It's not doom and gloom, and I am not a fan of England NT. I like to think that Mancini is aware of where the team needs improving and rejuvinating. It would be foolish to think the squad is perfect. Italy is in a slightly curious position whereby most of the squad will be fine for Qatar but there are some key positions which need filling because of age and lower quality. Selective, rather than significant, rejuvination is required over the next year or so.
Inter winning Serie A last season felt like a blip, and next season Juventus will continue their stranglehold on the league.
Roadrunner, You may be one of the most pessimistic glass half-empty people I've met on these boards. 34 games unbeaten and lifting the European Cup and we have to make all of those changes? I do agree we will have to make some tweaks, but Bonucci is playing in Qatar for sure (he already said so). Bastoni is a nice replacement for Chiellini if he continues to mature and grow. I agree Di Lorenzo needs an upgrade but Spinazzola should be back for Qatar on the left side. I also agree we have to keep looking for better prima punta options, but remember Zaniolo will be back and we can play a false 9 as needed or we have a year and half to see how Kean, Scamacca, Raspadori, and others develop. Just relax and enjoy this!
Yes, I am enjoying being European champions, it feels great. But I remember the complacency that set in after the WC win in 2006 and - the run to the euro2012 apart - the period between then and 2018 was generally disasterous.
i dont know about that. I think Insigne had a pretty good tournament. I still have Di Lorenzo starting next year.. thought he played well too overall ... hes solid defensively and probably had the dispossessions if i remember correctly. and even if not... Calabria should keep progressing. anybody but bellanova on the u21.. that guy is a donkey.
yikes.. id like to know what is top quality for you. From the mid 2000's to about 2010.. Luca Toni was one of the best strikers in the world for me. He was lights out at Palermo, Fiorentina and in the Bundesliga for Bayern until he ran into some injury troubles.
Toni never quite hit top form for the national side. Whereas Vieri was clearly absolutely clinical when he was on song for Italy. And the WC2002 happened.
Who said it's perfect? I also said that Chiellini and Bonucci won't be there, that Emerson is sub-par, that Di Lorenzo and Immobile are not good, etc. But there are many quality players, too. You are underestimating the Squadra Azzurra, and it's sad to see an Italian say so. People underestimated us for the Euro 2020... and we won it all. Have some faith!
Inter will probably deteriorate, but don't discount AC Milan so easily. We had lots of problems with Covid and injuries this past season, but we'll be improving. Maldini is bringing in some smart reinforcements.
Exactly. Roadrunner is extremely pessimistic. And I don't understand why he thinks Bonucci shouldn't be playing for the national team. He did very well in this tournament. Not as brilliantly as Chiellini, but he was very good in many occasions, with a few errors. Neither Di Lorenzo nor Florenzi are solutions for the right back position. Immobile is done, I don't want him back, and yes, we need to find a better prima punta. I disagree with Roadrunner in negatively assessing Insigne. Yes, he had some bad games, but some good ones too, and he has a high work rate that keeps defenses busy and opens spaces for other players, not to forget that sometimes he suddenly scores from outside the box in one of his signature curling shots. Chiesa was brilliant. Spinazzola will be back. Sure, we need tweaks but who doesn't? I think we are in very good shape for Qatar, with some upgrades.
Its not as black and white as you are making out. I said their values are inflated. But to suggest market values are meaningless? Fact of the matter is that England has just as many if not more players picked in the teams of the tournament, Capello literally said Harry Kane is the best centre forward in the world, look at the number of players they have in the Champions League final stages. They are a decent team and Italy from an individuals standpoint isn't exactly a star-studded line-up. I'm not saying England > Italy,, I'm saying Southgate shit the bed and should have had a more positive approach, before and after they scored in 2nd minute. Italy would still have prevailed but at least England would have given themselves the opportunity to win, as it was they barely put up a fight. England struggles to produce quality managers. Mancini may have started badly but he showed on multiple occasions that his ability to read the tactical situation during a game and to then make the required changes was second to none.
