Posted by Beetle Bailey on 01 Sep 2001 01:45 PM: I'm not kidding.. Sack him.. It's Steve Sampson all over again... As someone else pointed out.. atleast Sampson never was embarrassed at home, and he had FAR less talent available.. Bruce's insistance to play these Euro trash dogs like Kirovski, Cherundolo, Sanneh, Regis, JMM and his "boys" like Agoos, Llamosa, etc.. is just making me sick and is an exact replica of the kind of B.S. Sampson was pulling back in his years.. Bruce doesn't believe in MLS.. He has proven it time and time again with his selections. Here's my ratings of today's performance set up in 3 groups Good/Effective Donovan -- MLS C.Jones -- MLS Preki -- MLS Stewart -- Holland 1st So-so/Mediocre Henderson -- MLS Pope -- MLS Friedel - Eng 1st COMPLETE SUCK Agoos -- MLS/Bruce's boy Cherundolo -- German 2nd/Bruce's boy Armas -- MLS/Bruce's boy Regis -- French 1st Sanneh -- German 1st/Bruce's boy The 3 of the 4 most effective players today are MLS players who aren't sleeping with Bruce. Let's face it.. Arena is not going to drop those guys... You know he's already promised Agoos a starting spot in World Cup 2002 because he feels sorry for the slow old dirtbag... If you think Cherundolo/Pope/Agoos/Regis is the back line that gets us to the 2nd round, you better wake up right now because you are in a fantasy world.. Don't give me this injury blabber either.. Sampson had injuries.. and his teams haven't looked as bad as Bruce's last two matches have.. 0-0-3 in World Cup 2002, 32nd place.. Congratulations Bruce.. GIVE SOME QUALITY PLAYERS A CHANCE YOU SACK OF DIRT!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Fah Que on 01 Sep 2001 03:05 PM: Unfortunately Bruce is still a god like figure for DCU fans. Bruce is phony and a fraud. He brings college tactics in international level and plays his college pets. If soccer is mainstream he wouldn't have a job right now. Posted by Felix World soccer on 01 Sep 2001 03:35 PM: Ok, Dr. Heckle and Mr. Hyde, We love him, we hate him. Quit this nonsense! We lost to a perfectly good team that has MAD speed and came with FEW injuries to the starting lineup. The only people I question Bruce Arena from all the people he chose for the National team were Kirovski and "ankle biter" Williams. These two have no place on the squad for one has not proven his worth (at all) and the other is NOT the future of the US nats. As for the rest of WC qualifying, Bruce has been very conservative all the way. He is playing it safe and most of the time it has paid off. This last game was a sham though. THe defence was crap and our attacking, once again, was crap. If it hasn't been for Stewart we'd have looked really bad. Our front line doesn't take it to the defence enough. Our defence is PAINFULLY slow. If we take this same defence to the WC we are in for a short WC again. We need speed and we need it bad! CONCACAF is not known for the best fowards and today we were hit with some seriously fast one's. Hell, this is the worst showing of our defence in YEARS! The one thing we had going for us throughout the qualifiers was our "D" and now it is suspect. Bruce has got to reevaluate his options and start thinking about some new faces before we hit the WC. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Elninho on 01 Sep 2001 04:49 PM: To everyone who wants to slam the current lineup: OK, who do we have who's better, and more importantly, not currently injured? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Cweedchop on 01 Sep 2001 07:25 PM: Right....... So? Who exactly replaces Arena for Wednesday's game and the rest of qualifying? And furthermore, who replaces that coach after we lose on Wednesday? Do you see where I am going with this? You simply can't fire every coach after a loss in WC qualifying.. We are not the United Arab Emirates... Sometimes you just have to give the credit to the opposition and today was one of those times.. Honduras was very impressive and attacked us in our one weak spot, the wings.... It's OK to get a little emotional after losing such a critical game, but you just can't go off the deep end after every loss.. You totally lose any objectivity whatsoever when you fall to knee jerk reactions.. It's funny, after this team started the Hex 4-0, where the hell were you guys calling for his head then? We're still in good position to qualify despite a poor run of form but until we actually are eliminated, why all the hostility? I understand the frustration but come on get a grip.. I don't deny that we have looked very poor recently but it is no reason to fly off the handle.... Beetle, it's kind of funny that you say that Arena dismisses MLS so easily yet 5 of your top 7 players are MLS players.. Kind of contradicting yourself aren't you? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Melloblkmon on 01 Sep 2001 09:08 PM: quote: Originally posted by Beetle Bailey Let's face it.. Arena is not going to drop those guys... You know he's already promised Agoos a starting spot in World Cup 2002 because he feels sorry for the slow old dirtbag... Hold on a darn minute chief!!!!! I can understand the frustration today but Goose doesn't deserve that kind of disrespect!!! Here's a guy who has given his heart and soul to the Program and you have the nerve to call him a dirtbag? I am never one to flame or insult but you might want to take a long look in the mirror man. Jeff Agoos is certainly not the fastest guy on the squad and has made his share of errors, but a dirtbag is something i'd be willing to bet a whole lot of money that I don't have he is not. Being dedicated hardworking and having a dream to play in the WC does not make a man a dirtbag. I personally think it makes him a whole heck of a lot more of a man than you will ever be!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Ian McCracken on 01 Sep 2001 09:35 PM: I've got one serious problem with The Bruce and that is Jovan Kirovski. This guy had NO business being on the field for 65 minutes. After the first half, at least, it was clear we were going nowhere offensively with Kirovski. To wait another 20 minutes with him in the lineup was enough to cost us the game. And Agoos, for crying out loud. It was only a matter of time until Agoof cost us another qualifier. We've been told time and time again that Agoof is quicker than he appears by all the DCU apologists. Well, today, we suffered because of it. A lack of common sense created a PK situation which put the USA in a terrible hole. Unless The Bruce wises up and realizes who can and can't play at the international level the better off we'll be. Agoof is a decent enough player in MLS and in qualifiers against Bermuda. When it comes to this final round level he is slow, fat, and not sufficiently technical with the ball. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 01 Sep 2001 10:01 PM: quote: Originally posted by Beetle Bailey Bruce doesn't believe in MLS.. He has proven it time and time again with his selections. This is quite possibly the single stupidest statement I have ever read on Bigsoccer and I cannot believe no one else has called him on it. This explains why Beetle Bailey was a private for all those years in the comics. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kebzach on 02 Sep 2001 12:29 AM: Re: quote: Originally posted by Beetle Bailey Bruce doesn't believe in MLS.. He has proven it time and time again with his selections. Ok Josh. Sure. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by BillP on 02 Sep 2001 05:04 AM: why is that certain us fans complain everytime there is a loss? oh crap, we lost by a goal, fire the coach! what kind of statement is this? that's like saying, my girlfriend is sick? she's gone! my car has to go to the shop for an oil change? it's gone. my broker has made me thousands, but just lost a few hundred, he's gone! where's the logic? arena has turned things around. do you remember when he took over? november 1998. do you remember how down the us program was in the wake of the 1998 world cup? bruce brought in new players, experimented, etc. the fact of the matter is that he has increased our depth (along with mls) and he realizes that credit is due to mls (beetle, you're just wrong). we're not always going to win. we're not the best team in the world, get over it. and how many guys are we missing. let's see.....reyna, mathis, wolff, mcbride, olsen, o'brien.........that's at least six good players. i think he's doing alright and it's time you guys back off. i guess we could always bring in a foreign coach who has absolutely no clue about american players. that's a great solution! c'mon guys, it's not like arena is rongen. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Metros#1 on 02 Sep 2001 05:34 AM: quote: Originally posted by Elninho To everyone who wants to slam the current lineup: OK, who do we have who's better, and more importantly, not currently injured? For defense, there are many fast, tough and smart defenders in MLS starting for their teams. Those guys can stay with those fast Honduran forwards, certainly better than Regis, 'Dolo, Agoos etc. But, you know what -- they have very little international experience, so they are not useful at this juncture. Who's fault is that?? We definitely should NOT fire Bruce. Overall, he has done a decent-to-good job. But, he should be criticized for poor preparations for the 2nd half of WCQ -- while CR, MEX and HON were tuning their teams in Copa America, US was sitting idle for two months. Posted by Elninho on 02 Sep 2001 09:13 AM: Random comment: are we sure we want people "believing in MLS" too much? Mathis, Wolff, McBride, Convey, and Stoichkov all "believed in MLS" and look where it got all five of them... apparently believing in MLS is a dangerous thing this year.
Posted by Beetle Bailey on 02 Sep 2001 10:03 AM: Don't even make me pull out the statistics of how much more effective our MLS-based national teams are than our foreign-based national teams.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 02 Sep 2001 10:11 AM: That wasn't what you said. You said Arena didn't believe in MLS and that was borne out by his selections. Normally, I'd spend the time going through each and every lineup Arena had ever put out there in a meaningful competition (not friendlies) to see whether he'd shown a preference to MLS players vs. European-based players. But you do it. Support your position. Check the number of MLS guys who've gotten their first cap under Arena. Check the number of guys who've gotten called into training camp as a reward for good play in MLS. You think he just likes Nick Rimando for some reason? Or did Nick Rimando do something to earn a spot on the bench for the Mexico game? Something like lead MLS in Goals Against Average the first half of the season? Saying Bruce Arena doesn't believe in MLS is like saying Wade Boggs doesn't believe in chicken. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by nancyb on 02 Sep 2001 10:14 AM: quote: Originally posted by Beetle Bailey Don't even make me pull out the statistics of how much more effective our MLS-based national teams are than our foreign-based national teams.. I won't make you, but why don't do it anyway? I'd like to read it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Beetle Bailey on 02 Sep 2001 10:48 AM: Why does continue to start Kirovski? Why is a Razov playing in Second Division Spain, better than a Razov playing in MLS? The only players in MLS he believes in, are the ones that he already has strong affiliations with.. It took two injuries in C-Bus for us to discover how great Wolff and Mathis really were.. Preki, Donovan should have been apart of this squad from the beginning of qualifying this year.. Why does Manny Lagos continue to be ignored?? He's been performing game in and game out, scoring and creating goals for his club team... Sure, he finally gets called up.. years after he first have should have been given a chance by Bruce.. This isn't new for Lagos.. He produced in years past for Tampa Bay as well. Why hasn't Cobi been playing this entire time?? Screw 70th minute sub bull$hit.. Cobi Jones is a damn excellent player, and he proved his dangerousness yesterday.. There's no reason why he shouldn't be starting over Sanneh on the right wing in a 4-4-2... Do you remember who had the game winning assist in RFK that put us over Guatamala, and essentially through to the next round?? Did you notice something yesterday?? Our offense was actually somewhat effective?? I don't give full credit to a 4-3-3 for being the reason why.. The reason why, was the players on the field.. Jones was effective.. Donovan was effective.. Donovan--Wolff -------Mathis -Lagos--------C.Jones --------Reyna Main offensive sub choices: McBride, Preki, Henderson, That's my all-healthy Strikers/Midfield.. Can you imagine that?? If we can get a backline together with some speed, we might be able to get to the second round... Unfortunantly.. Arena doesn't have the noggins to think of this no-brain lineup.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by arefmusa on 02 Sep 2001 10:48 AM: I think this game was lost because of some mistake from the coach. Honduras have a very quick and fast offence and yes he choose to play Three flat in the back, US almost always play four and they do just fine. At the begining of the gmae Pavon have too good scoring oppurtinites, and the Bruce could have fixed the problem but he did'nt. I don't say FIRE the coach but I blame him for the defeat. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Fah Que on 02 Sep 2001 01:58 PM: What USSF should do is to host a mendatory press conference right after the match so soccer journalist can iterrogate Bruce. That is what every country does except US. That way a lot of nonsense can be stopped. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Captain10 on 02 Sep 2001 03:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by Cweedchop So? Who exactly replaces Arena for Wednesday's game and the rest of qualifying? And furthermore, who replaces that coach after we lose on Wednesday? Unfortunately, I think we will lose the game Wednesday (like I thought we would lose yesterday -- I was hoping I would be wrong). I say keep him for the rest of qualifying, but even IF (big if) ... we qualify for WC2002, we replace him with a top-level coach. quote: Originally posted by Cweedchop Sometimes you just have to give the credit to the opposition and today was one of those times.. Honduras was very impressive and attacked us in our one weak spot, the wings.... Interesting, that's what some people said after the Mexico game ... and the Jamaica game ... and ... Sorry... I think we were weak all over the field. Tactically we looked so much like an amateur team out there! We were beaten at every aspect of this game. Preparation, tactics, creativity, coaching. And when Honduras was running all over us with their breakaways, did we even once try to slow down the game? No. Unfortunately, we're not that intelligent. And neither is our coaching staff... quote: Originally posted by Cweedchop You totally lose any objectivity whatsoever when you fall to knee jerk reactions.. It's funny, after this team started the Hex 4-0, where the hell were you guys calling for his head then? Hi Cweed. Remember me? Yes, I was there fending off everyone who said, "It doesn't matter that we're not playing good ball, we're 4-0, who cares?!" Well, my argument was that it was going to catch up to us. And it has. THIS is why we can't be content when we're not playing good, sound ball... quote: Originally posted by Cweedchop We're still in good position to qualify despite a poor run of form but until we actually are eliminated, why all the hostility? I understand the frustration but come on get a grip.. I don't deny that we have looked very poor recently but it is no reason to fly off the handle.... We haven't been playing good ball during the entire qualification period. We squeaked through the first round. Had a couple of forces that made an impact during the first part of this phase of qualification (Mathis, Wolff) and have looked horrible since then. In fact, if you take out those 4 games (as in the 4-0), we have looked bad since the beginning of 2000. Our fundamentals are bad, our tactics are bad (and were terribly exposed vs Honduras), our team organization is bad, our team defense is bad, our offense is bad, our pressure on the ball is bad (how many times did we look like we were just chasing the ball when Honduras just touched it around our players?), we don't control the pace of the game, we only react, we panic, and worst of all ... we don't realize how bad we are... We have the players (not neccessarily the ones that Arena has selected) -- we desperately need a top-level coach to step in there and put some order and structure in for this team to start playing good ball. IMO that should happen at the end of this qualifying phase -- and before WC2002. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Cweedchop on 02 Sep 2001 04:18 PM: quote: Originally posted by Fah Que What USSF should do is to host a mendatory press conference right after the match so soccer journalist can iterrogate Bruce. That is what every country does except US. That way a lot of nonsense can be stopped. Ummm.... They already do this after each and every game.. Next dumb question please..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by carney on 02 Sep 2001 07:04 PM: It is clear to me that the players who have gotten us this far are simply not good enough to take us the rest of the way and do not deserve to play it out. So this is what needs to happen. 