French football: a racial quotas scandal ?

I am in complete support of Blanc at this point. I believe that they had every right to do something regarding the problem with dual-nationality players. Thuram said it shouldn't matter who enters the system of training because the best French players will rise to the top anyway. I disagree. Training these players and then having several of them move on to other federations only uses up a space and resources that could have otherwise been fully utilized by a young French kid who aspires to play for France, and could very well get just the training he needs to improve to that level. ANY federation would be in the right by limiting that risk. Hypothetically speaking, if the players in question had dual nationalities from Norway, Sweden or England I would feel the exact same way and I'm sure Mr. Blanc would too.

Soon the US Federation will have the same problem. Many immigrant families from (mainly) Mexico have children who blow away most of the American kids. The problem is that many of these Mexican-American youngsters dream of playing for Mexico, not the USA. Should the federation start training them now? Spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on programs but with half of the good ones choosing Mexico? When do we draw the line on being politically correct? And at what point have we become hostage to it, tying our own hands behind our backs? Afraid to change the system out of fear of being branded as racist? The way some people talk, it's almost as if they wouldn't be happy unless there weren't any restrictions at all on a global level. I could easily imagine this being the next issue. Some Australian kid arguing that he should be able to play for France simply because he wants to with half of France arguing on his behalf. Its insane.

 

Dugarry on Thuram :

«On était en train de prendre des photos avec la Coupe du monde, entre nous. Et Lilian dit : "Allez les Blacks, on fait une photo tous ensemble". Moi, je n'ai pas relevé, je n'ai pas fait l'amalgame, je n'ai pas mal interprété ses propos. Franck Leboeuf, lui, a remarqué et a lancé : "Lilian, qu'est-ce que tu dis ? Et si, moi, je disais : allez les Blancs, on fait une photo tous ensemble ?". Mais à aucun moment on s'est dit que Lilian était raciste. Lilian ne doit pas oublier qu'il arrive à tout le monde de dire des choses qui dépassent sa pensée ou qui peuvent être mal interprétées.»

http://www.leparisien.fr/sports/equ...lecons-a-tout-le-monde-04-05-2011-1435278.php

 

I agree with Catel, you can't equate being black in France with being white. If he wanted to take a picture with the cup with the black players, it doesn't make him a racist. France is only colorblind on paper. And CoDave, I really think that dual-nationally thing is a ridiculous cop out. Can you name a single player of superstar quality that chose another country over France?? Algeria is practically France B, and no one on that side would make les bleus. Guys born in France who play for others, almost always do because they don't think they can make an impact with the French side. It's a plan B, a consolation prize. There is no superstar french kid coming up the youth ranks that would suit up for any other nation, full stop. I'm eligible to play for Haiti through my mother, do you think I would have picked them if I was tearing up the U16s?, ROFL


And on a sadder note. I think Blanc might get the sack. This is devastating, I don't believe for one second Laurent Blanc is a racist. But the old heads might let him go. If Alou says hes cool, that's all I need to hear.

 

I believe that he has a problem with Thuram being a supreme court judge.

Of course, when it's Thuram who says something like that it's because he's always thinking about racism... What you are telling me is that he was so much thinking about racism that he had to split black and white people apart. It's like those association for black people who complain about racism. That's just communautarism. To me, communautarism is the opposite of anti racism since ideally people should get along no matter what their color skin is. And if in Thuram mind he didn't make the difference between white and black, he would not even consider making this kind of remark. For someone like Thuram who always lecture other people not about racism but rather about racism toward black people, it's funny.

Anyway, I've seen Jacques Faty on 100% foot. This kind of mentality disturbs me. Their definition of representing a nation is equal to their club career. It's like a player who fails at Marseille and is sold to a lesser club. To them it's the same thing. What I've heard is insane. He said that he discovered a new population. I'm calling that a tourist. If he wanted to discover a new population, he just would have had to travel. It's abnormal to see players who do not even know a country playing for this nation. It's unfair for local players and people from there to be represented by someone like that.

