usually reliable. 60 league appearances, 10 league goals, 0.17 goals per appearance. I will correct the aforementioned post. Thanks for pointing out the error - we didn't get a lot of EPL on FSC back then.

 

Re: Pavluchenko @ Spurs tread

I don't often agree with Dimon, but here he has a point. I'd be hard pressed to name 5 #10s that are better at that role than Shava is. Just because he hasn't moved to a bigger league does not invalidate the top shelf skills he has clearly shown against top flight competition. Just ask the Oranje supporters, the Bayern Munich, Bayer Leverkusen, Villarreal fans, etc.

 

Re: Pavluchenko @ Spurs thread

Exactly. The mob at WHL will eat this guy alive if he doesn't correct his strike rate, in very short order.

 

Re: Pavluchenko @ Spurs thread

lol, brightest? EPL is one of the most difficult leagues to score in. You're way off.