Fitness vs. skills in practices

Discussion in 'Coach' started by saabrian, Aug 8, 2002.

  1. saabrian

    saabrian Member

    Mar 25, 2002
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This will be my first year of being a head coach (11-14 year olds). Last year, I was assistant to a friend of mine (same age group). His philosophy was that you should do nearly all drills with the ball at your feet.

    While there are a few exceptions due to the nature of the drill, especially agility drills such as running backwards or sideways, he thought that running without the ball was mostly a waste of practice time. His philosophy was that you could get the aerobic fitness of running AND give them tons more ball touches at the same time. Kids that age, especially in this country where many of them don't play in year round, need as many ball touches as they can. I've really come to agree strongly with his philosophy.

    Plus, there's a pragmatic reason. I only have the kids for an hour and a half or an hour and 3/4 a day and the middle school has a somewhat shorter preseason than varsity. I have to cram in a lot of teaching in a short period of time, especially since for many of them, this is their first real taste of competitive soccer. If they're running without the ball, they're not learning, they're not even getting a feel for having the ball at their feet. I'm a firm believer that, after actually enjoying the game, having a feel for the game is the first and most important category in becoming a good player. Coaches can teach skill, but a feel for the game is something the kids have to develop on their own. Ball touches is a way to help that.

    Although I coach younger kids, I think it applies even to older kids too, such as those at varsity level. By that age, players should be doing fitness stuff (running, lifting, etc) on their own time so that soccer practice can be devoted to soccer skills., strategy and so on.

    I don't deny the need for a little fitness training in practices, especially in the first week of pre-season, but I don't think it should be emphasized in practice independently of other soccer skills. What are you guys take on this?
     
  2. saabrian

    saabrian Member

    Mar 25, 2002
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I also wanted to add that just running is also quite boring. At least if they're running with the ball, they can concentrate on keeping the ball close to them, moving side to side with it and stuff like that.
     
  3. blech

    blech Member+

    Jun 24, 2002
    California
    my philosophy is very consistent with what you're talking about, if i feel like practices are active and productive. don't get me wrong - fitness is very important. but i generally think it can be accomplished in other ways during practice.

    if you pick your drills right and the kids work hard during drills, you can leave them just as winded at the end of practice without there being any "running" and you then have the real benefit of not wasting too much time separated from the ball.

    especially with younger kids (and i think your kids fit in this category), they love competitions, so a series of relay races with them dribbling the ball can be close to the equivalent of sprints. but almost all drills involve some movement and you simply need to push them to work hard while doing them.

    and, as the kids get older, i wouldn't hesitate to share your philosophy on this with them, and use it as motivation and encouragement for them to work hard during drills. if you find them slacking it in drills or scrimmage, you may have to threaten to resort to some running (and, of course, be prepared to back up this threat if necessary).

    all of this said, if you really are getting to work with your kids everyday of the week (even if only for 1.5 or 1.75 hours per day), i think that is a lot of time with kids at this age. you're not going to lose too much in terms of skill or tactics if you spend the last 5-10 minutes running sprints. i can also remember running sprints at the end of practice, and having my coach going back through the practice summarizing things that we had worked on while we ran. you won't have their full attention, but you won't be entirely wasting the time. i think in the end, it comes down to a judgment at the end of practice as to how much running they've done and if there needs to be some sprints.
     
  4. Elroy

    Elroy New Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    fitness

    There are some things that you just can't do with a ball at your feet. Plyometrics, weight training, dips, pull ups, etc. I agree that fitness training using the ball is good - especially in situations of limited time. But, as players grow older, elements of pure fitness become more important.

    I think that strength training is important at any age. It is not necessary to use time consuming weight programs - although I like these off season. If you have five pull up and five dip stations you can do considerable strength training for a large group in a very short time. Plyo's can be done as relays or in sets or circuits. If a coach is creative, a good strength program may take place right on the practice field.

    While I'm at it, you should train balance as well. this can be done with rope runs, ladders, pool noodles and other means. Equipment should be simple and plentiful, you don't want players standing around waiting for weights or equipment.

    You can have your cake and eat it, too.
     
  5. saabrian

    saabrian Member

    Mar 25, 2002
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: fitness

    Elroy, I agree that those things are important for the higher levels. But my point was that you can do those things outside of practice (during the season). That's why you have captains. :)
     
  6. Richie

    Richie Red Card

    May 6, 1999
    Brooklyn, NY, United
    saabrian you made a good post. Yes, I also think running with the ball is even better for fitness then running without the ball.