 

But you're missing the entire point...and I'm afraid half of France is too. The point is: Any players chosen to be trained by the FFF are taking a spot that is highly sought after. If a player choses to play for another country they have taken away the chance for a French kid to pursue his dream and perhaps even become good enough for Les Bleus. Are the greats known to be great when they're 13? No. Can training at Clairefontaine greatly improve a young players development and possibly be a turning point for them? Of course!!! No question about it. So why should the FFF be responsible for training Algeria's future players anyway??? And like I've said before, if the players in question were white and chosing to play for their mothers country of say Switzerland, it would be the same problem. It just so happens these players in question are mostly non-white and people have become defensive and emotional about it, reading into something they want to believe is racism.

 

Nothing reported so far suggests that the quota was to be applied specifically to players of dual nationality.

What has been reported is that plans were being discussed to apply the quota to Black and Arab players. Now, "Arab" can be interpreted as being of North African or Middle Eastern (perhaps also non-Jewish? I'm asking) descent as well as being a (poor)description of someone's physical appearance, so we've got some leeway there with how we judge Blanc. OTOH, "Black" is a racial/appearance description, period. It has nothing to do with citizenship or level of patriotism. Blanc failed to disagree with plans that would limit (in addition to Black players of recent African descent) Black kids whose families have been French and living in France for generations and aren't interested in playing for Cameroon, Algeria or anyone else but France.

Step back, take a deep breath and think for a moment. If any of this had been about dual nationality, Blanc or someone else in the room would have simply worded it that way- and done so publicly. You don't need to arrange a secret meeting to decide how best to preserve training resources for players who are committed to one nation. That's a completely understandable goal.

I'm very curious about how you'd separate those Latinos whose interest is 100% USA from those who might choose either Mexico or the USA.

Well, that's already been done, actually.

Back during a 2002 WCQ against Honduras, Americans with Spanish-language surnames who ordered tickets by phone were denied a chance to sit with other Americans in RFK Stadium, and were offered tickets in the Honduran section instead. It's quite an effective way of reminding some of your own countrymen that they really... aren't, which doesn't help you if they take you at your word and choose to play against you for a nation where their value isn't determined by how culturally Anglo they are.

 

Nobody is questioning the presence of players with dual nationality playing for the national team A. The debate is about the formation made in FFF where players with dual nationality can play for France at youth level and later play for another nation.
The Federation is worried about missing good players since they are getting call up really early in their career from the country of their second nationality. They don't necessary want to invest to reinforce other nations. Probably also want a vast choice for the national team coach...
Personally, I find the players like Faty strictly opportunists. They're not good enough for France thus they choose to play for another nation to play a world cup. A country that according to his sayings, he wasn't knowing well. The feeling of representating a nation is not limited to play a WC and it won't make me feel that this kind of behavior is respectable just because others are doing it too.

Quota might not be the right solution but there is a real debate about these players. It's a pity to see crappy media being caricatural, mixing things up, trying to maintain the hype by unleashing infos slowly. All that to discredit a coach not from the DTN and for the rival of Duchaussoy to be elected...

 

Well, Blanc has a lot of key figures supporting him.

In support of Blanc are: ZIDANE, Desailly, Deschamps, Wenger, Aime Jacquet, Dugarry, Lizarazu, Alou Diarra, and the French Minister of Sport.

Not in support: Vieira, Thuram. wow.

As Zidane said, Blanc would be crazy to step down over this.

 

Blanc has been cleared of discrimination charges by the sports ministry.

 

No Auriaprottu, you're fully wrong.

The private FFF meeting was ONLY about youth French team players being trained in the French national team academy and eventually ending in foreign national teams.

All the race debate is the own interpretation of Mediapart, which obviously don't understand a single thing about how works international football.


All the attacks about Laurent Blanc being racist are based on something totally ABSURD. The guys were wondering why there were so many binationals in Clairefontaine (thus people who risk to switch national teams), and Laurent Blanc said, that the selection of youngsters was largely based on athletic criterias, which was favoring black players.

It was a damn' private meeting. He didn't make any official announce to the press or anything! He was just talking with his colleagues. What is so racist about it frankly? Anyone watching track & field would see that indeed many black players have athletic qualities. He didn't make of it a rule, he didn't theorized the concept, he just made a superficial comment like we all have done multiple times in our lives.