1) Bruce need to cut Reyna. Over and over again he misses qualifiers due to stupid little injuries. Anywhere else in the world players would gut it out for their countries. Clearly he has lost touch with what it means to be captain, and we should waste no time in getting rid of him. 2) We have a ton of midfielders but no forwards. Clearly we need to pack the midfield. Armas hasn't been getting the job done though, so bench him, and at defensive midfield put Daniel Hernandez and Pablo Mastroeni. Neither of them have any experience in qualifiers or World Cup games, but elsewhere in the world coaches would be bold enough to make this move, since it clearly needs to be made. 3) Bring Mathis back immediately. He has torn his ACL twice now, and while he isn't fully recovered, he is our most dangerous, creative player and should be on the field. History has shown that our best players at half speed are better than our mediocre players at full speed. 4) The four back formation has been a disaster for us. Our center backs are simply too slow. So I say bench Agoos and Llamosa, even though they've got us this far, and go to a three back formation. In the middle it will be David Regis. He is foreign and is therefore a superior soccer player to anyone that was raised in this country. For this reason he will also be the new captain. Pope will be on the right. And on the left, a man who has been in fine form for his club team, but who has not gotten so much as a look from Bruce. I am talking, of course, about the Kansas City Wizards Mike Burns. These measures will surely take US soccer to the next level and bring us respect and glory in 2002. Almost forgot...Can we get Jeff Cunnigham's citizenship rushed through and start him over Stewart, despite the fact that Stewart has played every game thus far? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Beetle Bailey on 02 Sep 2001 07:07 PM: Hey Arena... err carney.. Why don't you get off your silly computer and help your team prepare for there next match instead of doodling on BigSoccer.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by sabremike on 02 Sep 2001 08:06 PM: quote: Originally posted by Beetle Bailey Don't give me this injury blabber either.. Sampson had injuries.. and his teams haven't looked as bad as Bruce's last two matches have. Do you think it's a coincidence that the point where we stopped winning coincides with the point where all our top guys got hurt. Honduras is a real solid team, and we couldn't match up with them due to injuries. Blaming Bruce is a panic button move that makes no sense. The guy has won at every level he's coached, including the DC dynasty. If we miss WC 2002, then you can sack him, but give him a chance. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by carney on 02 Sep 2001 10:09 PM: quote: Originally posted by Beetle Bailey Hey Arena... err carney.. Why don't you get off your silly computer and help your team prepare for there next match instead of doodling on BigSoccer.. Thanks, Private Bailey, I'll do just that. And let me tell you I've got some great new ideas for practice which I think will be helpful. I don't want to give anything away to the Costa Ricans, but let me just say that they involve holding hands. How could we lose!? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Elninho on 02 Sep 2001 10:13 PM: quote: Originally posted by Beetle Bailey Don't give me this injury blabber either.. Sampson had injuries.. and his teams haven't looked as bad as Bruce's last two matches have. Sampson didn't have nearly as many injuries. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by DCUEagles on 02 Sep 2001 10:19 PM: It's funny, after this team started the Hex 4-0, where the hell were you guys calling for his head then? well said, You got to give the guy a chance. I happen to think that he has done really well. You also have to keep in mind all the injuries there are right now. We were just outplayed by Hon. You got to give them credit, there passing was increadable and the speed that there fowards had, was just to much. Erine played great, despite the PK. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Beetle Bailey on 02 Sep 2001 10:25 PM: DCU.. we were here.. We were bitching about the teams performance.. and we were barraged with replies "We are 3-0-0.. What the @#$! more do you want from Arena?" Probably rightfully so.. but you see now what we were getting at right? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by DCUEagles on 03 Sep 2001 01:21 AM: BB.. all I am saying is that you have to take the good with the bad. You can't scream bloody murder because we lost one game (to a better team I might add). As far as hearing you guys complain, I sure as heck didn't hear one peep for anyone. You all just got on the wagon! (like your doing now) I still think that Bruce is the best coach for this job right now! You have to take into consideration that he can only select certain players for certin games. For example, The keeper situation: There is no way that I would pick Fridel over Kasey (however, the fact that Keller is not getting playing time with T. Hotspur, makes a big difference. He is not as match sharp as Fridel, thus Fridel gets the start over a better Keeper). It also is the injuries too. I mean come on, almost the whole frontline and midfield is out. You can't expect to win a match with the 2nd string players in there. Now, I'm not saying that the Coach is not entirely to blame, all I am saying is that with Arena's record so far with the Nats, you have to give him the benefit. The bottom line is, as long as he has a winning record, the federation will stand by him. As far as advancing to the second round in the WC, we have to get there first. I believe that we will make it and that Arena is the man who will do it. We really only need to win at least one more game to be in. I do understand what you are saying BB, and after all this is the land of the free. There are two heads to every coin.
Posted by superp19 on 03 Sep 2001 02:06 AM: the fact is that Bruce was successful at the beginning of his reign when he took big gambles, and basically started the national team from scratch. Then he had no problem with the amount of experience a player because he knew we needed a change. Now the problem is that he does not see the need for a change when the rest of americn soccer apparently does. he seems ok to rely on a team that scraped through the first round a qualifiers. We started the second round playing well when we relied on two players, mathis and wolff, who were previously not prepared to start. Now that they r hurt we r back to the first round team, and we r playing pathetic soccer. Bruce should have kept gambling with the squad like he did in the beginning and this current injury crisis would not have been as serious. just think how good we would be now if bruce repeatedly called in players like petke, mastroeni, daniel hernandez, convey, damarcus beasley, and a current hot striker like quartana, buddle, cunningham or even casey. if these guys were regularly in camp and being pepared to wc qualifiers in friendly games we would not be in this situation. the fact is that injuries happen in sports, and bruce should have been prparing for the worst, instead of the best. On the issue of a new coach if Bruce got fired it should be bob bradley. very good coach, knows bruces system, but is willing to change the system based on his players which bruce seems reluctant to do, and he takes big risks. he has turned 3 questionable players like curtin, j. beasley, and wynalda into key members of one of the best squads in mls. bruce needs to bring in new and questionable blood in to squad fast. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Captain10 on 03 Sep 2001 06:41 AM: Re: quote: Originally posted by sabremike Do you think it's a coincidence that the point where we stopped winning coincides with the point where all our top guys got hurt. Honduras is a real solid team, and we couldn't match up with them due to injuries. Blaming Bruce is a panic button move that makes no sense. The injuries have had an impact, but even more of an impact is our poor tactics, player selection, and preparation. Even before the injuries we played bad soccer. When Mathis and Wolff stepped in, we didn't play great, but we had a couple of guys that were finally adding some intelligent play. With them gone, we've taken an even bigger step backward -- now we're playing horrible ball. And as long as Arena believes that, "we didn't play a bad game" vs Honduras, we'll never get any of it fixed. If you're a mediocre team and aren't doing anything to get better, you're going to remain mediocre. And mediocre teams usually don't qualify for the WC... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 03 Sep 2001 08:44 AM: As an American and as a soccer fan, it does my heart proud to know that when USSF finally wises up and fires Arena, who really has never accomplished anything as a coach, that they will be able to look no farther than Bigsoccer to find any number of candidates who could step in at a moment's notice and do a much better job than that poser. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Bluecat82 on 03 Sep 2001 09:40 AM: One more time... ...and I'm going to ask this on every one of these stupid "Fire Bruce" threads until I get an answer... Names, boys, names...who are your candidates? There's one other guy in the US Nats system that might be a candidate...John Ellinger of the U-17's...course, he's a bit busy at the moment... MLS...one guy...Bob Bradley. Unless any of you are truly delusional and think freakin' Ray Hudson would be better... Overseas guys? Tried to go that route when we canned Bora...no one wanted the job. Bueller...Bueller... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by DCUEagles on 03 Sep 2001 12:51 PM: Kenn, You got to be kidding me, Arena has not accomplished anything!! Seriously, your kidding right! He has won 5 NCAA Championships, 2 MLS Championships, 1 Inter-america (best club team in the americas), 1 CONFCAF (best club team in the region )and 1 US open cup. He is probably the most successful American coach ever. I don't understand why you would want to fire a coach because his team loses one game. Learn who your talking about before you say anything! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Beetle Bailey on 03 Sep 2001 12:59 PM: Even some of us DCU supporters can't pick up sarcasm eh DCUEagles ?? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 03 Sep 2001 03:41 PM: quote: Originally posted by DCUEagles Kenn, You got to be kidding me, Arena has not accomplished anything!! Seriously, your kidding right! He has won 5 NCAA Championships, 2 MLS Championships, 1 Inter-america (best club team in the americas), 1 CONFCAF (best club team in the region )and 1 US open cup. He is probably the most successful American coach ever. I don't understand why you would want to fire a coach because his team loses one game. Learn who your talking about before you say anything! J*** C*****, you dolt. I thought about noting that that post contained total sarcasm, but I figured anyone over the age of 10 would be able to figure that out. Guess I was wrong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by weasel on 03 Sep 2001 06:49 PM: quote: Originally posted by Captain10 ... We haven't been playing good ball during the entire qualification period. We squeaked through the first round. Had a couple of forces that made an impact during the first part of this phase of qualification (Mathis, Wolff) and have looked horrible since then. In fact, if you take out those 4 games (as in the 4-0), we have looked bad since the beginning of 2000. ... Gee, you know what, if you take out all the games we've won or tied since '98, Arena is the worst coach in history. Additionally, if you take out the players that were a "force" earlier, the team plays worse. That's some brilliant and insightful analysis. Maybe you can take over for Arena. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by DCUEagles on 04 Sep 2001 01:14 PM: Alright, look, I'm sorry !!!!! I wasn't sure if you were kidding that's all!! SORRY !!!!!!!!!!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 04 Sep 2001 01:24 PM: Sorry I jumped on you, too. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by PSU92 on 04 Sep 2001 01:54 PM: quote: Originally posted by Ian McCracken I've got one serious problem with The Bruce and that is Jovan Kirovski. This guy had NO business being on the field for 65 minutes. After the first half, at least, it was clear we were going nowhere offensively with Kirovski. To wait another 20 minutes with him in the lineup was enough to cost us the game. And Agoos, for crying out loud. It was only a matter of time until Agoof cost us another qualifier. We've been told time and time again that Agoof is quicker than he appears by all the DCU apologists. Well, today, we suffered because of it. A lack of common sense created a PK situation which put the USA in a terrible hole. Unless The Bruce wises up and realizes who can and can't play at the international level the better off we'll be. Agoof is a decent enough player in MLS and in qualifiers against Bermuda. When it comes to this final round level he is slow, fat, and not sufficiently technical with the ball. What the hell are you talking about? Regis left him hung out to dry a dozen times on Saturday. He got burnt once on a penalty that wasn't his fault. Goose was not the problem on Saturday -- Regis & Steve C. were. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Captain10 on 04 Sep 2001 01:56 PM: quote: Originally posted by weasel That's some brilliant and insightful analysis. Maybe you can take over for Arena. Sure. Just have 'em give me a call. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by dwwasdc on 04 Sep 2001 02:02 PM: quote: Originally posted by Beetle Bailey Why does continue to start Kirovski? Why is a Razov playing in Second Division Spain, better than a Razov playing in MLS? Razov was injured and therefore not called into camp.... quote: The only players in MLS he believes in, are the ones that he already has strong affiliations with.. It took two injuries in C-Bus for us to discover how great Wolff and Mathis really were.. Yeah, first players off the bench. Both featured in friendlies. Josh, a star at the Olympics. Bruce obviously had no clue who they were. quote: Preki, Donovan should have been apart of this squad from the beginning of qualifying this year.. Preki, the KC castaway who has REVIVED his career in Miami, didn't deserve consideration until recently. Donovan was called in to the Mexico game, but Wolff went in instead. quote: Why does Manny Lagos continue to be ignored?? He's been performing game in and game out, scoring and creating goals for his club team... Sure, he finally gets called up.. years after he first have should have been given a chance by Bruce.. This isn't new for Lagos.. He produced in years past for Tampa Bay as well. Manny "A-League" Lagos. NOW, and only now, does he deserve to be considered. quote: Why hasn't Cobi been playing this entire time?? Screw 70th minute sub bull$hit.. Cobi Jones is a damn excellent player, and he proved his dangerousness yesterday.. There's no reason why he shouldn't be starting over Sanneh on the right wing in a 4-4-2... Do you remember who had the game winning assist in RFK that put us over Guatamala, and essentially through to the next round?? Cobi was the laziest SOB on the field UNTIL the 70th minute, thus proving that he's only a 20-30 minute player, which is too bad. I thought he'd play better. When he had his assist against Guatemala, by the way, he came in as a sub. quote: Did you notice something yesterday?? No, it's completely obvious that only you notice things.... quote: Our offense was actually somewhat effective?? I don't give full credit to a 4-3-3 for being the reason why.. The reason why, was the players on the field.. Jones was effective.. Donovan was effective.. Of course, you're bashing Arena's choice of players. quote: Donovan--Wolff -------Mathis -Lagos--------C.Jones --------Reyna ... Unfortunantly.. Arena doesn't have the noggins to think of this no-brain lineup.. No Brain....very good assessment of your efforts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Mutineer on 04 Sep 2001 02:52 PM: quote: Originally posted by carney 1) Bruce need to cut Reyna. Over and over again he misses qualifiers due to stupid little injuries. Anywhere else in the world players would gut it out for their countries. Clearly he has lost touch with what it means to be captain, and we should waste no time in getting rid of him. 3) Bring Mathis back immediately. He has torn his ACL twice now, and while he isn't fully recovered, he is our most dangerous, creative player and should be on the field. History has shown that our best players at half speed are better than our mediocre players at full speed. 4) The four back formation has been a disaster for us. Our center backs are simply too slow. So I say bench Agoos and Llamosa, even though they've got us this far, and go to a three back formation. In the middle it will be David Regis. He is foreign and is therefore a superior soccer player to anyone that was raised in this country. For this reason he will also be the new captain. Pope will be on the right. And on the left, a man who has been in fine form for his club team, but who has not gotten so much as a look from Bruce. I am talking, of course, about the Kansas City Wizards Mike Burns. These measures will surely take US soccer to the next level and bring us respect and glory in 2002. Almost forgot...Can we get Jeff Cunnigham's citizenship rushed through and start him over Stewart, despite the fact that Stewart has played every game thus far? This is, without question, the dumbest post I have seen to date on Bigsoccer. Boil it down, and here is what you are saying: 1. Cut our best player because he is injured. 2. Bring back injured players before they are ready. 3. Bring back a mediocre MLS player that was a major liability in the last world cup. 4. Dismantle the defense that has allowed the fewest goals (by far) in the Hex. 5. Bench our highest-scoring player in all-time qualifiying for a guy that has never played in an international match. Oh yeah, these ideas are the work of a genius.
