F1 - 2010 Season

Discussion in 'Automotive' started by Juan Carlos II, Jan 13, 2010.

  1. Pathogen

    Pathogen Member

    Jul 19, 2004
    Like you care.
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :D Makes you wonder if we couldn't do just as well as him.
     
  2. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Well, so Barcelona was last week. A couple of quick thoughts:

    1) Red Bull seems to be quicker than ever
    2) Only McLaren could somewhat keep up
    3) Passing was as impossible than ever, just look at Schumacher holding up Button for 2/3 of the race while being roughly 1 second slower per round...that's huge
    4) Mercedes brought a very different car with a longer wheelbase and a cool new airbox (see images below) but they rather lost time to the other teams compared to the previous races.
    5) Hamilton with a great race hat to retire because of a damaged tire...coincidence? Or is he simply driving too hard for the one stop strategy that results from the refueling ban.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So, on to Monaco, the classic, the biggest race all year:
    1) Mercedes has gone back to the old wheelbase and the old rear wing. The wheelbase because it gives you maneuverability which is needed in Monaco. The rear wing had a passive stalling system which imitated the active F-duct McLaren introduced, which is apparently not needed on this slow course.
    2) Which brings us to Ferrari and Sauber. Both introduced their own F-duct system for Barcelona and both are not using it in Monaco. Again because on this slow course, it would have more negative than positive effects. McLaren will use their F-duct system, their car is designed around it and it can't be taken away.
    3) After the first session, it seems to be a lot tighter than in Barcelona. Especially Mercedes looks strong. But then again, it has only been the first day and especially Red Bull have always upped the ante during qualification.
    4) The weather is unstable. Currently, it's predicted to remain dry, both on saturday and on sunday. But that could change quickly. And Monaco in the rain would be crazy...so I'm hoping that it will rain :D
     
  3. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    So Ecclestone has come out and said that HRT will have problems finishing the season.
    We'll see how this all turns out, but once again, Mosley's expansion program has proven to be problematic...
     
  4. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Monaco Qualification Results:
    Code:
    1	 M. Webber ›	        Red Bull	
    2	 R. Kubica ›	        Renault	
    3	 S. Vettel ›	        Red Bull	
    4	 F. Massa ›	        Ferrari	
    5	 L. Hamilton ›	        McLaren	
    6	 N. Rosberg ›	        Mercedes	
    7	 M. Schumacher ›	Mercedes		
    8	 J. Button ›	        McLaren	
    9	 R. Barrichello ›	Williams		
    10	 V. Liuzzi ›	        Force India
    11	 N. Hülkenberg ›	Williams	
    12	 A. Sutil ›	        Force India	
    13	 S. Buemi ›        	Toro Rosso	
    14	 V. Petrov ›        	Renault		
    15	 P. de la Rosa ›	Sauber		
    16	 K. Kobayashi ›	        Sauber		
    17	 J. Alguersuari ›	Toro Rosso	
    18	 H. Kovalainen ›	Lotus
    19	 J. Trulli ›	        Lotus		
    20	 T. Glock ›	        Virgin	
    21	 L. di Grassi ›	        Virgin		
    22	 B. Senna ›	        HRT	
    23	 K. Chandhok ›	        HRT	
    24	 F. Alonso ›	        Ferrari	
    
    Alonso crashed his car during the training session and couldn't participate. He'll have to start from the pits tomorrow.

    Other than that, the only surprise would be Kubica on second place. The Renault is working perfectly in Monaco it seems. Apparently, it's a rather short car which helps on this tight course.
     
  5. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Now that we're well under way in the season, let me try to make a ranking of the different cars. I put them into separate tiers the way I see it:

    1) Red Bull
    This is pretty obvious. Red Bull dominates the pace so far this season. They do however have problems in terms of reliability. That's why Red Bull isn't far away in the Championship at this point. But it is the team to beat and apparently, the other teams are joining forces and sharing the material they gathered on the Red Bull so far.

    -----------------------------------------------------

    2) Ferrari
    Ferrari has been strong from the start of the season. They've had some problems regarding their engine but apparently that's behind them now. With the F-duct ready, they are closest to Red Bull at this point.

    3) McLaren
    The F-duct gave them an advantage early in the season, but for Turkey, I'd expect at least Ferrari and Mercedes to follow suit, so it won't help them as much as it did. In Barcelona, McLaren was closest to Red Bull, but I do expect them to drop back eventually.

    -----------------------------------------------------

    4) Mercedes
    Mercedes is very strong in Monaco, but was unfortunate (stupid) in qualifying and only ended up on pos 6 and 7 when they could easily have been on 3 and 4. But I also expect them to drop back on a different course. There is a lot of potential in this team, but there is also still a lot of work ahead of them.