I'm pissed off about how unfair are the attacks against Laurent Blanc. And I'm even more pissed off about how destroying is this fake "affair" to French football. Mediapart destroys the credibility of the FFF freely and for no valid reason. This will have devastating effects on the French society for years... and even on our relationship with African countries where the story was huge.

Mediapart must be sewed for defamation. That's the only way to repair the damage they've done.

 

I don't at all agree with you that it's the only thing that was discussed. In fact, the whole controversy, if we are to call it that, stemmed from a taped discussion in which all parties involved have confirmed participation.

Blanc even made the link between dual nationality and race himself when he spoke of the alleged athleticism of the Black players keeping more potentially great but late-maturing White players out of a spot, and when he said that Spain didn't have that problem because they didn't have as large a Black population. In short, he knew exactly who this quota would affect when he spoke- Black and Arab players.

People are either cool with that or they're not.

That's different from what I'd originally been hearing (and what I posted earlier), but the result is essentially the same. I'm not dodging your response, but I just don't see enough difference in the outcome for it to really matter.

There's no way Mediapart could have fabricated a taped discussion of a quota. All they did, really, was run the tape.

So he decides to scrap a system that favors the sort of player --let's set color aside-- who's helped Les Bleus to World Cup championship, a runner-up finish and a continental championship in ten years and replace it with one that allows them to play pretty like Platini & co. did?

He doesn't care what color the players are, so long as there aren't too many of them from the exact group that is pretty much guaranteed to include players of color almost exclusively. I'll absolutely concede that.

I probably ought not bother bringing up the idea of the FFF cultivating thought and skill among those players who are big, strong, fast or some combo of the three (or, you know, doing their job and recognizing the small/slow/weak but potentially great players). It seems too much of a no-brainer.

If he believes that, he ought to make the most of it. He'll be judged on wins and losses, not on the chosen religion of his players. See below.

http://www.njanguipress.com/index.p...oins-de-noirs-et-darabes&catid=69:top-stories

One of the first measures taken by Laurent Blanc when he became coach for Les Bleus last summer was to ban halal meat from the players' meals. He told French television at the time that out of respect for Muslims, there would be no pork either. However, the French team's meals do not usually contain pork, a meat that is said to be too fatty for top-level sportsmen.

Several former FFF officials have told Mediapart of an incident in 1997 when DTN officials ordered searches of bags belonging to players of Maghrebi origin in the national youth team (16-17-year-olds), to check they were not carrying prayer mats.

Between this and the quota, I'm inclined to think Blanc might be a bit obsessive about achieving some sort of cultural homogeneity... just a bit, y'know? Especially when France has won so little (nothing?) with the stye of player Blanc seems to want to train.

The link is, I believe, from a Cameroon site, and I don't know anything about its political leanings. Feel free to discredit it if you think doing so strengthens your beliefs.

Do you think Mediapart is lying about the prayer rugs? We already know they aren't lying about the discussion.

It appears so. Even that might not work.

 

The more it goes, the more I believe the true racists are those calling Laurent Blanc racist. Indeed, they see racialism where there's not.

People who're really not racist consider that the colour of skin is the same as the colour of eyes or the colour of hair: just a physical trait. And if someone considers racist to make silly jokes on blond-haired girl, then that means he considers blond-haired people to be a race. And thus, he's the only one who's indeed racist.

The quotas which were discussed were about binationality, or more precisely players being trained by the équipe de France staff who could potentially switch later to another national team. Of course this idea has been discarded months ago by the FFF itself considering it was not only illegal, but also counter-productive. 5 months after that discussion, absolutely nothing came out of it in the FFF!

The FFF has absolutely no interest in racializing the French team. Their single purpose is to win trophies, that's just all. In such a context, losing players in which they've invested in Clairefontaine is indeed a cause for concern. Colours of players have just no valid reason to be one. That's why assuming the real motives where there is not only based out of nothing, but also irrational.

Afterwards, different discussions have been mixed and shown as the same discussion by people who don't understand what football is. Laurent Blanc is someone who knows far better football than you and me. He knows better than us that among the greatest technicians in History we can find Pelé, Tigana, Ronaldo or Zidane. Considering he said technicians were necessarily white people is just beyond stupidity.