Posted by ctruppi on 04 Sep 2001 03:22 PM: quote: Originally posted by PSU92 What the hell are you talking about? Regis left him hung out to dry a dozen times on Saturday. He got burnt once on a penalty that wasn't his fault. Goose was not the problem on Saturday -- Regis & Steve C. were. I have been one of a handful of posters clamoring for the use of a 3-5-2. Why, because our outside defenders can't attack (the most important aspect of creating offense with a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3), Furthermore, our central defenders are too slow and lack technical ability to cover for these non-attacking backs when they do attack! In any case, we should be playing 3 across the back with two holding mids (one being Reyna who can actually create some link between Defense and Attack). Agoos should not be out there at any point. He was not "hung out to dry". He failed to do what is a chief assignment for a central D in a flat back 4 with the wing-backs attacking, COVER THEIR A$$ min case of a counter!! You have one of two choices as far as I see it. The one who left his team out to dry was Bruce, by playing tactics and personnel right into Honduras' game-plan! Also, Kenn, please don't give us this bs about Arena winning at all these levels. To compare winning NCAA titles and MLS championships to coaching a natioanl team with high aspirations for the world cup is like saying you flew model planes and therefore are ready to captain the space shuttle!! I like Bruce as an MLS coach, but I am one of the few who have been warning (even in victory) about the shoddy play of the team. Even during shut-outs there were some nasty signs that told any soccer-savy viewer that this team was in trouble vs any decent opponent with speed and skill! Now we lose to Honduras and some of you guys make it sound like they are the 2nd coming of '70 Brazil. Wake up, Honduras may not even qualify for the WC!! And please don't give me this BS about injuries. The worst players on the field were the ususal suspects that some of us here have been begging Bruce to replace again, even in victory (Sanneh, Agoos,Armas, Cherundolo and Regis). I hate to say it, but 4 years from now, we'll be talking about the horrible days of Bruce's reign with the same bile that we produce when talking about Sampson's days!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 04 Sep 2001 03:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by ctruppi Also, Kenn, please don't give us this bs about Arena winning at all these levels. To compare winning NCAA titles and MLS championships to coaching a natioanl team with high aspirations for the world cup is like saying you flew model planes and therefore are ready to captain the space shuttle!! Or, rather, it's quite like saying that because you come from a foreign country that obviously knows a lot about the game and have watched soccer on TV and maybe played and you post a lot on Bigsoccer that you know better than someone who has won championships at all those levels that you denigrate and does coach the National Team. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Ian McCracken on 04 Sep 2001 03:55 PM: quote: Originally posted by PSU92 What the hell are you talking about? Regis left him hung out to dry a dozen times on Saturday. He got burnt once on a penalty that wasn't his fault. Goose was not the problem on Saturday -- Regis & Steve C. were. Regis did not hang Agoos out to dry. Regis was pushing up into the midfield per the instructions from Bruce. Arena has been trashing Regis in the press to cover for his own woeful tactical decisions. Agoos was a problem on Saturday. How can you possibly say the penalty was not his fault when he clearly chopped down the player from behind. It was unnecessary and could've been avoided had he the proper speed and agility. If Arena would wise up and play a flat back four of Berhalter, Llamosa, Pope, and Regis we would not be having this conversation. Agoos is THE liability on this defense. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Captain10 on 04 Sep 2001 04:42 PM: quote: Originally posted by ctruppi ... but I am one of the few who have been warning (even in victory) about the shoddy play of the team. Even during shut-outs there were some nasty signs that told any soccer-savy viewer that this team was in trouble vs any decent opponent with speed and skill! ... And please don't give me this BS about injuries. The worst players on the field were the ususal suspects that some of us here have been begging Bruce to replace again, even in victory (Sanneh, Agoos,Armas, Cherundolo and Regis). I concur. I've gotten blasted in the past for stating the same thing. (That's OK, but I actually wish Arena had gotten it together and learned from the poor play, but he hasn't.) The usual responses were, "we're 4-0-0, how much better do we have to be?!" and "we're winning and getting points, who cares how we're playing!" Well, when you're playing poorly and getting *lucky* wins, eventually it will come back to bite you -- especially if you don't do anything to try to correct the deficiencies (caused by poor tactics and poor player selection). We're going through EXACTLY what some of us wanted to avoid ... And unfortunately, we're saying we played well when we played terribly. They say admitting you have a problem is the first step. I wonder when our coaching staff will realize that and have time to correct it. Hopefully, before it's too late ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by FormerGermanGuy on 04 Sep 2001 05:11 PM: quote: Originally posted by Mutineer This is, without question, the dumbest post I have seen to date on Bigsoccer. Boil it down, and here is what you are saying: 1. Cut our best player because he is injured. 2. Bring back injured players before they are ready. 3. Bring back a mediocre MLS player that was a major liability in the last world cup. 4. Dismantle the defense that has allowed the fewest goals (by far) in the Hex. 5. Bench our highest-scoring player in all-time qualifiying for a guy that has never played in an international match. Oh yeah, these ideas are the work of a genius. Go back and read the post in a little more sarcastic light... there you go... see how he mirrors most of Sampson's worst moves in his recommendations? He almost recommend the 3-6-1 but that would have been too obvious so he said we had to 'pack the midfield and go to a 3-back set'. This is what is called satire in some circles. And first-rate satire, I might add. Nice job Carney, you got Mutineer with it um, you WERE kidding, right? Please? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 04 Sep 2001 05:24 PM: Be afraid. Be very afraid. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by hotspur01 on 04 Sep 2001 05:39 PM: Originally posted by PSU92 : What the hell are you talking about? Regis left him hung out to dry a dozen times on Saturday. He got burnt once on a penalty that wasn't his fault. Goose was not the problem on Saturday -- Regis & Steve C. were. Thank you, PSU92, for confirming I am not living in some delusional alternate universe. Regis was the slowest man on the planet Saturday. On the chip that went to the Friedel, who had to head the ball away, the Honduran forward blew by him like he was standing still (which he might have been). I thought Goose actually did a decent job of covering 'dolos and Regis' mistakes. And is it just me, or does anyone else think the PK's for both sides were more than a little iffy. I'm not generally one for criticizing the ref, and maybe this has been stated on another message, but our PK looked like a Stewart dive to me, and the challenge of Goose on the Honduran looked like a solid shoulder-to-shoulder charge to me and both went down to try to get the call. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Juan Luis Guerra on 04 Sep 2001 07:12 PM: quote: Originally posted by kenntomasch This is quite possibly the single stupidest statement I have ever read on Bigsoccer and I cannot believe no one else has called him on it. This explains why Beetle Bailey was a private for all those years in the comics. Mr Kenntomasch, are you in denial or what??? Of course Bruce Gay Arena does not believe in MLS players. It took him several "europeans" base players to be injured, in order to see Josh and Mathis in the line up. In fact, Ante was called when he was in Europe, but now that he was signed by MLS again, Arena left him out of the line up. You want more prove?????/ wake up from your stupidity -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 04 Sep 2001 07:49 PM: quote: Originally posted by Juan Luis Guerra Mr Kenntomasch, are you in denial or what??? Of course Bruce Gay Arena does not believe in MLS players. It took him several "europeans" base players to be injured, in order to see Josh and Mathis in the line up. In fact, Ante was called when he was in Europe, but now that he was signed by MLS again, Arena left him out of the line up. You want more prove?????/ wake up from your stupidity (a) Learn English (b) Do what I told Beetle Bailey to do - see how many MLS guys Arena calls in vs. European guys. See how many MLS guys Arena starts vs. European guys. See how many MLS guys Arena plays vs. European guys. See how many times MLS guys get their first caps under Arena. See how many guys get called in as a reward for good performances in MLS. Then tell me Bruce Arena doesn't believe in MLS. Yes, I do want more "prove" than those few instances. If those were, indeed, "prove" of anything. And these quotes you may have missed since some people obviously don't pay attention. This is Arena two days before the Honduras match: On Wolff's and Mathis' slow road to get into the National Team:"In summer of 2000 we made a decision to slowly transition Clint Mathis and Josh Wolff into our team." In the summer of 2000, Josh Wolff was a 23-year old player who had had a good year in 1999 in MLS (10 goals, 2 assists), but who had yet to star at the Olympics or the Mexico game. It seems to me that (a) Arena and his coaches probably didn't take as long to notice he could play as you did, seeing as how they see him a lot more than you do and (b) that bringing a young player along slowly rather than throwing him right into the fire is a prudent move. In the summer of 2000, Clint Mathis was a 23-year-old player who had scored 15 goals in 65 games for the Galaxy. He went to New York on May 16, and didn't score his MLS-record five goals in a game until August 26. By which time I'm guessing Arena and his coaches had figured out he was a pretty good player who should be making a contribution. But again, why rush him? Tell me that prior to the summer of 2000, you knew, and Bruce Arena and his coaches didn't, that Clint Mathis and Josh Wolff should be playing key roles for our National Team. And that they should play those key roles right away. On when Clint Mathis might come back:"Any time Clint comes back, it will be done on the medical team's sign off. Clint's club career, as well as his national team career, is ahead of him. The last thing we want to do is rush him back if he's not ready. Any time Clint steps back on the field with this team, either in training or in a game, it's going to be cleared by the medical team. I don't think we do the player justice or his club justice or the national team program justice if he's not ready to go. If he gets back to a point physically where everything looks okay and he gets the green light, we would eagerly take him back." Ever had Mathis' injury? Ever torn your ACL? Think you can just come back just like that, three months after the injury? Think you know more than the doctors? Think he's ready to play? How can you tell from the couch? On when Josh Wolff might come back:"It is possible. He has been away longer than Clint (injured on April 28). I know he’s back running again and if our medical staff and Chicago's medical staff gives him the green light to get back on the field we would be happy to have him." On releasing some guys from the 24-man roster (which, by the way, he had to do since you can only dress 18 for the match):"I will try to release a couple of players that could be available to play games this weekend. I will talk to those players and let them have a say in the decision. I would happy to keep all 24 of our players here, but at the same time we understand that a number of clubs in the MLS that are in a very important part of the season and could use the services of some of these players, so we are going to try and provide that option to some of our players." Sounds like a guy who doesn't believe in MLS. Doesn't want to help the league out at all by allowing them to have their players, or help the players out by giving them another match. 14 of the 24 players Arena called in for this match were MLS players. 13 of the 22 players Arena called in for the Mexico match were MLS players. 10 of the 23 players Arena called in for the Jamaica and Trinidad and Tobago matches were MLS players. 5 of the 18 players Arena called in for the friendly with Ecuador in Columbus on June 7 were MLS players (MLS teams played on June 6 and June 9, with the MetroStars and Colorado the only teams not playing) 20 of the 29 players Arena called in for the Costa Rica match were MLS players. 9 of the 20 players Arena called in for the match in Honduras were MLS players. 13 of the 16 players Arena took to the friendly against Brazil were MLS players. 15 of the 24 players Arena called in for the first Mexico match in Columbus were MLS players (four others, Ante Razov, Joe-Max Moore, Tony Sanneh, and Brad Friedel had previously played in MLS) 21 of the 23 players Arena called in for the friendly against China were MLS players. All 25 of the players Arena called in for the USA's first training camp of 2001 (Jan.15-18) were MLS players. There, I've done half your work for you. Mas preguntas, amigo? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 04 Sep 2001 08:13 PM: quote: Originally posted by dwwasdc Razov was injured and therefore not called into camp.... I'm not sure that's entirely true. He played 90 minutes for the Fire on Wednesday and on Saturday. Maybe he wasn't up to speed when Arena made the decisions, but he seemed fine last week. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by ctruppi on 04 Sep 2001 09:43 PM: Re: quote: Originally posted by kenntomasch Or, rather, it's quite like saying that because you come from a foreign country that obviously knows a lot about the game and have watched soccer on TV and maybe played and you post a lot on Bigsoccer that you know better than someone who has won championships at all those levels that you denigrate and does coach the National Team. First of all, I'm not calling for Arena to be fired. As others have stated, this isn't Cameroon where you fire coaches every other game, and I don't see who could possibly replace him. Secondly, I'm simply criticizing what I see on the pitch with my eyes. I think Agoos and Armas in particular are very overrated (by many on these boards). Whether in defeat or victory I do feel that the team has not played well, except in Columbus vs. Mexico. There are certain players who make you cringe when they have the ball in the attacking half (Sanneh anyone?). Although I don't watch as many games as Arena (my wife already is at her limit), I do know that I've seen some players in MLS who have the "potential" to be as good or better than some of the under-performers. When 2 of the biggest underperformers are ex DCU guys, all sorts of flags and bells and sirens start going off in my head about the coach! Also, I'll bet that we can bring in 100 highly experienced international coaches and many of them would not choose to play some of the players I'm talking about! Would I be right in my armchair asessment then, or do i always have the right (as a fan, even if only a foreign one) to call a spade a spade without many posters here falling back on their patended, knee-jerk response: of you know better than someone who has won championships at all those levels that you denigrate and does coach the National Team?!?! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Wagenhalz on 04 Sep 2001 09:55 PM: Re: Re: quote: Originally posted by ctruppi There are certain players who make you cringe when they have the ball in the attacking half (Sanneh anyone?). Although I don't watch as many games as Arena (my wife already is at her limit), I do know that I've seen some players in MLS who have the "potential" to be as good or better than some of the under-performers. When 2 of the biggest underperformers are ex DCU guys, all sorts of flags and bells and sirens start going off in my head about the coach! ?!?! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Wagenhalz on 04 Sep 2001 10:02 PM: Sorry I screwed up my previous post. But how nice it would've been to have Maissonneuve on the ball instead of Sanneh in the final 3rd. Why did Bruce send him home? Because he still isn't 100%?? Meanwhile, he scores another goal from his midfield position that same day against the Revs & helps the Crew cruise to a 4-1 win. He's now scored more points this year than in any of the previous years, which earned him 2 STARTS in the last WC. But somehow he's still not good enough to contributre now to the USMNT. All I know is that he offers far more offensive capabilities as a D-mid than Sanneh the Stiff does. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 04 Sep 2001 10:02 PM: quote: Originally posted by ctruppi Also, I'll bet that we can bring in 100 highly experienced international coaches and many of them would not choose to play some of the players I'm talking about! Would I be right in my armchair asessment then, or do i always have the right (as a fan, even if only a foreign one) to call a spade a spade without many posters here falling back on their patended, knee-jerk response: of you know better than someone who has won championships at all those levels that you denigrate and does coach the National Team?!?! Yes, by all means, the record of a man's accomplishments is not nearly as important as the perceptions of those on the sidelines. And you, of course, as (I'm assuming) a naturalized American, have the right to your opinion and to express it. But I also have the right to call you on it and say it's bollocks. And I wasn't trying to be a prick to you in the post you quoted...you left yourself wide open, that's why I tapped it in and added the It's Juan Luis Guerra I was trying to be a prick to. But he deserved it.