Who were people's player of the tournament? For me, it was Chiesa. In the crucial encounters when something special was needed and even in the final when we needed someone to look dangerous and provide a genuine goal threat he stood up. The guy is in the form of his life. Reminds me of his dad. When he was on, he was on. i was proven wrong as well on this player, I preferred Berardi and have been critical of Chiesa in the past. Credit where credit his due to his supporters esp. @gumbacicc who put up with a lot of shit to defend him.
I'll take Italy's players above England's players for most positions. I think we have MORE talent than England, not less. England have a lot of hype (as usual). We have winners. This idea of "oh, if only Southgate hadn't been outcoached by Mancini, England's talent would have prevailed" is BS. No, it wouldn't. If we get a complete Italy (bring back a healthy Spinazzola, Chiesa in full force, Verratti 100% recovered from his long inactivity) we'll beat England 9 times out of 10.
Chiesa was simply brilliant. The one time I feared that this final might escape us was when he got injured. Not counting on Spinazzola's energy, we depended on Chiesa's energy, and he almost scored twice. If he hadn't collected an injury, I think he would have scored and we wouldn't have needed overtime/penalty shootouts.
I didn't make it black and white but I prefer to judge a player by his on field contribution rather than what an agent got a team to pay for him. Southgate did go conservative with his defense but he thought their counter attack would actually work. It didn't and it started out in the best possible way. Italy didnt panic, and England continued to seek a second. They didn't automatically bunker right away. They didn't get a second and started to panick and slowly came undone. Our midfield shape was held up by Jorginho and Verratti incredibly well, allowing Emerson and Barella to get forward and disconnect their midfield from Kane. Even he had to start falling over a lot. This gave Chiesa more space and their two CBs had to worry about him more than they wanted. Anyone watching England in earlier games could see that they could get forward against weaker opponents (Ukraine) but as soon as they faced a decent midfield (even Croatia) or a team that could pushback (Denmark) they didn't have many ideas and Sterling and the best center forward in the world had to resort to diving. In Italy they faced both and what I'm saying is that if they did keep trying to seek goals after the 25th minute, this game ends in 90.
It is and you sure go to lengths trying to convince us that England has made some amazing accomplishments with fourth and second placings in the last two tournaments. Both times a superior midfield owned them. That's a straw man. I don't see anyone suggesting it. I bet everyone agrees with you. We all hope the team is at full strength in 17 months and players all play on merit and none of the other crap we've seen in this tournament. We would like to see a strong #9 emerge. Chiellini needs to be replaced. I don't think its unthinkable. Bonucci will be at his age now at that time and finding a partner for him to marshal wont be as big a feat as you make out. Romagnoli needs to find past seasons form. Mancini needs to get a few years of solid first team action under his belt and with Mourinho he will and Bastoni needs to continue as he has been playing. That gives three options. Ascerbi can be experience on the bench if Chiellini is out of the picture by then.
They didn't turn over players fast enough and faced some significant challenges. Some very bad coaching decisions had deleterious effects. Can you hear that with a Fauci accent? This is a different generation, with even some key players missing and others that need a few years of development under their belt. I get the impression they're still hungry and feel like they have a lot to still prove.
2021 is very different than 2006. That team had a core of players that were much older. ADP, Totti, Zambrotta, Cannavaro, Materazzi, Nesta, Inzaghi, Toni, etc were all about to enter the later years of their career. When you subtract Chiellini and Immobile, this team gets a lot younger. With the likes of Kean, Zaniolo, Pellegrini, Sensi, and Romagnoli (if he returns to form), you have the basis of another group of young players to add to this current group. Add in a great CT, and you have the recipe to make strong runs at WC22 and Euro24.
Even though he missed the last two games no other player made my jaw drop as often as Spinazzola. Chiesa's contributions later on were equal. For being as old as he is, and coming back from injury Chiellini gets a mention.