If MLS had pro/rel, rather than apply the Euro model i would like to see the Liga MX model applied (before they agreed to a por/rel stoppage). You take each team's relegation pts for the past three years and divide (each slot in the table is worth a certain number of pts). It makes more sense and a team wouldn't be punished for having one bad off kilter season but would be punished for consistently having a poor performance in the league.
Well then for more fun, MLS buys or there is a merger of USL-C & USL-1 Since now all 3 levels would be owned by the single entity concept of MLS, pro-rel financial impacts of teams dropping could be reduced somewhat.. Maybe only 1 or 2 teams to keep 'parachute" costs down, but still allow for a "race at the bottom" to be as interesting as the race at the top.
It has been 10 years and four days since this thread was started. Still no promotion/relegation, thankfully. One thing I did learn is that Socceramerica.com still exists. I have not looked it in, well, 10 years or more.
Relegation / Promotion is not really part of the North American sports mentality. Since as far back as I can remember , basketball , football and even baseball to a point rely on college sports. (I think maybe even hockey but I don’t follow that sport.)Teams are actually rewarded for finishing last with high draft picks and punished for winning. If a team wins a Super Bowl for example , that team may get a first round draft pick but they get to pick the last pick available in the first round. If they have the right scouts and know who to pick , they may get a Dan Marino but not always. It’s the same with basketball and baseball too. In Europe if you get relegated , teams have to sell all their players and teams turn horrible in a span of months with players coming and going. Some teams even drop another tier or even two in successive seasons if they have to sell off everyone and have no revenue coming in. This also is another mentality North Americans will never get used to and won’t happen here. I mean don’t we all love having a team go worst to first in a span of a few years or looking forward to next season? You have the San Francisco 49ers going 4–12 in 2018 to 13–3 in 2019 going to Super Bowl LIV (vs. Chiefs) and even though they lost, it was a very successful campaign and they used that losing year to groom their players and get good. This will never happen with pro/rel...
I wonder what would happen if FIFA tells MLS to adhere to Pro/Rel, which btw, I know will never happen but still intriguing to think about. They can't legally enforce it but they can take away sanction from MLS.
Well first they would have to pass an actual FIFA regulation stating its required (the oft cited FIFA Congress statement was just a suggestion, similar to their suggestion leagues have no more than 18 teams which was passed at the same time and was equally unenforceable). Then they would have to apply that regulation equally across all leagues. Then, if all that happened, we could then discuss what they might do to MLS.
FIFA suits must be like: "You North Americans and your professional soccer leagues." I can see their point of view and yet perhaps they have an odd take on our point of view in that our other pro leagues have never even considered a lower league team entering and leaving their league season after season. Baseball if any would be ground level for this in our sports culture and even with multiple tiers of pro ball clubs in the sport. No promotion/relegation. If we look years back in the Pele era of our nation's attempt at Division-I pro soccer it was the clock running down, gimmick shootouts to settle the occasional tie game and the odd refusal to play in regional champions league play, being so insular in nature. FIFA HQ must have wondered to either laugh or cry with us across the pond. Then MLS arrived after the 1994 World Cup success and I am sure those same FIFA suits must have thought, right the New York league office gents will surely get in line here in the 90's! Yet all those old NASL hangover issues were still in place by our league's think tank but have rightfully gone away during those early years. Now FIFA suits are asking Dom and the lower USL leagues is by 2026 have your owners figure out some way of promoting lower tier teams up and down the pro soccer pyramid in your structure. Perhaps if not desired by MLS owners, then make the MLS set up unique to the pro soccer world. Yet do hold the weakest of clubs owners season after season culpable at some level. If not a drop to a lower league something that mimics this financially perhaps.
Honestly, I don't think there is anything FIFA can do in an international court to dictate what leagues can or can not do. If it were to go that far, just like the Bosman Ruling (although that may have been mostly against UEFA) , I seriously doubt they would win and may not even show up on that (relegation/promotion) issue. They could also risk American sponsorships which is one thing everyone knows they want desperately.
Except its not unique. A minority certainly, but there are multiple men's leagues (including now Liga MX) and about half of women's leagues who don't use P/R.
Oh no doubt, I was intending to communicate that the powers that be down at MLS HQ that a way to have a penalty of sorts for finishing in what is known as "the relegation zone" over dropping MLS teams from the league. -The last place team must pay for their rival team's entire travel expenses for road matches for the next season. Charter plane flights for the entire season. -The other two bottom of the table clubs must pay for the All-Star game festivities the following season and or the cost of the MLS Cup trophy itself.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8F2koiXoAAxnuy?format=jpg&name=small 2019-2020 EFL Championship Wages to Turnover percentage Reading: 211% Blackburn: 189% Brentford: 186% Wigan: 168% etc... Source: SwissRamble 18 clubs spend more than 100% of their turnover on Wages. Chasing that Promotion.....and losing $10-20 million a year is the norm for most clubs. It is sustainable as long as their owners are willing to lose money.