Posted by eurojack on 04 Sep 2001 10:03 PM: every US touch is a two-touch Here's a question that a foreign friend of mine had during the game: "Why is it that every time a US player receives the ball he needs two touches?" And believe me, some of those two touches (I can remember Armas on a couple) consisted of the first touch (what is supposed to be the trap) going from the ground then up into the air then bac to the ground before being settled. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Juan Luis Guerra on 04 Sep 2001 10:05 PM: kenntomasch, who are you to tell me to learn English????. Who do you think you are? God? Whenever I write for bigsoccer 97% of the time, I don't check the spelling or even the sentence structure or grammar. This is something I do very fast and sometimes without thinking too much in what I write. It's a very informal. Its not a college project or a thesis on Bruce Arena and MLS. Believe me, I'm 3 classes away from obtaining my master degree in History from the University of California and my "spelling and grammar" are above average. I' ve never recorded a teacher giving back a paper due to severe grammatical and spelling errors. Watch your language and be modest and humble. Being arrogant is perhaps worst personal quality one can acquire. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 04 Sep 2001 10:13 PM: quote: Originally posted by Juan Luis Guerra kenntomasch, who are you to tell me to learn English????. Who do you think you are? God? Whenever I write for bigsoccer 97% of the time, I don't check the spelling or even the sentence structure or grammar. This is something I do very fast and sometimes without thinking too much in what I write. It's a very informal. Its not a college project or a thesis on Bruce Arena and MLS. Believe me, I'm 3 classes away from obtaining my master degree in History from the University of California and my "spelling and grammar" are above average. I' ve never recorded a teacher giving back a paper due to severe grammatical and spelling errors. Watch your language and be modest and humble. Being arrogant is perhaps worst personal quality one can acquire. My apologies for that. But you leave yourself open when you talk about my "stupidity". That doesn't change the fact that your rant doesn't match the facts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by CM on 04 Sep 2001 10:54 PM: What everyone is forgeting is this Honduras team beat Brazil just last month. And made it to the semi-finals in the south american cup. We played them at a time when they belived they could beat anyone in the world let alone an average US side. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Captain10 on 05 Sep 2001 03:01 AM: quote: Originally posted by Wagenhalz But how nice it would've been to have Maissonneuve on the ball instead of Sanneh in the final 3rd. Why did Bruce send him home? Because he still isn't 100%?? Meanwhile, he scores another goal from his midfield position that same day against the Revs & helps the Crew cruise to a 4-1 win. He's now scored more points this year than in any of the previous years, which earned him 2 STARTS in the last WC. But somehow he's still not good enough to contributre now to the USMNT. All I know is that he offers far more offensive capabilities as a D-mid than Sanneh the Stiff does. I agree. Why would Arena retain Sanneh and Williams on the team and send an in-form Maisonneuve back to his club? Ridiculous. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Fah Que on 05 Sep 2001 02:25 PM: Let me tell you something else. One difference between Arena and Sampson is Sampson chooses the best squad at all time and not hestitate to drop someone he didn't like. That is obvious with whiner for life for example. Arena chooses what he thinks is the best squad two years ago and sticks with those players. Arena already has his mind made up what his A team is gonna be while ignoring the change of guard and emerging players in US soccer. Okay ignoring is not entirely fair but remember if McBride and Reyna didn't get injuried, Wolff and Mathis would have a hard time getting into the lineup. News players are going to have a hard time getting into the lineup period. Remember Sampson has the guts to use new players like Regis and Heijuk and the move paid dividend. Both played very well in WC98. He dropped Agoos because he didnt play well. Bruce knows who the young players are but didn't have the guts to use them. The old players are not that much better than emerging young players in MLS. How can he not play Lagos in 433. The best wing forward in the league. It takes Bruce forever to drop Lewis. He still hasn't replaced Sanneh. Sanneh and Armas are hardly the best midfield duo in US soccer anymore. Not even close. Pablo, Mulrooney, and Hernandez are emerging young players in the league. All three are more complete player than Sanneh and Armas. It is said when Bruce decided to drop Regis, he didn't have anybody in mind. Chris Henderson for Regis? What a joke. Bruce didn't bring anyone else in camp so didn't have anyone else in mind. Agoos for Regis is going to be the same. Agoos doesn't have the speed to play wide. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 05 Sep 2001 04:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by Fah Que Let me tell you something else. One difference between Arena and Sampson is Sampson chooses the best squad at all time and not hestitate to drop someone he didn't like. Or you could say Sampson was constantly screwing around with the lineup and they could never get continuity. Do you think players need to play together in soccer to be really effective as a team, or not? quote: Arena already has his mind made up what his A team is gonna be while ignoring the change of guard and emerging players in US soccer. Yes, like those guys named Chris Albright, Chris Armas, Imad Baba, DaMarcus Beasley, CJ Brown, Steve Cherundolo, Bobby Convey, Landon Donovan, Joe Franchino, Kevin Hartman, Chris Klein, Clint Mathis, Chad McCarty, Ben Olsen, Tom Presthus, Peter Vagenas, Sasha Victorine, Billy Walsh, Brian West, Josh Wolff and Zach Thornton, all of whom got their first cap under Arena. Not to mention 22-year old Carlos Bocanegra, who was called into camp, but has been hampered by an injury most of the year. quote: Okay ignoring is not entirely fair but remember if McBride and Reyna didn't get injuried, Wolff and Mathis would have a hard time getting into the lineup. Ignoring is not only not entirely fair, it's inaccurate. Again, back to Arena's quote: "In summer of 2000 we made a decision to slowly transition Clint Mathis and Josh Wolff into our team." They knew Wolff and Mathis were good players and I have no doubt they would have gotten on the field eventually. quote: News players are going to have a hard time getting into the lineup period. First off, this is qualifications for the World Cup, this isn't the Nike Cup or some such bollocks. You don't throw kids out there because you think they might do well against much older guys who are also trying to qualify for the World Cup. quote: Remember Sampson has the guts to use new players like Regis and Heijuk and the move paid dividend. Both played very well in WC98. And Hejduk hasn't been heard from since, because he's really not that good. Regis is an anomoly that I can't figure out, because he's really not that good, either. But Sampson's "guts" were displayed when the vast majority of the guys who received their first cap under him did so in two meaningless friendlies far away from anyone's radar screen---guys like Mac Cozier, Tayt Ianni and Paul Holocher against Peru, that was Sampson's idea of "guts". quote: How can he not play Lagos in 433. The best wing forward in the league. The only thing Manny Lagos has proven is that he's 30 years old and just now a decent player who can stay healthy. Either you want Arena to play the emerging young stars or mediocrities who "burst on the scene" at the age of 30, you can't have it both ways. quote: Sanneh and Armas are hardly the best midfield duo in US soccer anymore. Not even close. Pablo, Mulrooney, and Hernandez are emerging young players in the league. Mastroeni did not acquire US citizenship until this year, and promptly got his first cap against Ecuador in June. He's a little more valuable starting for the Fusion than he would be trying to work his way into the Nats lineup, so he'll have to wait his turn. But I think Arena knows who he is. He's just now 25 years old. Hernandez is solid but unspectacular and is also just 25. Mulrooney has been called into camp and is not even 25 yet. quote: All three are more complete player than Sanneh and Armas. You're joking, right? Chris Armas is a terrific player. Three straight years in MLS' Best XI, US Soccer's Athlete of the Year in 2000? That's not good enough for you? Hernandez and Mulrooney are not better players than Chris Armas, not by a long shot. The US was unbeaten in nine straight qualifying games before dropping the last two. All of a sudden it's let's hang Arena? Please. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Juan Luis Guerra on 05 Sep 2001 05:01 PM: kenntomasch, don't get me wrong, but I'm beginning to suspect that you either are a DC United fan or you are Arena himself. Tell us the truth. please. I also noticed that you are from Illinois, meaning/guessing you are a Chicago Fire fan. At the same time you don't support Bob Bradley for USNT coach. Maybe you are not from Illinois, but Washington, DC. I know you know about soccer, I spotted that right away, But I don't understand how can you support Arena's in the USNT. Arena, was a good coach in MLS, not necessarily as an USNT coach. You and I know that Arena was really never tested as a coach in the international level. I got away with 3 back to back wins, but just "got away," thanks to his MLS friends, Josh and Clint. Example, against Mexico, Josh scored and set another goal, while Clint assisted Josh in the first one. Against Honduras, Clint scored that golden goal with a free kick. Against Costa Rica, Josh scored that only goal, again assisted by Mathis. Again Jamaica, not goals, neither Clint or Josh played. I hope you now understand how important MLS is for the USNT. Arena suckssss big time, but you don't want to admit it with all my respect amigo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by dub77 on 05 Sep 2001 05:27 PM: Hey why don't you all go play CM and see if you can coach the US to the world cup. Then maybe you can all talk as if you know what it's like to coach the national team. N8 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 05 Sep 2001 05:49 PM: quote: Originally posted by Juan Luis Guerra kenntomasch, don't get me wrong, but I'm beginning to suspect that you either are a DC United fan or you are Arena himself. Tell us the truth. please. I've been telling the truth --- I seem to be the only person here who is interested in the truth. People say Bruce Arena doesn't believe in MLS --- yet 65% of the players Arena has called in for training and matches in 2001 have been MLS players. People say he sticks with the same old players --- yet at least 22 young players have gotten their first caps under Arena. And you obviously haven't been around long enough to know that I am neither a DC United fan nor am I Bruce Arena. Since when does parrying misplaced diatribes with facts make one a misguided apologist with an agenda? I have no agenda in this regard except the truth. quote: I also noticed that you are from Illinois, meaning/guessing you are a Chicago Fire fan. I moved here from Indiana. What would you guess from that? I grew up in Florida, what would you guess from that? For the record, Tampa Bay is my team. I have acquaintances in the Chicago front office and on the team because I used to work in the A-League. Now that I've moved to the Chicago area, I follow the Fire and support their efforts, except when they play the Mutiny. I hope they do well. Your point is.....???? quote: At the same time you don't support Bob Bradley for USNT coach. If there was a need for a new National Team coach, I would support Bob Bradley's candidacy wholeheartedly. As would Bruce Arena, I would imagine. But there is currently no opening for the US National Team Coach, nor do I feel there is a need for one. Is there something wrong with not calling for a palace coup? quote: Maybe you are not from Illinois, but Washington, DC. Nope. I've visited there a few times. I like the Virginia suburbs. quote: I know you know about soccer, I spotted that right away, But I don't understand how can you support Arena's in the USNT. Because I know about soccer. Or, maybe because the US is 21-10-11 under Arena (.631), when they were 26-22-14 (.532) under Sampson. Is my National Team better now than it was in July 1998? No question. So I don't see a need to change coaches like we're some Third World Knee-Jerk Reaction country just because we've lost two in a row (with Reyna out of the lineup). quote: Arena, was a good coach in MLS, not necessarily as an USNT coach. He is a good coach. He didn't just win in MLS, he won two championships and played for a third. He won at the college level. He can coach. And his USNT record is, ummmm, pretty good. quote: You and I know that Arena was really never tested as a coach in the international level. You'd better tell Vasco de Gama that. And Mexico. And Argentina. And Costa Rica. And Germany. Twice. quote: I got away with 3 back to back wins, but just "got away," thanks to his MLS friends, Josh and Clint. This is a team that was dead last in 1998 at the World Cup, a worldwide laughingstock as recently as ten years ago, and now we're supposed to blow everybody out? Suddenly "just getting away" isn't good enough for us? Yeah, what's he doing playing his MLS "friends"? Everybody knows Josh and Clint can't play. And he wouldn't believe in them even if they could, because he doesn't believe in MLS. quote: Example, against Mexico, Josh scored and set another goal, while Clint assisted Josh in the first one. Against Honduras, Clint scored that golden goal with a free kick. Against Costa Rica, Josh scored that only goal, again assisted by Mathis. Again Jamaica, not goals, neither Clint or Josh played. And that would be....because...they....were...injured? They didn't play against Trinidad (two goals). They didn't play against Honduras (two goals, should have been three). quote: I hope you now understand how important MLS is for the USNT. Hey, now that you mention it....yeah, I do understand it now! I never noticed it before! You'd have to be a frigging idiot not to realize that MLS has helped speed the development of American players. But I've understood that for a while, my friend. You didn't have to point that one out to me. quote: Arena suckssss big time, but you don't want to admit it with all my respect amigo Yes, yes, yes, he suckssss. The record speaks for itself. And I respect that. But, again, it's good to know that the world is safe because we have an unlimited supply of people right here on Bigsoccer who are more qualified to direct our little ol' national team than Bruce Arena is. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Futsal Fred on 05 Sep 2001 05:56 PM: Um, Kenn? None of my business, of course, but...why are you arguing with this guy? Breaking in a new keyboard? It reminds of of why it is they say you should never try to teach a pig to fly: It accomplishes nothing, and frustrates the hell out of the pig.