    5) Renault
    Renault is really quick in Monaco, but like Mercedes, I expect them to not do as well on other courses. But they are still a very positive surprise this season, being up there and turning the top 4 into a top 5.

    -----------------------------------------------------

    6) Force India
    Force India was very strong early in the season, but you can tell that it's a small team by the fact that they're slowly dropping back. They still have the Mercedes engine which is the strongest in the field and Sutil is a very talented driver, but there's only so much you can do...

    7) Williams
    Williams is doing a fine job with the Cosworth engine and slowly gaining ground in midfield. I also think that they have done a good job with their drivers. Barichello has a lot of experience and still has a lot of pace, Hülkenberg is a good prospect but still needs some time and he can profit from his experienced team mate.

    8) Sauber
    Sauber is kind of a disappointment this season. I have to say that I expected more after the winter tests. On the other hand, given all the problems they have had as a late team on the grid, I guess it's not all that bad. Unfortunately for Sauber, BMW has not done as nice a job as Honda after leaving the F1. Plus, I think Sauber is really hurt by the choice of drivers. Neither has the quality to squeeze every tenth of a second out of the car. It's especially stupid when you realize that they could have had Heidfeld.

    9) Toro Rosso
    TR suffers from having to develop their own chassis now. They simply don't have the know-how to do it. It's kinda surprising though that they're that far behind, given the fact that they had last years Red Bull to work with. Goes to show how much development is done each year.

    -----------------------------------------------------

    10) Lotus
    Among the newcomers, Lotus has done the best job by far. Which is not all that surprising, given the fact that they had the most time and the biggest budget. Still it's a good job. Not only do they have the quickest, but also the most reliable car among of the new teams. Plus, they have managed to sign a good driver pairing with a lot of experience which should help advancing the car.

    11) Virgin
    Virgin's pace is only slightly behind Lotus, on some courses they're even quicker. But as predicted before the season, reliability is a key issue here. Not only do they have problems finishing a race, but also having everything ready for the practice sessions. I'm still convinced that the Virgin has more potential than the Lotus, but it doesn't help when you don't even begin to access it. Glock is a good driver IMHO, but given the little track time he gets, it's also hard for him to help evolve the car.

    -----------------------------------------------------

    12) Hispana Racing Team
    No surprise to see HRT at the very end of the pecking order. It's simply an awful car and the inexperienced drivers have problems keeping it on the track. I mean Chandhok was 6 seconds behind the pole in Monaco, a course where everybody is traditionally close together. They really are a rolling obstacle on the track. Hard to imagine where USF1 would be had they made it...
     
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  6. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    So the Monaco Grand prix is over and here are my thoughts:

    1) As a Mercedes fan, I'm of course deeply disappointed, mainly because the car finally worked on this track. They could have fought for the win, especially Rosberg, who has been quick all weekend. They messed up on Saturday already when Mercedes didn't manage to bring their drivers onto an empty part of the track during Q3. And then they messed up again by not bringing in Rosberg soon enough for the pit stop. When he had a short period of time without any traffic, he posted one quickest lap after another, but when Webber rejoined the track right in front of him, he lost all that time again. So Mercedes and Ross Brawn have only to blame themselves here...

    2) Fcuk You FIA! Seriously, I thought the crooked days were over now that Mosley is gone, but FIA still oficially stands for Ferrari International Automobil (not that surprising with Todt at the helm, although I thought that he was better than this). First they look the other way when Massa crossed the line separating the pit lane which should have been punished, then they punish Schumacher for his awesome and completely LEGAL takeover right before the finish line. Obviously they don't care for real racing. It was the only maneuver worth watching in the entire race. And the rules are clear: There were green flags, the track was free, take-overs therefor allowed (rule 40.11 vs 40.13).

    3) Congratulations to Webber, he completely dominated the race and well deserved the victory.

    Now to some more general points:
    4) Another race proving the stupidity of the rules change. Granted, Monaco is the most difficult track to pass other cars, but this was once more ridiculous. I mean it took Alonso several laps to take over DiGrassi in his Virgin who was 5 seconds (!!!) slower than Alonso. With that kind of a speed difference, it shouldn't take more than one turn, let alone lap. And we didn't see any competitive take-overs, save for Schumacher's great maneuver right before the finish...