Just realized this thread opened in 2010 ! And we in 2021 and pro/rel or change of season still has not happened ! Are we doing something right and FIFA is subtlety ok with it? Personally, to flip this, the rest of the world maybe needs to look at how we keep the majority of the teams competitive in this league, salary caps, build beautiful new stadiums , have pretty family safe games to go to etc. etc. Maybe the rest of the world needs to flip to a summer schedule and not play in rainy, cold, snowy conditions- maybe the fans might enjoy that too.
They're ok with it because nothing MLS is doing in regards to the schedule or pro/rel is against any FIFA policies, despite what some detractors like to claim.
FIFA can dictate to a point but there is nothing they can legally do. If MLS wants to keep a league intact without pro/rel; what will the governing body do exactly? Take them to an international court of law? How can they win on that issue? They can ban them from the World Cup or other tournaments but I doubt they would want to risk losing US advertising dollars. The USMNT didn’t qualify for WC 2018 and I’m sure FIFA was upset about that but they never told them to get a promotion -relegation system in place because they didn't qualify. Also, they let the Americans have the 1994 World Cup without a pro league in place so why would they all of sudden want to ban them now because there is no relegation? Honestly, I don't think they care either way.
Where has FIFA dictated promotion/relegation? There is no FIFA policy requiring it. They have rules about how it can or can't be used but nothing that says a country's leagues have to use it.
Maybe not on that issue but FIFA has dictated and used their influence and power many times in the past. I don't think they have recently. Although when João Havelange was in power, I seem to remember him dictating many times. As a matter of fact, I remember him distinctly saying and threatening something to the effect of "if the USA doesn't like it, we will take the World Cup away from them”. This was back before the 1994 tournament. I can’t remember what the issue was about or why he said what he did but I do recall those exact words. They still use their influence when it comes to the Olympic tournament and enforcing an Under 23 age limit (less three overage players) for that tournament. Anyway, my point is, even if they were to dictate or threaten , there really isn't anything they could do legally.
Pretty sure FIFA already give an unlimited exemption on two countries: USA and Australia on Article 9 of the FIFA statutes. Article 9 states that: "A club shall qualify for a domestic league championship by remaining in a certain division OR by promoted or relegated to another at the end of a season" The "or" part of the sentence is what most zealots gloss over because it doesn't fit their narrative. MLS Cup is, technically, a domestic league championship that teams can qualify via playoffs, so pro/rel does not apply to MLS. I mean, Riccardo Silva took US Soccer and MLS to Court of Arbitration for Sport - CAS ruled that there's no obligation for FIFA or US Soccer to implement pro/rel in the United States and the language stated in article 9 was meant to apply only in league structures where pro/rel was already in place.
This is really the key. FIFA has been clear that any of the statutes and such passed about how P/R works only apply to leagues that use P/R. They are not, in any way, a requirement that a league institute P/R. FIFA has never passed anything binding requiring it (the AFC did which is why the K-League started P/R, but FIFA has not). In fact the oft pointed to FIFA Congress resolution that was passed in their meeting in Sydney was specifically non-binding, just like the resolution passed at the same meeting limiting top leagues to 18 teams. Sepp was asked, by Australian media, immediately after that meeting if that meant that the Australian A-League would be forced to implement P/R and he stated quite clearly that it did not apply to leagues with out P/R.
The FFA (now Football Australia), the Australian federation, has been talking about pushing the A League into pro/rel but the time frame is always years away. I believe all the A League teams have licenses to participate in the top league until 2034 or something. The FFA actually ran the A League for quite a while but it became independent a couple of years ago. However, the A League has a lot of financial problems. The AFC wants Australia in the confederation so they aren't being too pushy.
In theory, yes. It's actually part of the negotiated settlement that FFA made with the owners of the A-League teams and other non-A-League teams to start the development of a division below the A-League that, over time, would allow for the implementation of pro/rel. However, there is no timeline for this, just that the FFA would get out of the way of creating the second division and implementation of pro/rel.
Yes, but it is a playoff that all the top division teams can qualify for. So "A club shall qualify for a domestic league championship by remaining in a certain division" is accurate for MLS.
Some random thoughts on this stuff MLS Cup if you added the professional USL teams would be similar to the English League cup right? Open Cup is "everybody" like the FA Cup The Shield is like winning the EPL league. SO not sure how these affect pro-rel in the USA in our current world. Because for the most part in most countries, pro-rel is based on the results of the regular season, as opposed to cups? To me the only way we see pro-rel in this country almost requires a merger of the MLS & USL. Because then, if the single entity ownership model then owns all 3 levels the pro soccer pyramid, then I would think it would not be too hard to have 1-2 teams drop. This mixes up the various teams in the league each year (meaning you see a team in your market you didn't see before etc.) Financial hardship for a dropped team can be a shared burden since all teams are still all owned by all owners. To me another very exciting feature besides having a race at the top of the table, you have a survival race at the bottom creating interest for teams who are normally out of playoff contention by mid season or worse.
They can simply not recognize them and prohibit FIFA affiliated league clubs from doing business with them.