Posted by kenntomasch on 05 Sep 2001 06:06 PM: I don't know. I'm in one of those moods. When I get called out, I feel compelled to respond. I feel like y'all would be disappointed if I didn't. Down south we say "You don't get in a fight with a pig --- y'all both get muddy and the pig likes it." There haven't exactly been a ton of people rushing to back me up, so either I'm holding my own or I'm so completely off base that no one wants to be associated with me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by heybeerman on 05 Sep 2001 06:07 PM: Well I personally would like to thank Kenn for his rebuttal. Too many knee jerk reactions and here is a voice of reason. Also, having not followed events as close as you guys over the last two coaches, I rally appreciate the information. Thanks Kenn. Go US. I would love to escape with some points tonight. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by monster on 05 Sep 2001 07:28 PM: Re: quote: Originally posted by kenntomasch I don't know. I'm in one of those moods. When I get called out, I feel compelled to respond. I feel like y'all would be disappointed if I didn't. Down south we say "You don't get in a fight with a pig --- y'all both get muddy and the pig likes it." There haven't exactly been a ton of people rushing to back me up, so either I'm holding my own or I'm so completely off base that no one wants to be associated with me. I'm with ya, Kenn. I've just come to realize that people who sit at their computer know much more than the coaches who actually run the practices, do the scouting, have the one-on-one meetings, etc. with the players. He has made some decisions I don't agree with, but with the news blackout, it's really hard to know exactly why. And he has made it very clear that how people perform in camp is huge in the decision-making process. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Juan Luis Guerra on 05 Sep 2001 09:44 PM: quote: Originally posted by Futsal Fred Um, Kenn? None of my business, of course, but...why are you arguing with this guy? Breaking in a new keyboard? It reminds of of why it is they say you should never try to teach a pig to fly: It accomplishes nothing, and frustrates the hell out of the pig. Futsal Fred, you said it "It's none of your business". GET A LIFE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by rscaramelo on 05 Sep 2001 11:27 PM: Why Williams, Vanney, Sanneh and Kirovski?????? Why???? Where was Maissonneuve, Mastroeni, Thorrington and Donovan? Ugh.... RC -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by ne plus ultra on 05 Sep 2001 11:50 PM: Once again, an American coach thinks the sport is college basketball. Don't think that **********ing hard. This is soccer. Pick your best players and let them play. What's Kenn and others don't understand in comparing him to Sampson is that he really is Sampson, and Bora. They all share three extremely unfortunate attributes. The first two are interrelated: they lack faith in their players and exaggerate the importance of game-time coaching, which leads to such fiascos as - tonight's 7-0-3 lineup - the Reyna Sun-God theory, where all offense must revolve around Claudio, to the detriment of, at various times, Harkes, Cobi, and anyone else who might ever have been creative in our midfield. - the emasculation of a decade of attacking players by coaches who felt Americans couldn't score. But the central flaw is that all three favor international and Euro league experience over quality and youth in a nation where for the last two decades, the young players every three years are significantly better than their elders. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Tejas on 05 Sep 2001 11:56 PM: Kenn, Thanks for saving me the time an energy of putting together such a well thoughtout reply to this nonsense. Cheers, T -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by SumterSoccer23 on 05 Sep 2001 11:57 PM: OK EVERYONE CALM DOWN FOR A SECOND We have now lost 3 matches and are now in 4th place with 2 games to play. Lets all settle down and realize just how stupid we sound. This is why countries laugh at us. Because we dont know how to support people when things are going wrong. CR has not been to the Cup since '90 but their fans have always been passionate and supportive. Lets analyze the losing streak: 1. Mathis, Wolff, Reyna, McBride, Razov, Olsen, JOB are all hurt. That is seven of our most quality attacking players besides Stewart. Donovan is not there no matter how much you think he is. I do think he could be a very vaulable sub tho. 2. We have had to go to Mexico and CR, arguably the two hardest places to play in the Region. A total of 5 qualifiers lost between the two ever. We got outplayed by a very strong Honduran team who has not lost on the road. 3. The hardest part of our schedule is behind us. we now have Jamaica at home, who are struggling as of right now just as we are. Jamaica are all but done. Then we go to T&T who are finished and probably will not bring back Stern John or Dwight Yorke which makes our job easier. we also have a month to get some of our guys healthy such as Razov, JOB and Reyna. Lets look at the proposed solutions: 1. Fire Arena and replace with who? MLS coaches wont have the experience. isnt that what you are saying is wrong with Arena? A foriegn coach will not accept the team with 2 matches and needing the win. Arena stays in place, wins the next to matches and shuts up all you dumb a$$es. 2. Bring in more MLS players. Are you guys in fantasy land or dont understand the game. MLS is a new league (in world terms) that is just now gaining alittle credibility from around the world. Just because a guy plays good in mls does not translate into International success. All the guys you are naming have little to no international experience at any level. I do understand that some players fall through the cracks but not that many. Arena has called a hand full in....Mais, Mastroeni, Vanney, Petke, Preki, Lagos, the list goes on and on. Obviously these guys dont get the job done in training. Do you think a foreign coach is going to come in and play all these little known guys from MLS if he does not respect the league. I doubt it. 3. Let the young guys play. This again is absurd. Donovan is the only one close to being ready to play at this level. Convey has been hurt and just does not have the tools yet. He is definitely the future but cannot get it done. Did you see the way #5 from honduras manhandled donavan during that match. Donovan did nothing against him. Plus without some of the veterans, these players would not get service as we saw tonight with donovan. The reason Bruce plays these so called "pets" is b/c they have the experience of pressure games such as the ones we have been facing. This is not a time to start bashing the National team but rather get behind them and support them. This is why soccer is such a great game. the intensity, passion that surrounds the game. Stop be fair weather fans and stop bashing this team and Arena. We control our own fate. 2 wins and we are in. And if we dont qualify, its not the end of the world. it would be b/c we had some bad breaks and bad bounces of the ball. teams all around the world fail to qualify. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Tejas on 06 Sep 2001 12:05 AM: quote: Originally posted by ne plus ultra What's Kenn and others don't understand in comparing him to Sampson is that he really is Sampson, and Bora. They all share three extremely unfortunate attributes. You left out perhaps the biggest attribute. The players that they have had to work with. Somewhere along the way we decided that we were a country full of spectacular talent, and all that we needed was the right coach to come along and pickout all of the gems that everyone else had missed and then throw them together under this blessed blueprint. Put together the top five coaches in the world, and under each one of them I'll wager that we are only two games better with them than with our best domestic coaches. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by ne plus ultra on 06 Sep 2001 12:06 AM: Or, to put it more succinctly, play a 7-0-3 with defenders who don't have ball skills, and how could you not give up 20 first half shots, including half a dozen frightening chances. Give up half a dozen frightening chances, and how do you not eventually give up a goal or concede a penalty. Concede a penalty, and how can you come back, when you've got no one with ball skills on the field. Sic Semper Arena -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 06 Sep 2001 12:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by ne plus ultra But the central flaw is that all three favor international and Euro league experience over quality and youth in a nation where for the last two decades, the young players every three years are significantly better than their elders. Really? Is that why 65% of Arena's call-ins in 2001 have been MLS players? Is that why at least 23 young players have gotten their first cap under Arena in his (now) 43 games as the Nats' coach, while Sampson only gave first caps to 23 players in his 62 games at the helm (and only Preki, Pope, Maisonneuve, and Sanneh have been halfway useful out of those 23), and nearly half of those came in two useless matches (8/30/96 against El Salvador - 4 guys and 10/16/96 at Peru - 7 guys)? Sampson rode the guys he inherited, for the most part. His most-capped players were Jones (54), Burns (53), Lalas (46), Wynalda (44), Reyna (43), Agoos (42), Harkes (38), Dooley (36) and Moore (35) --- and out of that group, only Burns and Reyna got significantly upgraded playing time under Sampson than they had prior to him. Arena has constantly brought young players in to contribute, and has consistently given MLS players not only their first caps, but meaningful caps as well. You may not like Reyna and Stewart, but you know what? They're good players. You want to tell me you wouldn't be putting them out there? I really don't want to have another long, involved thing with you, ne plus ulta, with all due respect. But here's the bottom line: At this point in the hex in 1997, Sampson was 2-1-5 with 11 points with two winnable games ahead. Arena is 4-3-1 with 13 points and two winnable games ahead. Nobody ever said this wasn't going to be semi-tough. You want to cop out now, you give up the right to be on the bandwagon next June. Everybody's an expert. Once again. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by ne plus ultra on 06 Sep 2001 12:12 AM: quote: Originally posted by Tejas You left out perhaps the biggest attribute. The players that they have had to work with. We're losing to teams with players playing in semi-pro leagues. dude. You're clueless. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by ne plus ultra on 06 Sep 2001 12:20 AM: Kenn, You say you don't want to get into involved discussions, but you can never seem to hold yourself under 10,000 words. The minutes wasted on Agoos, Sanneh, Regis, Cherundolo and Kirovski add up to more than all the 15 minute stints he's given to young MLS guys. They're useless, and all your silly stats don't change that. I wouldn't have given them the minutes. That's a lot of time we could have used developing good players. The scary thing is that Agoos is going to be ANOTHER year older if we actually make the WC, and yet you know that Bruce can't bear to let him go. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 06 Sep 2001 12:27 AM: ne: 1. the last post was 286 words long, so Word tells me; 2. i guess any stat that proves you to be off base is "silly"; and 3. Agoos is going to be a year older next year whether the US qualifies or not. Funny how that works.