    5) Please bring back refueling! It's a disgrace that Alonso was able to practically finished the entire race on one set of tires. Coupled with the inability to pass other cars, this leads to a procession from start to finish. And we'll see this more and more: Teams will change tires as soon as possible and after that we won't see any racing and the only position changes will occur after driving errors or technical failures. It's a disgrace quite frankly. I've been watching F1 since the 1980s, but if the rules stay the way they are, I might just say goodbye...it's enough to watch the qualifying and the start of the race, no need to waste an additional 90 minutes on a parade...
     
  7. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Great points benztown... My advice to you... DVR it!!!! That's what I do, watch the qualys takes me less than an hour.. and if the race is boring, I'll just browse through it, watch the start, then pitstops and accidents, maybe a pass and then the last few laps.. If the race is boring, I'll be over it in less than 30 minutes...;)
     
  8. Pathogen

    Pathogen Member

    Jul 19, 2004
    Like you care.
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do this, as well. benz makes some great points. At least we can be hopeful that the rules will change since they've changed every year I've been watching this sport since 2005.
     
  9. EstebanLugo

    EstebanLugo Member

    Mar 18, 2007
    N of your DB
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
  10. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
  11. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    The Turkish GP is over and here are my thoughts:

    1) First of all, the most obvious issue: The crash between Vettel and Webber. There are differing opinions everywhere and here is my take. If they hadn't been on the same team, it would have been a regular crash where both drivers share the blame, Vettel for his aggressive move (but that's why we watch F1, isn't it), Webber for stubbornly refusing to give him any space.
    But they're not on different teams so in this case, the blame lies exclusivly with Webber. Why is that? Well, first of all, Vettel has been quicker all weekend, he was only unlucky to have a damaged car in Q3 on Saturday. Secondly, Webber was already on a fuel saving mode, so he was holding up Vettel even more. Vettel on the other hand was pressured by Hamilton. A Red Bull official said that Vettel had to move on Webber in that very spot, because otherwise Hamilton would have moved on Vettel.
    So Webber should have given Vettel some room to breathe, like Hamilton did with Button a few laps later in the race.
    Anyway, the RB team officials were apparently very angry with Webber (and his race engineer who didn't communicate all the facts) as could be seen in the interviews after the race.

    2) The biggest surprise was probably Ferrari which fell behind Mercedes this weekend, possibly even Renault. Very strange indeed, since at least Renault didn't bring any new parts to Turkey. So either Ferrari made a step backwards, or their car simply didn't work on that particular track...we'll know after the Canada race I guess...

    3) The big winner was of course McLaren with their 1-2 finish, even though they only inherited that because of the Vettel-Webber crash. But they were competitive throughout the entire race.

    4) This was probably the most exciting race in the dry this season. But again, it wasn't because of the new rules but in spite of them (I'm still hoping they take much of it back). It was because McLaren and Red Bull were very similar in pace, but their strengths were exactly opposite. Red Bull was quick in the middle sector where there were fast corners, McLaren was quick in the first and third sector with it's fast straights. The f-duct really made the difference here. And still, the only competitive take overs we've seen was right after the start when the McLarens took over the Mercedes thanks to their superior top speed.

    5) Red Bull brought their own f-duct system to Turkey, but they opted to not use it during the race as it apparently didn't really work. Mercedes also brought an f-duct system which didn't work either, but they still used it during the race...it's a different system though than that of all the others, since the Mercedes doesn't have a direct connection to the rear wing...I have no idea how it's supposed to work...

    6) Another team that hasn't really done very well was Williams. Especially on the straights they were extremely slow. Even the Virgin was quicker there (with the same Cosworth engine).

    7) Speaking of which, Virgin managed to bring both their cars to the finish line (albeit with some problems). Great for them, especially since they also seem to have closed the gap to Lotus in terms of speed.

    8) I'm very interested to see how the teams will do in Canada. Also a very fast course, but without any fast corners. It's always straight followed by chicane. It could benefit the McLarens IMHO, but it's really hard to tell. On the other hand, if Red Bull and the others get their own f-duct ready for Canada, McLaren might even fall back compared to Turkey.
    As for now, this is the Team ranking as I see it after Turkey:

    1) Red Bull
    2) McLaren
    ------------------------
    3) Mercedes
    4) Renault
    5) Ferrari
    ------------------------
    6) Force India
    7) Sauber
    8) Toro Rosso
    ------------------------
    9) Williams
    ------------------------
    10) Lotus
    11) Virgin
    ------------------------
    12) HRT
     
  12. kronic160

    kronic160 Member

    Apr 21, 2005
    Mars
    Great Canadian race, I just got back and it was better than I was expecting. Lots of passing and excitement! I was sitting in Section 1 directly infront of Lewis Hamiltons pit. (Sure cost a pretty penny but well worth the weekend):D

    I'm not a Ferrari fan but an Alonso fan. People keep forgetting about Alonso. Let me put it this way, no one was talking about kimi when he won the championship and I see it happening again. The spot light is on Hamilton, Button and the redbull's while Alonso is a win away from first.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Goes to show that Bridgestone's very conservative approach for their compounds is one of the main reasons that prevents races from being more exciting. It was a demonstration by the absurd since according to the Japanese tyre maker, they completely missed that race for they failed to provide durable rubber on a track where they had little info with slick tyres.

