Flash 2015-2016 Off Season

Discussion in 'Western New York Flash' started by CoachJon, Oct 20, 2015.

  1. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nope. The way it works now is NWSL coaches recommend the players from their team that they feel Ellis should look at and she decides who gets the call in to camps. Since NWSL is the developmental league for the NT, Id just take that a step further, Throw Ellis, Heinrichs and the 10 NWSL coaches in a room and let them hash out which new players deserve a look for the new year. Ellis still controls which players get continued call ups and who actually makes the roster.
     
  2. Blaze20

    Blaze20 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Seattle Reign FC
    Sep 22, 2009
    Club:
    Philadelphia Independence
    Do you want that as a reality show on VH1 or something? Or like a shark tank style show?
     
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  3. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know about the coaches hashing it out together, but the gist of this seems reasonable. Let each coach designate a player or two or three for a first time look. Then, once they get the look, Ellis decides whether to have the player back. It heightens the importance of the league and it's relatively pain free.
     
  4. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    And even tho Ellis would still choose who she wanted, this would have a positive effect on the league. A lot of players r still slugging it out for low pay because they believe they r close. Having this out there as a tangible avenue to the NT camp might be the difference between some of them staying after it or giving up and getting a real job.
     
  5. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    i'm not sure this is pain free at all. most nt head coaches anywhere would likely find it obnoxious.

    nwsl coaches already, i'm sure, recommend players. the only ones around the table hashing out if they should be brought in are the nt coaching staff.
     
  6. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    as much as i hate losing good players from the game....

    ...pro sports is a brutal fight for survival.

    keeping more players in the game longer in the current financial condition of woso may just be cruelly stringing them along.
     
  7. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    The conversation that Coach John reported was at a meeting of the NWSL coaches with members of the NT staff including Ellis and Dawn Scott. Id love to hear what the NWSL coaches think of NT camp selection and whether they feel it is fair to league players.
     
  8. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. WNYChelseaFan

    WNYChelseaFan Member

    Apr 5, 2014
    NY
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
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  10. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    But no new turf? :thumbsdown:

    Think there's any chance the "Western New York Flash" might rename themselves to the "Rochester Flash"?
     
  11. WNYChelseaFan

    WNYChelseaFan Member

    Apr 5, 2014
    NY
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    As far as I know the city owns the Stadium, Sahlen's just has the naming rights. I think they will keep the name, Western New York Flash, as they are trying to push their Academy program with the same name. Also, if they change it Rochester, I think they might lose some of the fan base from Buffalo.
     
  12. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    Yeah, but if they can upgrade the "in-house technical system", they should've thrown in some money for new turf as well. Now that Chicago has left Benedictine, Sahlen's has the worst turf in the league, no contest. (It was already the oldest).
     
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  13. Blaze20

    Blaze20 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Seattle Reign FC
    Sep 22, 2009
    Club:
    Philadelphia Independence
    CoachJon repped this.
  14. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    WNYchelseafan is right. No way it will be the Rochester Flash.. And he is right about the City owning the stadium. I will also say IMO the City doesn't care two cents about the condition of the field , scoreboard, or any other part of the facility. and now that there is no hope of ever getting the USWNT to play here again, things will get worse.
     
  15. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    And that is why I was suggesting that Flash pay for new turf... None of you seem to be grasping that (I already knew that the Sahlens don't own it, so that's really not contributing to the discussion. I was saying if the Flash are paying to upgrade aspects of the stadium as the article states, why not pay to have new turf installed too?).
     
  16. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #41 CoachJon, Dec 26, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2015
    Because upgrading the technical system for web casting (as the article said) may cost a few tens of thousand dollars and a new field surface would cost 400 -500 thousand dollars, assuming the underlying base and drainage system doesn't also need upgrading. I don't know the Flash bottom line, but I believe they must be losing money; perhaps as much a $1/4 to $1/2 million a year. Sinking another half million into someone else's facility would be foolish.

    Doing the field upgrade in lieu of rent (for a number of years) and in lieu of payments for naming rights plus getting some bucks from the Rochester Rhinos could make it do-able for the Flash. But the City is only interested in the cash revenue from rent and naming rights, because it can be spent anywhere they want. As I suggested above, the City only sees the stadium as a liability, not an asset they should invest in.
    .
    The work would have to be bid out by the City, which would add a lot of extra cost due to the requirement to pay prevailing wages ( Union rates). And the City would find ways to screw up the project, also increasing costs. Why would Sahlen agree to pay a half million for work that he couldn't directly contract for and oversee himself?
     
  17. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    Why would that be the case? Providence Park is owned by the city, but the Timbers are able to control the turf installation themselves (and that's even with the city chipping in to help pay for it).

