I alluded to this at another thread but thought I'll open one about the same subject. Give me a little bit of a background about these two. So what is it about these two that have the fans hating each other? Are the two from the same side of the Bosphorus or from different sides and does that matter as to the rivalry? What do the colours actually mean? How hard are the fans, meaning do they like to fight each other a lot, some serserilik? (Sorry. My Turkish isn't good) Perhaps some Gala fans snuck in the match that night and made the trouble. j/k
During the last years of Ottoman Empire, English people in Izmir and Istanbul started playing football here. And then they founded the Istanbul league. English people were crowded in two sides of Istanbul: Kadýköy in Asian side and Beyoglu in European side. These are the exact places where Fenerbahçe and Galatasaray founded respectively. So Galatasaray and Besiktas are in Europe, while Fenerbahçe are in Asia. This isn't a source of rivalry. Actually there is no social, economic or politic reason for the rivalry. They are only opponents in football terms. When one of these teams play with Besiktas, the others support Besiktas, regardless of the standings or points. Maybe this rivalry is bigger because it is older. Because Fener and Gala are playing with each other since 1909, while they both started to play with Besiktas in 1924, although Besiktas started the football team in 1911. They fight a lot, if there is no barrier between them. foundation dates: Besiktas 1903, Galatasaray 1905, Fenerbahçe 1907. I dont know anything about colours.
The founder of galatasaray explains the mission of the team as: Playing like the English, and beat the non-turkish teams. The team was established in 1905 as the first Turkish football team in Turkey. Back then, the only people who played football were English ( they were playing their games in the pitch which is now Sukru Saracoglu- Fenerbahces stadium) and some of the students in galatasaray highschool came together with Ali Sami Yen as their leader and made a team. First they thought some names like ' Gloria' or ' Audace' but they decided that they should use their schools name. The schools name comes from the location which the school was in: Galata. And saray means palace. The school still continues the education since 1482. And the board members of Galatasray traditionally chosen from the graduates of the school. All of the presidents of Galatasaray since 1903 were the graduates of that highschool. It has a strong French connection. The colors were red and white at the beginning but then they changed it. Some say it is because of the first founder of the school in 1482 gave two roses to Sultan and they were red and yellow. The rivalry between Fenerbahce was not very important. There is not any difference in their fan base ( actually the leaders of the biggest fan groups from both sides are very good friends) but as I said Galatasarays board and members should come from the school and the school is such a big one in Turkey and has many important graduates. Any one can be a president of Fenerbahce but to become a Galatasaray president you should have more than money. The two doesnt have something that made them enemies like Barca- Real Madrid or Celtic- Rangers. I think they just like to fight.
It's not a rivalry that's based on religious or ethnic differences like Rangers vs. Celtic or Real Madrid vs. Barcelona, but it's more like a social status difference between the founders of both clubs. Fenerbahçe was founded by some English guys and some common Turkish fellows. Galatasaray was founded by the students of a kinda "classy" college of the time, Lycée de Galatasaray, an old educational institution, the foundation of which dates back to 1500s, had later on been given to French by the Sultan during a cultural/economical exchange agreement. So Galatasaray could be considered as Harvard or Yale of Ottoman Empire of the time. Still, the graduates of Galatasaray are automatically members of Galatasaray Sports Club, provided that they keep paying their annual membership after they leave school. If you are not a GS graduate then you need to go through a painful refereeing procedure to be admitted, which I find quite silly, despite me being a GS supporter. Fenerbahçe is more common and open in that sense so they have more supporters because of that fact. Actually, I am the only GS supporter in the family. All my other brothers and sisters (three each) support FB, my nephews and cousins also support FB. My late dad supported Trabzonspor, as it was his hometown club and my mum and her brother support BJK (Besiktas). The reason why some of FB and GS supporters hit each other is because they are a bunch of morons looking for an excuse to take their anger on some poor sods and there is the football so they think that's handy. If you took soccer from them they'd find something else to kick arse for. I've been to Fenerbahçe stadium many times in FB supporters' end with my FB-fan friends and had no bother at all. But recently it got so sick that even my FB-fan friends don't go to football anymore. Actually that rivalry is not only between FB and GS. sometimes it might get quite nasty if you get caught in the wrong end during the both teams' clashes with BJK. They have a solid diehard fan base (which I respect) and although they have their own hooligans too, I find BJK supporters more sensible people compared to GS and FB fans. For instance, when FB lost a match at home a couple years ago, their fans walked straight back to the team's training camp up the road from their stadium, busted the whole place and battered the hell out of their players for not giving them their money's worth. That's a kind of pressure these guys work under. Also both FB and GS supporters tend to desert their team and stop going to the matches if the team is not doing so good (in which "good" means leading the league at all times and winning the league at the end. Once Fenerbahçe CEO had said that being runners-up behind Galatasaray was not a success for Fenerbahçe. Old Turkish tradition: Succeed or die. If you come back with a failure, Sultan orders your head.) Whereas once Besiktas were not doing very good and had a heavy defeat, the following week their stadium was packed again, but this time all the fans had their backs turned to the pitch. The game was played with all the spectators facing outward in the stadium. They all turned up but they protested the team by not watching them. If i'm not wrong BJK won the game by a big margin that day but they didn't get an applause. I think the club later on released a formal apology to their supporters. That's a kind of commitment they have and I respect that. I think if Galatasaray was not there i'd have supported Besiktas, but Fenerbahçe? No f...kin' chance Finally, these clubs are not soccer clubs, but they are "sports" clubs: Fenerbahçe Spor Kulübü, Galatasaray Spor Kulübü etc., with soccer division as their largest activity. They also have branches in more than 20 different sports, ranging from basketball to wrestling, rawing to athletics, gymnastics to swimming. Besiktas is mainly a gymnasium club. That's why it is not Besiktas SK, but Besiktas JK (Jimnastik Kulübü). They started their footballing division in either 1911 or 1913 or something. And they are the only private body in Turkey who can use Turkish flag in their insignia. The law does not allow Turkish flag to be used in any logo that does not represent the Turkish State or its sovereignity. But Besiktas is exempt from that because they were founded within the Sultan's palace during Ottoman era so they used it in their symbol as the Sultan's royalty and the crescent-star in their logo stayed with them when republican era began.