Posted by Tejas on 06 Sep 2001 12:46 AM: quote: Originally posted by ne plus ultra We're losing to teams with players playing in semi-pro leagues. dude. You're clueless. Dude, 65% of the players on our team play for what a lot of other nations would consider to be a semi-pro league. -The Dude. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Defender on 06 Sep 2001 12:50 AM: It is ridiculous to call for the firing of Bruce Arena. He has brought out better players because of the competitive atmosphere he has created. Only players regularly playing first team football (excluding ELewis & JMMoore), get to play. This makes the players better and more competitive. It is arguable that MLS players get more preference because they are currently in season and getting more playing time than their European counterparts. Our current perspective is warped. Before our current campaign, the US has always been frantic to qualify. It came down to the last games. Our initial run during this last phase was abnormal. Our record was dominant, but our play was not. We had a few games that could have swung either way. They just happened to swing our way. We were set to tie Honduras at Honduras, until the last minute heroics by Mathis. Speaking of that freekick, it was eerily similar to the one Ronaldinho made against the US several months earlier, in the US-Brazil friendly that Mathis scored in. We've gotten some good breaks. The home Mexico was a great game. It helped just a tad that the packed stadium of 23,000+ was completely pro-American, and the 'chilly' weather. The Honduras game at RFK was horrible because there seemed to be more Honduran fans than US fans. Garbage and other junk was thrown at OUR players, in the dam US! We can question some individual player selections. Regis sticks out the most. He seemed to be more orientated towards attacking than defending players. In regards to the last two games, our lacking offense has added pressure to the defense. With our top strikers/midfielders threatening opposing teams goals, pressure on the US defense was far less. MLS has given the US team some depth, however the last games have showed how far that depth goes. MLS is a good league, but a young one. It won't be until the 2006 WC, or for sure the 2010 WC until our depth is solidified and we can enter qualifying and keep a commanding presence. Arena has plenty of experience at many different levels. He went to Europe and studied the game, coaching and organization of football under some of the greatest institutions. Firing Arena is ridiculous. Arena is building the program and bringing it to a higher level than ever before. I support Arena fully. Through thick and thin. Of course I question some of his decisions, but I think that Arena is the best option for now and the near future. He will have a positive lasting impact on the program. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by markinho on 06 Sep 2001 12:56 AM: No matter what happens, the US has its back against the wall for the final two games. If President Bush can spin the sagging US economy by pointing out that it puts a "straightjacket" on wasteful government spending, then it's only fitting that the USMNT's dismal, uninspired performances in CONCACAF qualifying may lead us to assume they'll play attractive, attacking soccer with positive results. The Jamaicans and T/T crew are not known for inspired soccer when they're clearly on the losing end. When motivated they'll play like devils, but otherwise, zzzzz. Sadly, I feel some mixed emotions. If the US picks up two lackluster wins against these bottom-feeder opponents and qualifies, will you feel good about the USMNT's ability to not embarrass themselves in Japan/Korea? I won't. markinhno -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 06 Sep 2001 02:05 AM: quote: Originally posted by ne plus ultra The minutes wasted on Agoos, Sanneh, Regis, Cherundolo and Kirovski add up to more than all the 15 minute stints he's given to young MLS guys. They're useless, and all your silly stats don't change that. I wouldn't have given them the minutes. That's a lot of time we could have used developing good players. This one you're right on, in the interests of fairness. Agoos, Sanneh, Regis, Cherundolo and Kirovski have combined for 3224 minutes this year. The young MLS guys (Mathis, Donovan, Wolff, Beasley, Albright, Petke, Olsen, Convey, Klein, and Mastroeni, all 25 and younger) have combined for 1791 (if you include O'Brien and Thorrington, who are not MLS players, but still young ones, the total is 1923). But don't you think had they not been hurt, Mathis, Wolff, Olsen and Convey would have gotten enough minutes to at least make it a fair fight? Wolff and Mathis have each missed 6 games now (a potential 1080 minutes), and Convey the last two (though he wouldn't have seen significant minutes, most likely). I think they would have made it close. Of course, Arena should have been able to prevent those injuries. Just so you have them, here are the minutes played leaders for the Nats this season, and all-time under Arena: 2001 *=MLS guy %=former MLS guy Armas,Chris 990* Agoos,Jeff 900* Llamosa,Carlos 731* Stewart,Earnie 720 Sanneh,Tony 710% Pope,Eddie 630* Regis,David 618 Cherundolo,Steve 588 Jones,Cobi 453* Friedel,Brad 450% Mathis,Clint 439* Kirovski,Jovan 408 Reyna,Claudio 402 Donovan,Landon 387* Keller,Kasey 360 Moore,Joe-Max 339% Wolff,Josh 329* Vanney,Greg 271* Meola,Tony 270* Razov,Ante 255* McBride,Brian 183* Beasley,DaMarcus 162* Williams,Richie 135* Albright,Chris 133* O'Brien,John 113 Lewis,Eddie 100% Berhalter,Gregg 92 Fraser,Robin 90* Petke,Mike 90* Olsen,Ben 85* Convey,Bobby 64* Hejduk,Frankie 61% Klein,Chris 57* Mastroeni,Pablo 45* Radisavlevic, Preki 42* Enochs,Joe 28 Zavagnin,Kerry 20* Thorrington,John 19 Henderson, Chris 12* Under Arena Armas, Chris 2805 Agoos, Jeff 2356 Jones, Cobi 2248 Lewis, Eddie 2008 Kirovski,Jovan 1943 McBride, Brian 1894 Llamosa, Carlos 1873 Reyna,Claudio 1762 Stewart, Earnie 1699 Sanneh,Tony 1643 Regis,David 1518 Pope, Eddie 1445 Keller,Kasey 1401 Friedel,Brad 1245 Moore, Joe-Max 1172 Fraser,Robin 1170 Berhalter,Gregg 1113 Williams, Richie 1001 Brown, CJ 984 Hejduk,Frankie 971 Olsen, Ben 954 Razov,Ante 886 Meola,Tony 827 Vanney,Greg 825 Mathis, Clint 723 Cherundolo,Steve 678 Wolff,Josh 483 O'Brien,John 462 Donovan,Landon 445 Wynalda,Eric 376 Deering,Chad 369 Thornton, Zach 343 Harkes,John 288 Albright,Chris 272 Balboa,Marcelo 270 Kreis,Jason 256 Klein,Chris 237 Lassiter, Roy 207 Beasley,DaMarcus 162 McKeon,Matt 147 Ramos,Tab 139 Bravo,Paul 136 Zavagnin,Kerry 110 Cullen,Leo 94 Dooley,Thomas 90 Petke,Mike 90 Gutierrez,Henry 78 Ralston,Steve 67 Convey,Bobby 65 Hartman,Kevin 45 Mastroeni,Pablo 45 Presthus,Tom 45 Henderson, Chris 44 Radisavlevic, Preki 42 Enochs,Joe 28 McCarty,Chad 22 Chung, Mark 21 Thorrington,John 19 Baba,Imad 15 Franchino,Joe 13 Vagenas,Pete 4 West,Brian 2 Victorine,Sasha 1 Walsh,Billy 1 (that's through tonight...just a clip and save for ya) Oh, and everybody saying "Regis shouldn't be playing" and "Cobi shouldn't be coming off the bench" --- Regis didn't move off the bench tonight and Cobi played 90 minutes. How smart are you now? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Vicar on 06 Sep 2001 02:17 AM: Jesus, Buddha, Ganesh, and assorted other deities could be the braintrust of this team, and we wouldn't be much better. Because we suck. We don't have very many good players. Arena or no Arena, that's not going to change for a very long time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by asdf on 06 Sep 2001 02:21 AM: ou simply can't fire every coach after a loss in WC qualifying.. We are not the United Arab Emirates... ------------ Italy, Germany, Brazil, England, Argentina and France (that' every WC winner for 1/2 a century) would fire their coach after 3 abysmal WCQ losses. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by csh2000 on 06 Sep 2001 03:19 AM: quote: Originally posted by Fah Que What USSF should do is to host a mendatory press conference right after the match so soccer journalist can iterrogate Bruce. That is what every country does except US. That way a lot of nonsense can be stopped. Just because it's not televised doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. U.S. Soccer holds a press conference after every game - why do you think just about every report on the game has the same quotes? Bruce isn't going to let the media determine what he does with his team. For the mostpart, members of the U.S. Soccer reporting pool are not qualified to do his job and Bruce would be a fool to let them bully him around. He answers to Dan Flynn and Bob Contiguglia and they both take the approach that it's Bruce's job and that he's more qualified than they are to do it. If there were a better option available to fill the position, they'd make the change, but right now, there's simply no one who knows the player pool and the opposition like Bruce does. While his lineup on Wednesday night was a joke, I can't really say they're wrong to play it out with him. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by ne plus ultra on 06 Sep 2001 04:24 AM: Henderson & Radosavljevic would be two players I'd have given a longer look to. They're the common denominator between the dominant teams of last year and this year in MLS. I think you could play Henderson more profitably than Sanneh in the role he has taken - a wing whose defensive responsibilities grow and ebb from game to game. Both can hold the ball, and they know each other. They might have been something to build on. In MLS, you wouldn't want to waste Armas at the back, but at the international level, I think you might try him there, freeing up a midfield spot for someone more creative. We don't have an embarrassment of good backs, despite what Bruce seems to think. Instead, we have an abundance of passable midfielders, all fired in the same kiln. We need to get more of them on the field. My team might look like this: Friedel Pope Armas Llamosa Henderson Preki Reyna Mathis Stewart Wolff Jones or, given the spate of injuries Friedel Pope Armas Llamosa Henderson Preki Stewart (Kovalenko) Donovan Jones Razov That extra midfield spot does become a dilemma, not because there's nobody I like, but because nobody stands out - since none of them have really been tested. Chung and Lagos come to mind, but Kovalenko's balls-out play would add some of the things lacking from this team since Mathis went down. I hate to admit it, but I appreciated some of the things Williams did tonight, though he did boot the opening kickoff into the far corner and then give a dangerous free kick from 23 yards moments later, just as everyone predicted he would. He was trying creative balls that were a little bit beyond his level. And he was involved in a way few others were. The best players make the most mistakes, Jerry Yeagley always said, because they're trying the most. Maybe he'll grow into a spot. At some point, I thought to myself that if we did replace Arena (not that I think it's timely) we'd likely look to Bradley, who would bring us Jesse Marsch, the Fire/Princeton version of Richie Williams. Notice that mainstays like Kirovski, JMM aren't on either of my teams. Forwards who don't score don't play. I withhold the right to start McBride, but mostly just to make Ante angry, because Ante only plays when he's pushed. I likewise leave out Sanneh, Regis, Agoos. Athletic defenders who tackle well, stay on their feet and remain goalside, but utterly lack ball skill and vision were stopgaps when we were a poor team with few aspirations. We're better than that now, and we require defenders who can think with the ball for a moment before blasting it. Too many times, good tackles and interceptions go for nothing because our defenders immediately give the ball right back, usually inside our own half. Sanneh could redeem himself if he played well as a sub.