    One can understand why they don't want to see their product being destroyed on global TV but providing "control" tyres (since they're the sole ones) that last the whole GP as far as the harder compounds are concerned can't be the best way race wise given the current regulations.

    Ideally, we should have several available strategies but that's only possible if you're forced to trade the hard tyres at some point, or keep them but pay the price in terms of lap times. Also, the soft should not last but give a significant advantage in terms of speed. This way, there would be a lot of different options. Soft-Hard-Hard ; Soft-Hard-Soft ; Soft-Hard, etc...
     
  14. kronic160

    kronic160 Member

    Apr 21, 2005
    Mars
    These were some shots I took.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What? You mean F1 doesn't take a break for the World Cup? ;)
     
  16. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    My Gosh ! What a week end that was...The beginning of the World Cup, the Le Mans 24 hours race and the F1 race ! My eyes were sore after that ! :eek:
     
  17. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was in Paris a couple of weeks ago and, thought I don't speak French, I heard "Le Mans" a lot. Having not checked the schedule, I assumed it was the weekend I was there...
     
  18. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Sweet. It's always great to be at the race track.
     
  19. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Regarding the next race at Valencia:

    With the World Cup going on, I don't know whether I'll catch it, but I guess that I should, since this might be one of the best shots Mercedes has on achieving a good result this season.
    Apparently the track really suits them. Also, many teams will come with a copy of the Red Bull exhaust system so it might be a tight race. The exhaust design makes better use of the diffusor.

    The big favorite will be McLaren however. The track is similar to Canada where they dominated already while Red Bull has struggled to perform there.

    On the other hand, the other teams are using their improved F-Duct systems, so this might be the chance for Ferrari. If they get their technology right (F-Duct & exhaust) they might be a contender as well.
     
  20. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Well, apparently I was totally wrong with my assessment...Red Bull is a sstrong as ever, McLaren right behind them with Ferrari making up ground and Renault with an outsider chance...
    Mercedes on the other hand has made several steps into the wrong direction.
    The biggest positive surprise is Williams with an impressive performance in qualifying.
     
  21. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Red Bull gives you wiiiings !


    [​IMG]

    :D


    :eek:
     
  22. Pathogen

    Pathogen Member

    Jul 19, 2004
    Like you care.
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My kids loved that accident. My youngest particularly liked when Webber started throwing pieces of the car away from him. m :D
     
  23. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    You should show them these then. Everybody is OK.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4MtWgLazpg"]YouTube- Mercedes Le Mans 1999[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2M3CWIQrwc"]YouTube- Le Mans 1999 - Peter Dumbreck Blowover (Pescarolo Analysis)[/ame]

    Webber flipped twice that week end with the Mercedes but that wasn't caught on camera.

    There was a joke in the F1 paddock at Montreal when it happened. Norbert Haug, the Mercedes sport boss wasn't in Canada and some said that he missed his Mercedes flight to the F1 race ! :D

    And the very similar Yannick Dalmas crash on the Porsche GT1 at Petit Le Mans (Road Atlanta) the same year if I'm not mistaken.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M3NQeDzedk"]YouTube- Le Mans - Crash[/ame]
     
  24. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    In a few hours, the Circus will run its first few laps at the new Silverstone track.

    [​IMG]

    The right sweeping curve at Abbey should be interesting as cars will have to adapt their speed to the conditions. It should be flat out on a qualification trim but otherwise depending on the available grip and the weight load, the drivers will need to find the right approach.

    On the other hand, I'd be surprised if the new Arena section can offer more overtaking opportunities in the dry than the ones that already exist at Stowe and Vale mainly.

    I raced in GP4 and the time laps were around 1:34 so I guess that it should be somewhere in the 1:32 - 1:34 bracket given how 2010 cars are usually faster than the game.

    He he, maybe showers for Sunday !

    http://uk.weather.com/weather/10day-Silverstone-UKXX1916
     
  25. Flyin Ryan

    Flyin Ryan Member

    May 13, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's a "copy of the email" that led to Bruno Senna's dismissal from driving for Hispania at Silverstone.

    [​IMG]
     
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