Laurent Blanc has told multiple times he was a fan of Barça style of football. If we follow the logic of those accusing him of racism, then Barça is a racist club! Barça, the anti-Franquist team, the social team which is "more than a club", the one favoring UNESCO instead of a commercial sponsor, can only be considered racist or "white" by morons. I'm sure Abidal, Keita, Henry, Rijkaard and Eto'o will appreciate.

As Zidane told himself, Blanc is married with an Algerian woman. The halal stuff was just because he considered important for all players to share the same food. It's his vision about the life in a group, about the way to create social ties in a team. In this context, either non-muslim players eat halal meat, or muslim players don't eat halal meat. It's a matter of choice, and I'm not shocked at all the second option was favored (only Ben Laden would consider it a major sin to not eat halal from times to times). And I'm not shocked either that pork is avoided in meals of the players for the exact same reason (eating pork in Islam is clearly a major sin).

Seeing all this as racism is simply being obsessed about races: genuinely believing the human kind is clearly divided in separated groups. I'm not one of them. I do see that people have different physical traits, different religious and cultural background, but I don't make an obsession about it. On the opposite, I'm quite glad about it as it gives more taste to this world.

 

Interesting to see how even the most level headed French posters on this board have circled the wagons on this, kind of like the more respected French sports press.

I don't think Blanc is racist.

That said, the contents of the tape are damning evidence that somewhere along the line, a society that is constantly trumpetting its egalitarianism needs to take a long hard look at itself from its institutions down.

As Smerecki said. It's discriminatory...
By the time you get to the end of the meeting, it becomes downright offensive.

When some can maintain that you're essentially allowed to harbour prejudice in private once you don't say it out loud exposed to the brutal light of day, it puts everything into perspective.

not exactly on subject, but quite an interesting article:
http://www.lejdd.fr/Sport/Actualite...i-ont-choisi-la-France-309741/?from=headlines

 

The discussion was not serious in the meaning that 5 months later when the story went out, it had lead to nothing (and this even before the tape went out to Mediapart).

There's a big difference between throwing out ideas and taking decisions. Any company, institution or association has the right to organize brainstorming sessions about how solving its problems. Stupid ideas are often thrown out during brainstorming sessions : that's their very purpose. Brainstorming sessions are not decision making process. Their purpose is only to propose new ideas. 90% of new ideas are bad, but if you forbid yourself to even formulate them, then you forbid yourself to find the 10% of new ideas which are actually good.

I don't believe it's a good evolution to judge an institution (no matter what it is) according to what has been said during their brainstorming sessions. A human institution should only be accountable to the decisions it has actually taken.

The problem raised has never been whether it was weakening the équipe de France, but rather if it was strengthening its opponents.

It would be clearly arrogant to say that Senegal or Algeria are so weak that even if they grab players trained by the équipe de France they wouldn't be a threat if we would face them at a World Cup. After all, past results prove how wrong is this idea.

The world is more and more open and globalized. That's a fact. There are 6 million immigrants in France, but there are also 3 million French people who emigrated in the rest of the world. This isn't only true for France, but everywhere. The number of binationals raise everywhere. It's not a matter of history, just about the world being more open than ever (and it's a good thing).

I think it's a fair debate to wonder if the current FIFA rules to determine players eligibility in national teams are still valid or not. The CBF in Brazil is very concerned about the number of Brazilian nationals who end playing in Asia for reasons which are purely opportunistic. Of course Qatar doesn't risk to beat Brazil anytime soon, but it's not a reason to have 5 Brazilians in the Qatari national team.

Personally, I think FIFA shouldn't allow players who joined a national youth team to play in another national team once adult. Remember how France ridiculously hunt Gonzalo Higuain, trying to steal it from Argentina. These things are very real.

In interpreting the debate the way they did, Mediapart has proven they understood nothing about the sporting issue which was behind.

 

I hope you're not implying that the public will latch onto an idea simply because some of the media suggest it. People are capable of reaching conclusions on their own without prodding. Mediapart simply provided a tape.

The idea in question wasn't just stupid; it had racial implications because France's "immigrant" population consists largely of people of color, and because Blanc himself made statements linking race with dual citizenship. How many generations, in your opinion, must a family be citizens of a nation before they are no longer considered immigrants?