    Just remember one thing most of the time when playing 11 v 11 the players are running without the ball not with the ball.

    I think practice time just before and during the season needs to be done with the ball.

    However, practice time in the off season is another matter and should be used for fitness and strenght issues.

    My biggest problem as I said here at other times is fitness when dealing with adult players because of lack of substitution options.

    "I also wanted to add that just running is also quite boring."

    Running around a track and or soccer field 50 times is very boring. Take the running out on the streets, and talking among the players about things you see or about things in your life is not boring. It's interesting unless lack of fitness makes it more difficult. Talking about other things helps take the mind off of being tired. Just don't get hit by a car. That happened to a player I knew a while back while the team was running.

    Richie
     
  7. Elroy

    Elroy New Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Re: Re: fitness

    You're asking for trouble if you want to turn over something as potentially dangerous as fitness training to a bunch of inexperienced kids. The coach is there to manage and be in charge. If you or your assistants don't have the time then you shouldn't be doing it.
     
  8. Elroy

    Elroy New Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Shin splints

    I like all your posts except this one. Street running on hard surfaces over long distances can lead to stress fractures and shin splints. Football creates enough injuries on its own without the coach increasing the risk. Why not find a park to run in?
     
  9. Richie

    Richie Red Card

    May 6, 1999
    Brooklyn, NY, United
    Elroy made a good point. Streets was a bad choice of words. Depends where you live if you live in a country area a cross country run. Since the running area even on those runs is not always a level surface it is possible to trip and get ankle sprains even from these runs :).

    The incident I was talking about with the car happened in a wooded area inside the boundaries of a large college campus.

    Sometimes it is good for the player on a long run mentally to have a destination.

    Richie
     
  10. Elroy

    Elroy New Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    I wish that I'd played for or with you!

    Roy
     
  11. saabrian

    saabrian Member

    Mar 25, 2002
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think I misread your post and inferred you did these things during practice. Whatever the case may be, as I re-read the posts, it's obvious my brain wasn't functioning well when I wrote the last sentence. You're right that plyos and a weight-training regime should be supervised by a coach or some other knowledgable adult. And in fact, our fitness program was recently initiated and run by the other modified coach.

    As for Richie's comments, I agree that aerobic fitness is extremely important in soccer. We do in fact have the kids do a bit of pure running during the pre-season, especially for the first week and a half. But for the last week before the first game and during the season, we don't do it very much.

    Yes it's important, but at the higher levels, dedicated players should be disciplined enough to run on their own. (THIS is what meant about the captains). If they're not in shape, they don't play. I'm not going to spend valuable practice time on having them run 2 miles. In the beginning of pre-season perhaps, but not for the duration of the season.
     
  12. Elroy

    Elroy New Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    I think that you're trying to argue an inarguable case. There is no question that if a coach has limited time and no preseason that the vast majority of that time should be spent on teaching the game.

    What both Ritchie and I are trying to say is that it is possible to incorporate a good deal of aerobic and anaerobic fitness training using the ball. Additionally, I am also saying that you can incorporate a considerable amount of strength training in a brief time ( and on the practice field ) if you are careful of your choice of apparatus and exercises. I always included pull ups, dips, and plyo's in my warm up. I always ended my sessions ( pre cooldown ) with Vern Gambetta's " Big House Circuit ". The problem with weight training is that it is difficult to continue it beyond the beginning of pre-season. By incorporating exercise strength training with the weights, I always was able to continue strength training throughout the season.
     
  13. saabrian

    saabrian Member

    Mar 25, 2002
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with you. In fact, this was the premise of my original post.

    I wasn't really arguing a case so much as presenting my philosophy and seeing what others thought about it. It's in that spirit that I do appreciate the feedback of you and the others. I only have one year experience as an assistant so it's not like I know everything. I'll mention these things to my colleague and see about incorporating them. Thanks.
     
  14. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    i got a question that i think is basically true


    when is the offseason for most soccer players that fitness training is going to be needed for?


    meaning this

    most players that play at a level where fitness is going to be a requirement will be playing year round... i did, hell i did starting around the 3rd or 4th grade til whenever i quit the sport

    so i really don't understand how you can say that there should be a running with the ball pre and during season... but off season without

    there is no off season

    so shouldn't you rethink it?



    serious question now, not being a dick




    i do believe that fitness training should be done, but i think it isn't anywhere near as cut and dry as you say... hell, highschool is crap from what most people say... you make it on the club level... but even then, you got indoor and what not that make seasons last until you quit playing... when is this non season time???
     
  15. Richie

    Richie Red Card

    May 6, 1999
    Brooklyn, NY, United
    "There is no off season."