Posted by LoveFifa on 06 Sep 2001 06:10 AM: Amazing what a few injuries will do. I have to admit I got a little sick when I saw the lineup last night. I know the Bruce knows more about soccer than me, but it just didn't seem to be the case last night. Question? How many of you think that Mathis, Wolfe, and Renya are sitting at home saying "What the "F" are you doing Bruce?!" My honest feeling. I don't think we will be playing in next years World Cup. But I also don't think that the US soccer will suffer all that much. Honestly, how much attention do any of think we will garner from being there. I think that if we don't go, it will be good for MLS. The fans at home will have more opportunity to throw all of thier focus towards the league. And this debacle will force US soccer to evaluate its entire program. Don't feel too bad. I heard Holland isn't doing that good either. Don't mistake my apathy. I am extremely hurt right now. I would love nothing more than to have our team in the WC. But I don't want another 98 scenario. The next time we go, I want us kicking the door in letting the world know that they will have thier hands full containg us. Until that day come, I will be just as happy with only having the MLS to entertain me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by codman on 06 Sep 2001 07:46 AM: i have never been one to bash bruce. i always gave him the benefit of the doubt, considering all of the injuries and so forth. But I put the sole blame for this loss DIRECTLY on his shoulders. how can a team be expected to get a result out of a game where they are taken out of it by its own coach before the game even starts. Who the F*#k has ever heard of a 5-3-2 (which looked more like a 7-0-3 most of the night)? The problem with the bunker down philosophy is that what happens when your defense slips up that one time and give up the goal (i.e. the PK) Now, how do you possibly get yourself back in the game? Its simple...you don't. i am tired of this American mentality of coaches who think they have to outcoach the other team, and they stray away from what got the team there in the first place. granted there are injuries but there are people that can fill in for those injuries. as a previous poster said, put your best 11 out there and let them f*#king play!!! and play your game...don't radically change strategies because you are afraid of your opponent. Show some damn balls and take it to them, and let the chips fall where they may. But if you say we need a point so we are going to pack it in 40 yrds from our box and in and you let the other teams fire away at you, something is always going to happen. This is the final round of World Cup qualifying, these are highly skilled international players, some of whom play in the best leagues in the world. You think they aren't going to get around your defense at least once?!? And then your stuck, because your coach read in the How to Coach Soccer handbook that when losing you can only bring on your quick and dangerous players no earlier than the 60th minute. the problem with this is that it is too late in the game at which point the opposing team will be doing some bunkering down of its own, and therefore rendering your new fresh attacking subs useless. I could go on and on about who he should have started and what could have been done differently, but it makes no difference at this point. All I can say is at least i have England to root for at the World Cup, cause the US IS NOT GOING TO QUALIFY! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Futsal Fred on 06 Sep 2001 09:26 AM: Well, I've avoided, by and large, weighing in here, and I really have no desire to get caught up in an "Oh yeah? Well, YOU'RE a poopie head" kind of a deal. Nonetheless; There are not a lot of countries, a lot of teams, where if the top couple guys go down with injury, they have the horses to cover it. Indeed, I thought it was a mark of great progress on our part earlier this year when McBride went down and Arena could simply reach down the bench and seamlessly insert a Mathis, or when he didn't have Olsen he could play Wolff. It clearly showed we were coming, if not of age then certainly of promise. But really very few teams can sustain injuries to the first AND second line players and go reach out for THRID quality replacement. Even Argentina or England would have to gulp hard over that one. And this is the area where you have controversy, and when the coach takes heat. Reyna goes down, plug in JOB. JOB goes down, you really have no clear cut answer. Personally, I would have liked to see Mais take a whack at it (and Kenn - Sampson capped Mais first, not Arena). But it's felt that he's still not 100 %. (This is a guy who had four operations to replace his ankle tendons with some from a cadaver after the initial operation resulted in an infection which eroded and destroyed ALL tendons in that ankle. The Surgeon told him that the goal was to make him able to walk again someday without too much of a limp. Period. He was MLS player of the month in July. Next time some idiot wants to prattle on about Dayak and the Comeback Player of the Year Award, try telling him THAT) And so it is for each of his choices - Sanneh? Hey, have you gotten a look at Wanchope, or seen him play? Big, bull-strong, athletic. Cherundolo would be eaten, and Pablo's speed would be of little consequence. Wanchope doesn't want to race you; he wants to beat you up. Of the available defenders, Sanneh was at least a partial answer. With the ball at his feet, he ain't exactly Zidane, but if there was somebody who had the WHOLE package, he'd be in there. Arena's choices boil down to which player with which PART of the package do you play? So on down the line. We have mostly "partial" players. The complete deal is called a "superstar" and we have precious few of those. One last thing: those of you who keep complaining about Friedel? AT least think of something intelligent to say, instead of simply rrepeating what Jack and/or Ty said last night about him coming off the line. FYI: Jack and Ty know NOTHING about playing between the pipes, and their opinions about the techniques involved originate in ignorance. If you think Keller is better, fine. But to say Friedel was anything short of magnificent last night, playing cork to Arena's desperation bottle, you simply don't know what you're talking about. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 06 Sep 2001 09:38 AM: quote: Originally posted by Futsal Fred (and Kenn - Sampson capped Mais first, not Arena). I don't recall saying that Arena capped Mais first (did I? I was wrong if I did)...I said he capped Mastroeni first, but Sampson capped Mais first. Arena has not capped Mais yet, mostly because Mais hasn't been available for anyone to cap much until very recently. I'll save the long version of this for another time, but the short version is: Sampson gave 23 guys their first cap in his 62 games. Four of them went on to get 10 or more caps under him (Preki 26, Pope 25, Hejduk 14, and Mais 10). Armas has given 30 guys their first caps in 2/3 as many games, including six guys who've gone on to get 10 or more caps (Armas 33, Llamosa 23, Olsen 19, Williams 17, Brown 14, Mathis 11) and Wolff most assuredly would have made it seven had he not been hurt, as he has 8 caps. Arena is always looking for guys who can play, and he looks first in MLS. This will pay off down the road, when we will have the depth to be able to handle a bunch of injuries like we have now. Right now, we don't have the depth. And not that this means anything, but I don't have any particular affection for Bruce Arena -- I've never met him, but someone I know who's very respected in soccer counts him as his worst enemy and I have heard some not-so-nice things about him from others. But that's not the point. He's done a good job with our National Team, by and large (I'm still trying to figure out the whole Richie Williams/David Regis thing myself, but he's the coach, not me), and injuries have played a big part in why we're sitting here in fourth place in the hex at this moment and not already qualified for 2002. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by ctruppi on 06 Sep 2001 10:14 AM: Re: quote: Originally posted by kenntomasch I don't recall saying that Arena capped Mais first (did I? I was wrong if I did)...I said he capped Mastroeni first, but Sampson capped Mais first. Arena has not capped Mais yet, mostly because Mais hasn't been available for anyone to cap much until very recently. I'll save the long version of this for another time, but the short version is: Sampson gave 23 guys their first cap in his 62 games. Four of them went on to get 10 or more caps under him (Preki 26, Pope 25, Hejduk 14, and Mais 10). Armas has given 30 guys their first caps in 2/3 as many games, including six guys who've gone on to get 10 or more caps (Armas 33, Llamosa 23, Olsen 19, Williams 17, Brown 14, Mathis 11) and Wolff most assuredly would have made it seven had he not been hurt, as he has 8 caps. Arena is always looking for guys who can play, and he looks first in MLS. This will pay off down the road, when we will have the depth to be able to handle a bunch of injuries like we have now. Right now, we don't have the depth. And not that this means anything, but I don't have any particular affection for Bruce Arena -- I've never met him, but someone I know who's very respected in soccer counts him as his worst enemy and I have heard some not-so-nice things about him from others. But that's not the point. He's done a good job with our National Team, by and large (I'm still trying to figure out the whole Richie Williams/David Regis thing myself, but he's the coach, not me), and injuries have played a big part in why we're sitting here in fourth place in the hex at this moment and not already qualified for 2002. Kenn, I think you're not comparing apples to apples with the number of new players capped under these coaches. Arena has a maturing, stable league which gives him many more choices at every position Sampson never had! The thing that sticks out in my mind that is a scary similarity between these two coaches is an insistence on playing players who underperform at club level. Sampson had Burns and Wegerle (who showed at MLS level that they weren't that good) and Arena has Williams and Sanneh who quite frankly suck at club level. Additionally, Bruce has Agoos who does play well at club level and vs weaker regional opponents, but is seriously lacking against any quality team (1st game vs. CR in KC was beat numerous times and should have rec'd a red card for last man intentional hand-ball after being badly beaten). When we look back at Arena's time at the helm, this inability to see players who are playing bad and take a risk with a player who is performing well at club level in a meaningful game will be the hallmarks of his reign! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by MLS propaganda on 06 Sep 2001 10:33 AM: quote: Originally posted by codman i have never been one to bash bruce. i always gave him the benefit of the doubt, considering all of the injuries and so forth. But I put the sole blame for this loss DIRECTLY on his shoulders. how can a team be expected to get a result out of a game where they are taken out of it by its own coach before the game even starts. Who the F*#k has ever heard of a 5-3-2 (which looked more like a 7-0-3 most of the night)? The problem with the bunker down philosophy is that what happens when your defense slips up that one time and give up the goal (i.e. the PK) Now, how do you possibly get yourself back in the game? Its simple...you don't. i am tired of this American mentality of coaches who think they have to outcoach the other team, and they stray away from what got the team there in the first place. granted there are injuries but there are people that can fill in for those injuries. as a previous poster said, put your best 11 out there and let them f*#king play!!! and play your game...don't radically change strategies because you are afraid of your opponent. Show some damn balls and take it to them, and let the chips fall where they may. But if you say we need a point so we are going to pack it in 40 yrds from our box and in and you let the other teams fire away at you, something is always going to happen. This is the final round of World Cup qualifying, these are highly skilled international players, some of whom play in the best leagues in the world. You think they aren't going to get around your defense at least once?!? And then your stuck, because your coach read in the How to Coach Soccer handbook that when losing you can only bring on your quick and dangerous players no earlier than the 60th minute. the problem with this is that it is too late in the game at which point the opposing team will be doing some bunkering down of its own, and therefore rendering your new fresh attacking subs useless. I could go on and on about who he should have started and what could have been done differently, but it makes no difference at this point. All I can say is at least i have England to root for at the World Cup, cause the US IS NOT GOING TO QUALIFY! Codman, I have tried to put it into good words but you did it best. I think your post is RIGHT ON! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 06 Sep 2001 11:06 AM: quote: Originally posted by ctruppi Kenn, I think you're not comparing apples to apples with the number of new players capped under these coaches. Arena has a maturing, stable league which gives him many more choices at every position Sampson never had! That is a valid point, I grant you. Arena has reaped the benefits of having a domestic Division I league, and whoever succeeds him, whenever that happens, will further reap those benefits because MLS will continue to assist in the development of American players (if it doesn't fold first, har har har). So I don't make a huge broadstroke statement with the "first caps" thing -- it's interesting to see, but the comparison is not as strong as it might be had Sampson had a Division I league for his whole tenure (though he did have it in 1996, 1997, and 1998 before his ouster...admittedly, once he got into 1997, the time to experiment with young players was pretty much gone). But I don't think it invalidates the point that, however much weight you choose to place on the Arena/Sampson "First Caps" comparison, Arena has been looking for new young talent and getting it involved in the mix, which can only help down the road. And the first place he has looked has been MLS. But even though Sampson didn't have a D1 league from which to draw players, that doesn't let him off the hook for the Brian McBride thing....I mean, McHead was the leading scorer for the US National "B" team for three straight years and was playing pretty well in the Second Division in Germany...but it was almost as if Sampson didn't even know he existed until he was the first pick overall in the 1996 MLS Draft and then he picked up the paper and said "Boy, I wish we had that guy...wait a minute, you mean I do have that guy?" Bizarre. quote: The thing that sticks out in my mind that is a scary similarity between these two coaches is an insistence on playing players who underperform at club level. Sampson had Burns and Wegerle (who showed at MLS level that they weren't that good) and Arena has Williams and Sanneh who quite frankly suck at club level. Wegerle was pretty good at one point, but he was 31 years old by the time Sampson inherited him and while he did only give him 20 caps (playing him about a third of the time), he probably played him a bit too much in 1998 (though his two goals against Canada that clinched the berth may have clouded his thinking a bit). Burns, I agree, wasn't that good, either. I can't figure out the Williams thing. But he does reward guys who do perform well at the club level --- not all those guys who he rewards go on to pay dividends with their chance on the National Team (Jason Kreis, please pick up the nearest white telephone), but guys like Armas, Llamosa, Olsen, Brown, and Mathis, not to mention Mastroeni, Presthus, Thornton and Rimando (who hasn't been capped yet, but has been called in) have gotten shots because of their good play at the club level. quote: Additionally, Bruce has Agoos who does play well at club level and vs weaker regional opponents, but is seriously lacking against any quality team (1st game vs. CR in KC was beat numerous times and should have rec'd a red card for last man intentional hand-ball after being badly beaten). When we look back at Arena's time at the helm, this inability to see players who are playing bad and take a risk with a player who is performing well at club level in a meaningful game will be the hallmarks of his reign! I think we've seen that the former appears to be true, but the latter is not. He does play guys who play well at the club level. And I'm sure he'll get to the others before too long. But not when he has bigger fish to fry right now, like winning the next two. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Futsal Fred on 06 Sep 2001 11:29 AM: Part of the difference too is that Sampson took over a team with somewhat high expectations. The team had done amazingly well in '94 (for whatever reasons) and the core of that team was still in their "prime". He therefore had VERY little leeway in regard to choosing key players. Guys like Lalas, for example, had a spot reserved. And Sampson was caught in a tough spot; going with the old faces seemed safe - at the very least no one could blame you too much if they screwed up. He figured it was safer. But Arena started with a clean slate. The team did so poorly in France that he could have sent them ALL packing and no one would have blamed him. So part of Arenas' mandate going in was to identify and develop new blood. Sampson's job was to not be Bora. And for those who are positive we're not going to J/K, I think you're mistaken. I'll bet a BigSoccer T shirt to the first person who takes me up on this: I say we're going. Any takers? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 06 Sep 2001 11:42 AM: Very good point, Fred. Part of Sampson's reticence to make changes came from his predecessor's success, which is something Arena has freedom from. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Khan on 06 Sep 2001 11:52 AM: quote: Originally posted by Defender It is ridiculous to call for the firing of Bruce Arena. MLS has given the US team some depth, however the last games have showed how far that depth goes. MLS is a good league, but a young one. It won't be until the 2006 WC, or for sure the 2010 WC until our depth is solidified and we can enter qualifying and keep a commanding presence. Firing Arena is ridiculous. Arena is building the program and bringing it to a higher level than ever before. I support Arena fully. Through thick and thin. Of course I question some of his decisions, but I think that Arena is the best option for now and the near future. He will have a positive lasting impact on the program. What a steaming pile of horse cr@p! Here's the point I think many are missing when they discuss the "future" of MLS: Without a tangible, quantifiable improvement in the product, there won't be a future for MLS. A measure of the league's success could be how far the USMNT goes in WC '02. After the debacle in France, we all hope for a second-round berth for the US. With an improvement in league quality comes an improvement in national team play. Thus, the growth in interest, the increase in investment/sponsorship/TV contracts, the building of stadia, the survival of MLS goes hand in hand in hand. But thanks to Arena's stupidity, we're seeing a regression in the USMNT. I thought we as a footballing nation were beyond showing fear at Azteca. I thought we were beyond the "pack it in" mentality at Saprissa. Thus, despite the injuries, the "sun in my eye" excuses that you Arena-strokers spit out, these results reflect poorly on MLS. If Arena can't get it through his ego-soaked skull that he has to do better, then I believe that Anschultz (sp?) Hunt, et. al would be better served to pull the plug! These guys didn't get wealthy by making losing business decisions. If the USMNT is an index of the health of MLS, then we're knee-deep in horse manure. If we as fans can see this, then certainly Saint Phil and Lamar can as well. Bottom line is this: If it were my decision, I would have fired Arena a long time ago, revoked his coaching license, or reduced it to a "D" level license. But luckily for Bruce and for all you Arena apologists, it isn't my choice. Ritchie freakin Williams? You've gotta be out of your G!d dammned mind! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Futsal Fred on 06 Sep 2001 11:52 AM: Good God!! Someone on another thread is suggesting we bring back Lalas. Cats and Dogs sleeping together. Mass hysteria. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by E L F L A C O on 06 Sep 2001 11:57 AM: Arena was never the man for the job.. Who is DC united in WORLD FUTBOL??? who is Arena in WORLD FUTBOL??? the answer to both is nobody I have been saying to fire that clown for a while now but no one listens until now
