EURO 2012 FINAL Sunday, 1 July 2012 - Olympic Stadium, Kyiv - 2:45pm EST Spain : Italy Referee: Pedro Proença (POR) Assistant Referees: Bertino Miranda (POR), Ricardo Santos (POR) Additional Assistant Referees: Manuel de Sousa (POR), Duarte Gomes (POR) Fourth Official: Cüneyt Çakır (TUR) Reserve Assistant Referee: Bahattin Duran (TUR) UEFA Delegate: TBA UEFA Referee Observer: David Elleray (ENG) This thread is for all pre-, play-by-play, and post-match discussion of the referee and other officials on the match. Only news and analysis or other facts/information related to the referees and the officiating should be posted here. This is not a team or rivalry thread and will be heavily moderated to ensure it remains that way. Please read the stickied thread at the top of this forum if you have further questions. Thank you.
Really racking my brain on this one but I don't think we'll ever have the sure answer. It's possible Spain's involvement is what precluded Webb. After all, if Spain loses, not only can they not "veto" Webb (I use that term in quotes, because it would surely be a passive veto), but Proenca can't do Portugal. A Portugal v Italy Final would have had to be Webb, it seems... since Eriksson and others obviously weren't considered.
It's just that Spain and Proenca (and his ARs/AARs) are all from the Iberian Penninsula. I know that Spain and Portugal are arch rivals, and I don't know what type of relationship the nations have. Look at North and South Korea, but it just looks odd to me. I'm sure that Proenca can be impartial regardless. I've always said, I could referee a match in which my relative was a player and still be impatial, but I wouldn't do it. Even so, I can see where there could be a very good chance of something being said if there is any controversy affecting Italy. Maybe it's the similarities in the languages of all three countries.
Portugal were just beaten by Spain and now we get a Portuguese ref.. I don't think I've seen something like this before.
France beat Spain in the R16 at WC2006 and then there was a Spanish ref when France played Brazil in the QFs. So it has happened (though that might have been the first time in the modern era). However, you are right if you are saying it's never happened in a Final. That's the reason why I didn't think Proenca had a shot at this game.
It's worth considering that an additional convention has been broken. Proenca is stepping on the field for two straight matches with Italy. It will be harder to prove that's a completely new phenomenon, but I've got to think it's extraordinarily rare if it's ever happened before.
For all the analysis of the appointment and what it means, I can't help but thinking that Collina is leading these "reforms." It's seems to essentially be the greatest referee of a generation saying, "You know what? All these unwritten rules were stupid and I'm getting rid of them." Either that, or circumstances just really tied the Committee's hands and Proenca was the only acceptable option. Even still, once conventions are torn down, it's pretty hard to put them back up.
He's not doing two straight matches with Italy, but rather a QF and a final. I wonder how rare that phenomenon is. Also, his appointment is similar to that of Irmatov in the 2011 Asian Cup. Uzbekistan was eliminated by Australia in SF.
Two straight for him, I meant. Interesting. Some of us get a little Euro-focused on these things. Did not know that.
To me this seems weird because Webb had an awesome Euros. He did everything expected of him and like MassRef said in person it was even more obvious that he deserves to be at the top level. I don't get this at all.
I think the reason these "conventions" have been broken is that they really are stupid to begin with. These teams and players have seen the likes of Proenca, Webb, Rizzoli, etc. countless times at the club and national level that the their neutrality isn't an issue. The reason these conventions were put in place was in the 60s and 70s referees were not as high profile and well known as they are now and players might have seen a referee once and never again. So neutrality/integrity was a legitimate concern. Also, the media was more paranoid than now. Since Proenca got the Final, that means Rizzoli was either the number one choice or number two. I'm thinking that he was the main choice and would have gotten it if Italy lost. He, in my opinion had the best tournament. He had three very high profile games in England vs. France, Portugal vs. Netherlands and Spain vs. France and they all went really well.
Webb has already worked the Holy Grail of the sport. While he's had an excellent tournament, Proenca (and Rizzoli) deserve high profile finals as well. Allow them a shot IMO
How about one of the moderators move all of the appointment speculation posts to the predictions thread so those of us who just wish to discuss the actual officiating of the match can do so in this thread without having to skim through all of that personal conjecture? That seems to be a reasonable request.
I realize it's not Girls U12, but putting in bobby pins right before kickoff that you "smuggled" in clipped to your sleeve?
I don't think there was any smuggling--just part of his routine. Buffon has been doing that for over a decade now... every official on the field will know he wears those and have no problem with them.
The AAR made the call. You could see him visibly shaking his right arm "no" and talking into the mic on the live shot. Of course, I think most referees would argue he made the wrong call. It's not so much that AARs aren't giving input at this tournament... they just seem very, very reluctant to make the big calls. And that was one of my original complaints about this setup (you are putting so much pressure on AARs; essentially it's "don't call anything, except the biggest possible game-changing decisions"). Having watched the UCL the past couple years, I was less concerned with that phenomenon. This tournament has made me more concerned about it.