Apparently when the founder members of Fenerbahçe got together the first time, one of them had specially ordered some footballing kit from England, which comprised a white-yellow top and dark blue shorts. Since then their colours are yellow and dark-blue. They use white on their kit as well, as it is one of their primary colours. In fact, apparently they wanted to use white and yellow at first and they did but they later on kept the colour of their shorts in as well. The name Fenerbahçe comes from a peninsula in Kadiköy, on the Anatolian side of Istanbul. When Galatasaray founded in Galatasaray neighborhood of Beyoglu (Pera) borough in Istanbul's European Side, their first colours were red and white. Then they changed it to yellow and black and then they changed black to red to eventually make it yellow and red. They still use black in some of their kit though, as opposed to Fenerbahçe's white in their official yellow-dark blue kit. Besiktas JK was founded in Besiktas borough of Istanbul, 3/4 of a mile away from neighborhood of Galatasaray (literally down the road from them). But don't get caught in there with wrong team colours Besiktas JK sports a black and white outfit and announce them as their official colours, although they also quite frequently use flag red (Al) along with black and white, as they first used red and white as their first colours. When Ottomans lost the Balkan war they converted their colours to black and white until the day the lost soils in Balkans were regained. Those days of extreme patriotic emotions have long been replaced by peaceful friendly ones but the colours still remained as black and white. Knowing this fact I'm personally glad to see them using red among their kit colours again as it indicates that they are coming to terms with their history and today's facts. They are moving on. More information about these clubs can be obtained from their respective official websites: The links directly lead to their English language section header: Fenerbahçe SK Galatasaray SK Besiktas JK
about Besiktas supporters I don't know do you remember it Barýs, but when Toshack was in charge of Besiktas, after a series of four defeats in a row, Besiktas were playing against Gençlerbirligi. Just before the start. The closed stand, called all the players hand to hand to the stand as usual; and when they came close, they shouted altogether: "Hepiniz orospu cocugusunuz" - "You all are sons of the bitches" But the players and Toshack had deserved it. 4 defeats in a row, and 12 defeats in total season. Then Besiktas won the match 3-1, at least. But I agree Besiktas supporters are different. In March, on the QF of UC, when we were on a 2-0 deficit to Lazio, in the 70th minute, when the hopes gone, they -actually, we- started singing "Sevdim seni bir kere / Baþkasýný sevemem Deli diyorlar bana / Desinler deðiþemem" "Once I fell in love with you / I can't love anyone else They call me crazy / Let them call, I can't change" in every stand. Then we lightened our flares, which we had been keeping for a win. It was a fantastic atmosphere, and Sergen gifted the consellation goal. It was fantastic, and I was absolutely happy despite losing. Yes, I think we are different
Re: about Besiktas supporters sure, you are different. all you do is singing. I have been in many Besiktas games maybe more than I have been in Galatasarays( I live in Besiktas), and the thing I noticed is you sing all night long but you cant put a pressure on the other team. It sounds even funnier when you watch the game from TV. The other team is attacking and the fans dont seem to be bothered, they just keep on singing. no whistling, no sign that anything bad might happen in the next few seconds, just sing. There is the difference between your fans and the other two. The chanting should be more about disturbing the other team and leaving your players do their own jobs. And to do it, you need to focus on the game, not on the beatiful songs you created last week. BTW, one of the songs from BJK fans I heard last week from my friends was like this: Hostes viski getirsene, getirsene, getirsene, Tek buzlu olsun,.... They actually did sing this in a game. But it is funny
yes you are right. but it happens in the league games, we don't have to put pressure on, Besiktas is already winning. In hard matches we whistle when other teams possess the ball. One of my favourites from this year's Ankaragücü match: "Rýdvan, ofsayt mýydý? Rýdvan ofsayt mýydý?...." "Rýdvan(tv commentator), was it offside?" lol
Thanks a lot, guys, for the info. I've learned a lot more about Fener vs Gala than before I started this thread. Hey, I read that Fener and Gala are renovating their home stadia. Fener's ground was used for the England game. Is that ground already built up or is there some way to go?
about the stadia... fener renewed their stadium, they did it by demolishing only one stand and finishing it... they started with the stands behind the goals, then they built the closed stand, and there is only one stand to be renewed... galatasaray are renewing ali sami yen... they are playing at Olympic Stadium now. But they have cash problems. If they start building it now, they will finish it when they are in the second division I think. (They are out of form, and they have lots of debts)
I wondered how a large group of people can sing one thing in unison. First of all, who gets to decide what to sing at the stadium at any given moment? Is there a leader or leaders who come up with the ideas and then try to get everyone else to say the same thing?
Yes there are leaders who start the songs or the chants etc.. And if you don't sing or chant along, it is dangerous for your life, lol.