This is not a good analogy. Those were adult players who did not have citizenship in the nations they were asked to play for. Your country's youth program has nothing but French kids, some of whom can claim citizenship elsewhere as well.

I agree. And that's what the FFF ought to have been discussing, not just among themselves, but along with any other FA that thinks it's training the future players on other NTs. A concerted and public effort from several influential UEFA countries would not have created the impression that this secret meeting has done.

 

I'd be all for that ban, but I think theres a reason it's like that in first place. If it had to come down to a vote from Fifa, the smaller nations would never pass the ban. They just LOVE having France, England, Germany etc train their players for them....

 

Mediapart did only provide the tape, they also gave their own interpretation of the tape with their shocking healine and posted the verbatim later on. The title will remain in our memories as it's representative of it true or not.

I think that people are capable of reaching to their own conclusions on this "scandal". However, I believe the problem is the mediatic treatment of this affair. There were two debates about players with dual nationality and the players profiles. They mixed it up like it's one single thing. These debates are not really surprising for someone interested in football but if you are not into it, it must be hard to understand where it's coming from. It's the media job to give everyone the key to understand the situation so they can make their own opinion instead of jumping on the train of sensationalism.

Plus, the media only gave one kind of opinion on this affair by interviewing Diouf, Thuram, Noah...and always repeated what they said while someone like Malek Boutih who had a much more reasonable opinion on this affair did not have the right of the same treatment. By looking at only one side of the border, the media are exploiting the information and their possible influence to create a feeling of indignation which is in their own interest in order to get attention.

Their duty is the treat the information completely and accurately and I don't feel like it's been the case in this affair.

 

Indeed.

I was in Senegal last month. I've spent a great time among a family from Ouakam. It's a popular neighbourhood of Dakar which is known for his club (The US Ouakam) which won several times the Senegalese championship.

Well guess what? The team plays on the sand. And all Senegal Ligue 1 clubs play on the sand. FIFA grabs billions of dollars, but it's not even able to subsidize a dozen of artificial turf for the whole country of Senegal. We can wonder where all the money is going...

You can't imagine how football is popular in Senegal. Despite the outrageous difference in the cost of living, Senegalese people pay nearly twice the French fees to be able to watch Canal+ Horizons and see the French championship. I even felt ashamed to see kids who could barely read being able to list all players of the Stade Malherbe de Caen.

But the truth is that all those Senegalese kids may be deeply passionated about the sport, they will never have access to any professional training center at home. Of course, they can devellop talents by themselves, but it's only in Europe that they'll have access to an academic training in football.

When knowing this, we can understand African FA's are tempted to browse among the French youngsters to find a leftwinger who would complete their national team.

We can understand it... but the world would probably be better if Senegal had access to the most elementary facilities to shape at home their talents. There's no rational reasons to consider this can't be achieved. And it wouldn't be se bad if the money FIFA gives to the Senegalese FA would be used to invest in artificial turf. It would please so many people, we just can't imagine.

 

It's not me you should convince about this, it's the Algerian FA!

During last world cup, 19 of the 23 Algerian players were born and raised in France. But the fact is that, while they are fully French (and you're right to point out that this isn't enough respected in France), they also inherited the Algerian citizenship from their parents. As such, it's perfectly fair for them to play for the country of their parents if they want!

The problem isn't there. It only becomes a problem when the few kids who had the chance to be chosen for Clairefontaine's équipe de France training center ends up in other national teams than the équipe de France.

Oh, and by the way, you're wrong in stating that the vast majority of French immigrant population consists of people of colour. Statistically speaking, the foreign roots the most widespread among French people are European: Italian, Polish, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Belgian, Irish, Russian...

 

Sorry but I also have to correct this point. The meeting was not "secret", it was simply private. That makes a big difference.

If a politician is caught debating with his advisers about the opportunity to legalize whorehouses during a private meeting, that doesn't mean he supports such a legalization. Especially if after the meeting he ended thinking it's a bad thing.

People or Institutions should only be accountable to the decisions they make. The FFF has never taken the decision they are accused of. That's kind of relevant somewhere, isn't it?