    Well there is some truth to that for some teams and players, but not for everyone.

    Usually, there is an off season in adult and youth play even if your season is a fall/spring season. The season starts mid Sept. maybe even the beginning of October and runs into December, and then you have down time the last part of Dec until end of Feb.and starts again in March or mid March until June then more down time from July and August.

    Or you have HS season in youth that replaces club during fall or spring.

    No down time? Maybe if you play a lot of tournament soccer outside and indoors during that time. That also takes a lot of money that not all clubs have.

    So the down time before the start of the season is end of June to end of august. That is the time to work on fitness

    Also in youth play there is an off season here during the same time periods.

    In youth you have many more tournaments then you have in the mens league. Mainly because the clubs use tournaments to get money for their own youth club programs.

    Some club teams don't enter because of lack of money, and some enter everything because they have money.

    In youth you also have parents taking the players on vacations. Some parents use tournaments as there vacations.

    There is certain work that you can't work on for just a couple of weeks and see a difference in the players game. I think the most important off season work is to get that exposion of speed off the playeras first step. Very important in the mens game and at the professional level.

    So you decide what is more important to the player. Try to get that burst to beat the first defender during the off season as well as regular fitness or play in tournaments?

    What's more fun? Tournaments. What's better for the player? Working on their game. After the work beating players one on one is more fun.
     
  16. JohnW

    JohnW Member

    Apr 27, 2001
    St. Paul
    I agree with Richie's answer, but let me add that there is a difference between game fitness and general fitness. That's in any sport, with any athlete.

    Second, I appreciate the comment about captains holding players' feet to the fire on training.

    My observation, though, is that the general level of team fitness improves, but there still is a difference between getting the team ready for the season and where the come into practice. Otherwise, why have any preseason? Let the players work on fitness, tactics and technique on their own, and then show up for the first game. (Overstatement, but you get the point.)

    Whereever you fall on the philosophical level about fitness training, team workouts help build team unity and help prepare your team for the season.

    jgw
     
  17. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    i still don't like the answer

    it seems to run with the notion that you are the player's only team

    which isn't going to be the case, unless the player sucks
     
  18. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    It may help to look at how often you have practice. I don't know your situation, but I often see young teams only practice once or twice a week. If that is the case, it's not nearly often enough for kids to get any useful fitness work done. Unless you practice 3 or more times a week, try to tell the kids to do fitness themselves so that at least you don't waste your practice time with it.
     
  19. JohnW

    JohnW Member

    Apr 27, 2001
    St. Paul
    It's not that hard really.

    Most players have a primary team and use others to fill in during their off-season.

    As noted above, many of these teams have limited practice times--the focus is on playing games. While this is helpful for a player's development, it is not the same as playing for the primary team or club.

    jgw
     
  20. Elroy

    Elroy New Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Off-season

    One of the problems facing all coaches since the comercialization of soccer is the lack of an off-season. " Professional " soccer coaches need consistent monthly incomes. As a result, they pressure parents and players into intense, year round schedules. They play on fears that if kids don't work hard year round, they will fall behind.

    The problem is that kids need periods of active rest. They need recovery time - both mental and physical. The younger one is, the more time that is needed. Constant pressure of highly competitive play wears down players. They need periods of
    " learning time " between competitive seasons. I believe that this is essential to player development.

    If you are a player trapped in an interminably long competitive play schedule, you need to demand time away. You need time to develop physically, time to strength train, time to let muscles and joints recover. You also need time to reflect on your game away from the competitive pressure of the next, next match. If you are a really great player and athlete, you can call your own shots.
     
  21. JohnW

    JohnW Member

    Apr 27, 2001
    St. Paul
    As they say in England: spot on.
     
  22. helmzgk

    helmzgk New Member

    Jun 14, 2002
    california
    At 11-14 yrs of age it's wise to just have these kids touch the ball all practice. You can sub these kids in and out numerous times in a game so they have breaks and so forth.
    Once you get into high school the fittest teams win. It's never the best teams or the biggest teams, it's always the fittest teams. This way you can run circles around defenders all game long. Even at the Varsity level after the first half, the midfielders stop moping around and walking, and the forwards will just stand there. They're all out of shape. In high school, for a three hour practice, you run for two hours and touch the ball for an hour.
    Club soccer for high school kids solely depends on high school to keep their players fit. Not many club teams have their players run 2 or 3 miles then do wind sprints during practice. My club team was very successful and we'd touch the ball the entire three hours of practice because our coach knew we were coming from a high school practice an hour previous that had us running.
     

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