Fallujah: Lesson Learned?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Chicago1871, Nov 14, 2004.

  1. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    General Praises Speed of Fallujah Success
    The [very] big question is, are they prepared to hold onto it? If there is one constant theme of this war it is that the US has underestimated it's enemies and/or overestimated itself. The attack on Fallujah was much better orchestrated than the previous attempt, will the occupation of the city be improved as such as well?
     
  2. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    So the US military has learned something. But don't you think that the "Insurgents" have learned something as well?

    For one thing their ranks are swelling, it's changed, the fight against Saddam is history, this is a fight of Islam, a jihad against the US and it's colony of Israel. This war is not going away any time soon.

    Agreed the attack on Fallujah was better organized but then everyone knew it was coming including the insurgs and most of them moved out, another reason why the city was taken so fast. I doesn't matter if the US wants to hold on to it, it'll just tie up troops while another city (Mosul?) becomes the next on the list. Troops on the ground are going to get thinner and thinner.
     
  3. Metroweenie

    Metroweenie New Member

    Aug 15, 2004
    Westchester, NY
    Do you have any support for that?

    Also, while a lot of the insurgents themselves may be fighting a jihad against the US and Israel, I think if US occupation ends support amongst the general public would dry up.
     
  4. Karl K

    Karl K Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    Suburban Chicago
    Well, let's recall what happened in Najaf.

    Moktadr al Sadr and his thugs held the mosques and the population hostage, the Marines came in, and booted them out. The people cheered when the the Mahdi were crushed.

    I think in general the population in Falluja is more sympathetic to the anti-democratic fascist terrorist jihadists (I won't deign to call them "insurgents" like they've all got Che Guevara posters), but probably not by much.

    So, we'll see. Things were certainly NOT going to get better if we let this sore fester. I think it's likely that things will be better rather than worse. But you never know.
     
  5. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    The latest on that was on 60 minutes today by another (disgruntled) ex CIA analyst. He was the man on OBL and sounded pretty plausible. But that was jus one source...but I'm off out to dinner right now.
     
  6. The Wanderer

    The Wanderer New Member

    Sep 3, 1999
    Yeah next time don't warn innocent people so that the left can have their field day when they accidentally get gunned down. Oh wait, we did warn them, and in the process some terrorists escaped which the left is having a field day with. The left just wants their cake and to eat it too---some kind of perfect world where we take out all the bad guys, lose none of ours, and no innocents die. Thank god these guys weren't around in the late 1700s when we needed a revolution.
     
  7. Ian McCracken

    Ian McCracken Member

    May 28, 1999
    USA
    Club:
    SS Lazio Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I stopped reading here.
     
  8. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    You can read...???
     
  9. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :rolleyes:

    Would you like me to point out that the architect of the welfare state in the USA was in the White House was prosecuting the war against fascism, while many conservatives were -- how shall I put this? -- a little more conciliatory towards Der Fuehrer?

    In other words, conservatives can be real p u s s i e s when it suits their purposes.
     
  10. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
    http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/new_world_order/bush_nazis.html

    "He did not have to transfer his Nazi assets at the end of World War II, all he had to do was transfer the ownership documents - stocks, bonds, deeds and trusts--from his bank in Berlin through his bank in Holland to his American friends in New York City: Prescott Bush and Herbert Walker. Thyssen's partners in crime were the father and father-in-law of a future President of the United States."
     
  11. sch2383

    sch2383 New Member

    Feb 14, 2003
    Northern Virginia
    As much as I want to believe that the insurgents are done, I really don't. I give it two or three weeks until the car bombing and the like starts up.
     
  12. obie

    obie New Member

    Nov 18, 1998
    NY, NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They've already done it.

    http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=582912

    So we gain Fallujah, but lose Mosul. Our military leaders would probably suck at Risk.
     
  13. 1953 4-2-4

    1953 4-2-4 Red Card

    Jan 11, 2004
    Cleveland
    2 minutes ago, some asian anchor on CNN (sorry, don't know her name) had some "war expert" on, who gave a summary of how the military "let Zarqaui and most of the insurgents get away" and then the anchor lady says, "so the 38 soldiers died for nothing." And proceeded to shake her head as if she should be military strategist. Crazy how bad news people are at hiding their slant.
     
  14. sardus_pater

    sardus_pater Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Sardinia Italy EU
    Club:
    Cagliari Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4614717,00.html

    http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/...q--us-marine-executes-shot-man-name_page.html

     
  15. 352klr

    352klr Member

    Jan 29, 2001
    The Burgh of Edin
    Have you seen the footage, because I have on reuters. He leans around a wall and has his rifle horizontal. Takes careful aim for a couple seconds, fires, says he's gone, and switches weapons with someone else. So basically what happens on the video does not jive with what the paper is describing. Nowhere on the video do you see an injured Iraqi, nor do you hear a "request" to get neared to an injured Iraqi.
     
  16. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Um, you seem to forget that we went to Iraq to get WMDs, and that the people of Iraq would greet us with flowers.

    Let's get back to that fundamental reality, and THEN judge the 2nd Battle of Fallujah, ok? This is supposed to be part of the war on terror. Well, what did those poor saps from Fallujah have to do with 9/11, or any act of terror against the US? Riddle me that, Rush.
     
  17. sardus_pater

    sardus_pater Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Sardinia Italy EU
    Club:
    Cagliari Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    My opinion is that this kind of things always happen in a war (being that precise incident correctly reported or not).

    That's why war is horror and anyone should do anything to avoid it.

    I don't feel like discussing again the issue "was the war justified?" but... I have to confess that sometimes I think "maybe if common americans happy in their homes had to experience directly what war is, they (many of them) wouldn't be so easy with starting them".

    It's depressing to see that what only matters is the number of dead americans.

    I had my mom to tell me stories about how it feels to be under heavy bombings (WW2). I think this helped me to be always in touch with reality.

    As a side note - I am still angry at how media easily accepted the idea of not allowing independent reporting.
     
  18. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Iraq fighting spreads far beyond Fallujah

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6403689/

     
  19. -cman-

    -cman- New Member

    Apr 2, 2001
    Clinton, Iowa
    Never start a land war in f***ing Asia!
     
  20. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]

    Never get involved in a land war in Asia!
     
  21. Achtung

    Achtung Member

    Jul 19, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well for the average American, sacrificing for the war effort involves spending the 99¢ on a yellow "Support Our Troops" magnet for their SUV. The fact that the media sanitizes almost every war image we receive doesn't help either. As long as they make war look more like a video game and less like what it really is, the majority of people just aren't going to get it.

    The insurgents still appear to be more wideapread and bigger in ranks than we're giving them credit for.
     
  22. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    These are no longer (and I'm not really convinced they ever were) truly used to show support as much as looking trendy whilst "showing support."
     

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