Posted by Bigdudeduke on 06 Sep 2001 12:08 PM: Re: quote: Originally posted by Beetle Bailey COMPLETE SUCK Agoos -- MLS/Bruce's boy Cherundolo -- German 2nd/Bruce's boy Armas -- MLS/Bruce's boy Regis -- French 1st Sanneh -- German 1st/Bruce's boy There is no way that Armas should be on your suck list. He is the only player on the squad that plays a consistently decent game. The problem he is faced with is that he winds up supporting everyone else. Settle down and re-think your obviously wayward thoughts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by kenntomasch on 06 Sep 2001 12:14 PM: Did you know you can't spell "Knee-Jerk" without "Jerk"? quote: Originally posted by Khan Here's the point I think many are missing when they discuss the "future" of MLS: Without a tangible, quantifiable improvement in the product, there won't be a future for MLS. A measure of the league's success could be how far the USMNT goes in WC '02. That's one measure. Considering that hasn't happened yet, don't you think it's premature to wonder about what might happen? quote: After the debacle in France, we all hope for a second-round berth for the US. With an improvement in league quality comes an improvement in national team play. Thus, the growth in interest, the increase in investment/sponsorship/TV contracts, the building of stadia, the survival of MLS goes hand in hand in hand. So are those the "tangible, quantifiable improvements" in the MLS product you will be watching? I'm asking, seriously. Because usually people just trot out the "quality of play" pablum, which is decidedly unquantifiable once you ask someone to sit down and do it. If those are your criteria: *The National Team, though it has lost three in a row, is still better than it was three years ago (isn't that the point?). *There appears to be a growth in interest in MLS, based on the attendance increase and increased media presence. *Investment/sponsorship/TV contracts, obviously, are still a point of contention *We hear that stadia are on the way. While LA is still a rumour, Chicago has to happen before next April because the Fire has no place to play. So I'd say most of those things are trending upward. Not all, obviously, but most. quote: But thanks to Arena's stupidity, we're seeing a regression in the USMNT. Again, I ask you, is the team better when totally healthy now than it was in 1998? If so, that seems to go against "regression", doesn't it? Yes, they've regressed from the first half of the hex to the second half, but I think we can all see why. quote: I thought we as a footballing nation were beyond showing fear at Azteca. I thought we were beyond the "pack it in" mentality at Saprissa. Thus, despite the injuries, the "sun in my eye" excuses that you Arena-strokers spit out, these results reflect poorly on MLS. Anything that's bad for soccer is bad for us all, I always say. If the National Team does poorly, that reflects bad on us all. If they do well, that's a good thing for us all. This is not a startling revelation. quote: If Arena can't get it through his ego-soaked skull that he has to do better, then I believe that Anschultz (sp?) Hunt, et. al would be better served to pull the plug! These guys didn't get wealthy by making losing business decisions. And I'm sure they also didn't get wealthy by dumping stock when it lost some of its value for a short period. Serious investors are in it for the long haul. Anschutz and Hunt and the others are obviously in this for the long haul, and the Nats losing three straight is hardly going to make them "pull the plug" just like that. quote: If the USMNT is an index of the health of MLS, then we're knee-deep in horse manure. If we as fans can see this, then certainly Saint Phil and Lamar can as well. The USMNT is one indicator of the health of MLS. But isn't the health of the players themselves kind of important here? And if you can see it, I am sure Phil and Lamar can see that, but for the reasons outlined above, I doubt they're calling Soccer House today demanding Arena's head. quote: Bottom line is this: If it were my decision, I would have fired Arena a long time ago, revoked his coaching license, or reduced it to a "D" level license. But luckily for Bruce and for all you Arena apologists, it isn't my choice. Thank God. quote: Ritchie freakin Williams? You've gotta be out of your G!d dammned ind! Now there you have a point. And E L F L A C O? We're still not listening. Ask Vasco de Gama who DC United is in World Futbol. Oh, and come up with a "somebody" who could and should realistically take over. That would help. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by nobody on 06 Sep 2001 12:30 PM: I still don't understand why everyone thinks we are so much better than three years ago. Sure we had a good run at the beginning of the hex where we scored some opportunistic and sometimes lucky goals, and played tight in the back. But we barely made it through the first round, going down to the last half hour against a pathetic Barbados before we locked anything up, and this was before the injury bug struck. We had at least as good a team in 98, when we qualified with a game to spare and never looked in danger of being left. In 94, we made it to the second round with a team that I would put against the 98 version any day. This crap about how good the US has gotten is nothing but PR, the results in meaningful games just don't support it. We haven't even seen signifigant improvement at the youth level. We only won one game in the Olympics and got a lucky draw. We've been further in the U20 as far back as the 80s for god sake. We pulled out a semi-final in the U17s by sending a group of players that lived together, played together, and trained together for two years against teams that other countries gathered up for a couple months, played a few friendlies, and trotted out there. Some accomplishment. I'd love to say we're imnproving, but I just don't see it. The facts look like we had a little peak in 94, followed by a slow decline, ending up right about where we were 20 years ago. Until we get some results, I will not change that opinion. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by shawn12011 on 06 Sep 2001 02:25 PM: OK, I have now read this thread from the start and have a couple of questions and comments. 1. Would you have prefered a return to the early 1900's (2-3-5) formation? Where every one was sent forward. While we are at it why not send 6 year old Catholic girls to School in a Catholic School in the Middle of Protestant Belfast. Nevermind, bad idea. 2. I have read many post through this thread where people assessed and criticized both players and coaching, with regards to the USMNT. Some of these make me wonder if these individuals have ever played this game before. Some of the blame being handed out is so off the wall it is incredible. Players out of postion getting other players into trouble. Coaches being blamed for poor lineups. It just gets to me when the "Polyanna's" of the world talk about who things are run from the comfort of their couch. Get off your couch and try playing this game sometime. Then tell Brfuce and these players how easy it is and remember you will not be facing nearly as good of an opponent as they are. Now this is not directed at everyone but those that it is know who you are. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by nobody on 06 Sep 2001 03:00 PM: "Coaches being blamed for poor lineups." Who else would you suggest blaming for poor lineups? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by pablin on 06 Sep 2001 04:52 PM: Leading up to the game against Costa Rica I have to admit that I have agreed with most of what Arena has done as USMNT coach. No matter if people will admit it or not, most countries at our level of play would have an extremely hard time in qualifying if they had the number of injuries that we have had. But, I will have to say that yesterday's game pissed me off. I understand that Arena wanted to salvage a point in costa rica. That he wanted to be strong defensively. But I cannot understand his player selection yesterday. Kirovski, has not shown anything during qualifying. For being one of our larger targets up top, he offers very little strength and was constantly manhandled. I can't help but think that the better approach would have been to try and beat Costa rica with speed and skill, not strength. Rather than go through the whole lineup let me just say this, we fielded a lineup that offers the US very VERY little offensive flow nor ability to hold the ball in transition. I understand that we fielded a team that would supposedly battle and hold tight defensively, but a team is asking for trouble if you are playing defense the entire time. Sure the US made some defensive stops, but all we did was follow up a stop with giving the ball right back to them. And as more time goes by in the game...costa rica will throw more into the attack becasue they KNOW that we didn't have but 3 guys on the field with any offensive skill. YOu cannot field a team made up of Sanneh, Armas, Williams, Jones, Kirovski...and expect the US to play well. I still can't figure out why Arena didn't play Donovan or Henderson. Maybe the US didn't have a lot of time to call in any new players not already with the team.....But to sit a skilled player like Donovan was amazing to me. The kid has touch, vision, and the ability to not lose the ball under pressure. He still is learning and makes mistakes, but he has the ability to play at a much higher level than all the guys I mentioned above. Why Arena didn't play him is beyond me. Do I think Arena needs to be canned. Verdict still isn't out....if the US fails at qualifying..yes.......but I think that it is still to soon to say. In my mind he has still done a good job overall....he just really sucked as a coach this last game. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Defender on 07 Sep 2001 02:02 AM: quote: Originally posted by Khan Here's the point I think many are missing when they discuss the "future" of MLS: Without a tangible, quantifiable improvement in the product, there won't be a future for MLS. A measure of the league's success could be how far the USMNT goes in WC '02. After the debacle in France, we all hope for a second-round berth for the US. With an improvement in league quality comes an improvement in national team play. Thus, the growth in interest, the increase in investment/sponsorship/TV contracts, the building of stadia, the survival of MLS goes hand in hand in hand. But thanks to Arena's stupidity, we're seeing a regression in the USMNT. The improvement in quality play has shown. The young MLS players (Mathis/Wolff) have had a greater initial impact than the older MLS players have. MLS is only six years old. The league has improved from a super-college league to a legitimate, quality league. The older players are past their days of developing. They aren't going to get better. Wolff, Mathis and others are benefitting from playing at a higher level at an earlier age. Look at our youth national teams. The U-17 team of Landon & Co. placed fourth in the World Youth Championships. That same team did horriffic at the U-20 World Youth Championships. The players that were effective and dangerous were the professional players, and DJ Countess (who later turned pro early). The media ripped the players who optioned for college. Now look at the U-23 squad that placed fourth in the Olympics in Sydney. The entire roster, minus one Conor Casey (who later turned pro early) were professional players. And from what I can remember almost the entire team, for sure the majority, played in MLS. This is why the 2006 and 2010 WC will be our true breakout years. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted by Captain10 on 07 Sep 2001 09:10 AM: Re: quote: Originally posted by kenntomasch Again, I ask you, is the team better when totally healthy now than it was in 1998? If so, that seems to go against "regression", doesn't it? Yes, they've regressed from the first half of the hex to the second half, but I think we can all see why. No, IMO the TEAM is NOT better (even when healthy) than it was in 1998. Not even close! Some of our players are better at an earlier age than some of the veterans, but we currently have players that have minimal skill (Sanneh, Cobi). And our basic fundamental TEAM skills are mediocre to poor. SO ... as a TEAM, nope ... as the team stands now, we haven't gotten better in the past 8 years, and with Arena, I don't see it happening either...
Hopefully someone is taking notes today. Mods, can we institute an Over-21 policy on any board with "Analysis" in the title?
Re: Re: Fire Bruce! - Retro Style When you get your check from the USSF, you can decide how the team plays.
Good read, I really like this part: "0-0-3 in World Cup 2002, 32nd place.. Congratulations Bruce.." LMAO, oh how wrong he would be... But seriously, I don't think we should be calling for Bruce's head just yet, but he does need to get his sh!t together, this is NOT the time to start screwing up. This game doesn't mean anything as far as win or lose, but it does continue a "playing not to lose" trend. If you "play not to lose" you will do exactly what you're trying to prevent.
I'm not wanting to boot ole' Bruce yet, but I've seen some disturbing things even from WC '02. 1)He has too much loyalty to players who shouldn't be playing. In WC '02 he continued to play and stick by Agoos when it was obvious he was a liability. Berhalter is another example of loyalty. 2)Stagnant play since WC '02. The 4-4-2 has go to go. It doesn't work for our team anymore. Our counterattack game has been figured out (most recent example is vs. Holland). We play too defensive ball. We need more offense and a system to let our creative players work. I think a 3-5-2 would be ideal. Let McBride and Donovan stay up top and put Mathis in the CAM postion. 3)We don't play anybody of importance or skill very often. Holland was a nice change, but other than that we don't take on skillful countries in soccer. I know some of this has to do with those countries not wanting to play us, but still, we should be playing more than this. We should also think about trying to play in more intl tourneys. 4)People continue to say that BA is just trying out different players to see if the work or not, but he seems to continually try out the wrong players. He keeps bring Kirvoski to camp when he shouldn't. I dont' know what Woly was doing there yesterday. He should be taking those players that he believes excell in MLS but don't translate well to the senior side and work with them to get them there instead of taking so-so player from MLS that play so-so ball with the senior side. 5)Again, we just need to introduce more offense to our game. The team isn't good enough nor really has the personell to score just 1 goal and sit on it the game. We're going to be one of those teams that will sometimes need to simply outshoot the other team and come away with more goals than the other guys. Put 3 or 4 in and give up 2. We also need to work more with coming out of the mid then relying on constant counterattack because, again, like I've said before, people have figured that out.
Yes, Bruce is a bit too loyal, but Berhalter is a bad example. He played pretty well recently. I agree here. The US sucks at developing wide players. (Probably our mentality of "best players play in the middle from other sports.) So why play a formation with 4 of them instead of 2. And what makes it worse is that the way Bruce plays it, he really, really asks alot of those wide players (what with playing Armas as a central mid.) In the last WCQ cycle, I suggested that after qualifications ended, they tell Bruce either to take on a tactical advisor, or have him prove why he didn't need one, or fire him. Bruce's tactics were obviously brilliant in the Cup. Whether that proves I was wrong, or that Bruce identified his weakness and worked on it, I don't know. !!??!!?? Holland is a great team, and they played at home. Plus, many of our players just didn't execute. If they had, we would have possessed the ball better.