    Well, that's the thing... they don't seem to have any other alternatives lined up (otherwise why would they be emphasizing Rochester now?). And a half million is cheaper than building their own place, at least.

    So it really seems like it's a case of how dedicated are they to continuing a team in Rochester? If they expect to have the team another 4-8 years, paying for new turf would be a huge benefit in terms of enticing players to your team. Which will benefit the quality of the team. Which will increase the number of fans. Which will bring in more revenue. But sure, if they are only doing this "focus" on Rochester for a year or two until they can find someone else to sell to, then sure, paying a half million for new turf doesn't make financial sense.
     
  18. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because it is state law: Municipal contracting is required for municipally owned facilities. New York State law is entrenched in satisfying the needs of political bosses and unions. New York is the least business-friendly of all the states, according to Forbes magazine.

    Because Rochester is where the team plays and where most of the ticket buyers are. and because the Flash have failed to court the Rochester market in the past. As far as I can tell the only fan base from Buffalo is the families of kids in the Flash Academy.

    That is my point. The dedication to having a professional Women's soccer team appears to be waning. I can see them giving up the NWSL team in a very few years and re-instituting the Buffalo Flash in the W-league or its replacement league.

    Agreed;. with one change: "would" to "could" in the first sentence
     
  19. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is a Sahlen's Stadium leasing and operations upheaval. 2015 USL Champion Rochester Rhinos owner has left the team and the league has taken over the team. The Rhinos owners were operating the Stadium. The City terminated the Rhino's lease effective 12/31/15 and is suing them for back rent. Separately, I think the Flash lease is up for renewal now, as well.

    http://www.democratandchronicle.com...-rhinos-owner-usl-looking-new-owner/78316180/
     
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  20. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Wow, that's a lot to deal with, on top of the roster and coaching upheaval for the Flash as well.

    If things go further south with the Rhinos, I wonder what the Flash being primary tenants would look like, or maybe even moving back to Buffalo if the stadium issue gets really bad.
     
  21. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is a bit of a mess - Devo's follow-up blog from today:

    http://www.democratandchronicle.com...ship-could-exactly-jolt-rhinos-need/78359178/

    I fear that if a new owner, who is willing to spend money both on the Rhinos and on the stadium, is not found, the City will indeed unbolt the stands and sell the stadium for scrap.​

    One possible lifeline (or at least temporary flotation device) exists in the form of the new County Executive, Cheryl Dinolfo. Her family is DEEP into soccer at all levels, so she may find a way to get the County to help out in this situation.​

    My gut says that Joe Sahlen will not choose to be the franchise/stadium saver.​

    ..........

    BTW: The Rhinos, founded in 1996, have been very successful on the field:
    • League champions four times (1998, 2000, 2001, 2016).
    • Playoffs every season until 2013.
    • The only minor-league team to win the U. S. Open Cup championship since the inception of Major League Soccer by defeating four MLS teams in the tournament (1999)
    • Hold an overall record of 10–15 versus MLS teams in the U.S Open Cup.
    • Drew 9,991 fans per game in 1996. They averaged more than 10,000 fans per game in each of the next eight seasons, and didn’t drop below 8,000 until 2008.
     
  22. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. Blaze20

    Blaze20 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Seattle Reign FC
    Sep 22, 2009
    Club:
    Philadelphia Independence
  24. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was Engen for Erceg, Leon and a first round draft pick. I don't see Erceg as an average player. WNY losing an allocated player, then, makes Engen's salary cap impact the only downside of the trade I can see; which doesn't make it a terrible trade, then or now. WNY now has 17 players rostered (per their website), 7 of whom are internationals, so I don't see any burning need to get more internationals, . I'm sure they were well aware of the international slot situation when they made the trade, so that point is moot, as evidenced by the fact that the Jeon Ga Eul signing was after the Engen trade.
     
  25. LucyFearsTheMorningStar

    Sep 27, 2015
    Club:
    Atlanta Beat
    I don't think who gets called into the Canada camp as a definite impact on the allocations. I don't see Kyle losing her allocation either yet she's not on the list. Meanwhile there's speculation Tancredi was going to lose her allocation and yet she is on the camp roster. Otherwise I feel like teams would need to be given leniency if a player they make a move for suddenly loses an allocation spot.
    The bigger item is that Engen is likely on the outside looking in at an Olympic spot. So outside of being a possible alternate, she may very well not miss any of the NWSL season.

    Besides the fact that I don't think Canadians or Mexican players should take international spots allocated or not. it makes any talk of a team in Canada null if they can't find local talent for fear of them taking an international spot.
     

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