Euro 2016 Qualification Thread.

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Jul 14, 2014.

  1. nurvin

    nurvin Member

    Feb 11, 2011
    Let me say this isn't very good. 3-5-2 isn't a formation that can stand for a lot of time; if you play with 2 striker they must ben RvP and Huntelaar as Robben' s best position is as winger!
    I'm sure Hiddink will bring back the 4-3-3 thanks to god!
     
  2. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    Does anybody here want RVP to be the striker in 2016 ? Sooner we'll try others players, better it will be. RVP is without any contestation our best striker but he is seriously getting old and has always underperformed for NT during competitions. There is no way he should continue.

    It's better to try other players, even if they are considered less good, they can play with less pressure and still surprise. Look at Griezmann with France, would Ribery have done better ? Probably not.

    Ajax should absolutly use Zivko or Kishna as striker as soon as possible, and after few CL games, they'll be called with NT. October would be fine. It will be unfair to expect something big from them at the beginning, but the idea is just to work with a new striker for the future and 2016. Especially with the U21 euro next year which can also help them to progress. Going with RVP again would be the worst thing.

    Let's to give a chance to Castaignos for september games. If Schaken could have some good games with NT in qualifying, why not Castaignos ?
     
  3. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    Good and exceptional DM's don't always make great CB's. A mistake for a CB is much more costly while DM can probably make a dozen. Any wrong communication, mistake in offside trap and decide a game.

    Despite Nigel's defensive prowess, if no coach including LVG has not used him a CB even in a 3 CB formation, it is possibly because he is a dud there.

    Nigel does not loose possession but he is not the solution of dropping Vlaar as he has shown barely any creativity in the DM, so I highly doubt how much more he would add offensively as a CB.

    Vlaar, I never liked, but he had a brilliant World Cup. I am a big believer of justice and fairness. If someone wants to snatch that place, he should earn it when Vlaar has a couple of bad games. As of now even considering a highly protected 3 man Backline, Vlaar & De Vrij both have done exceptionally and deserve to start for a considerable stretch of matches.

    We should not be in a fantasy where just because a kid has played well at kindergarden level, he should be selected.

    I would be glad if Kongolo or Veltman snatch that place of the basis of performance. I have always believed in having a pool of 30 players who can fight among themselves and earn their spot
     
    MrOranjeBal repped this.
  4. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands

    I was turned off by him as a result of his interview after the Brazil game. Came across as small minded and being busy with himself (vs Pierre) rather than the team.

    RVP checking out after the group phase is not only on him, but also van Gaal. I remember this forum turning against RvP with the CR match, where he failed to convert even a simple tap in. Denmark Euro 2012 level. LvG kept trusting him and did not react properly after clear signs. That is why van Gaal does not go without blame either. RvP was also just not fit. Out of shape. A key selection criteria for the van Gaal's tenure as NT coach.

    I am all for giving less gifted players a chance, just to shake things up. It's just that I do not want to end up with Castaignos playing on Orange. If RvP looked graceless in his post match interview, Castaignos brings things to a whole new level. Besides talking like a wannebee ultimate street thug, having an hopelessly wrong self image, he is also just a poor footballer. Both first touch and converting chances. His speed is not even something to write home about. It's oke, but he is not as fast as Lens for example. Castaignos is a player I am allergic to.

    That being said, I understand he would fit in the system we are about to play. Hiddink is happy with the way van Gaal played at the WC and we will see more of it under his leadership. I am not sure about the exact system, what is clear to me though is that Netherlands will play reaction football. That opens the door for a Castaignos, being a hard working (ball chasing) counter striker.

    I just have a hard time digesting a new low with the introduction of such a player after a WC where we saw a Dutch NT that has arguably at it's poorest "ever" in the ball possession phase. Netherlands vs Australia was an embarrassment. So for me rather more footballers in the team. Kishna and El Ghazi at Ajax might emerge. Lens has some skill. RvP did become top scorer in UEFA qualification this last qualification campaign.


    Anyway, a warm welcome and good to see you posting here. Cheers.
     
  5. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Though has Robben ever been better at a tournament as in this WC?
     
  6. nurvin

    nurvin Member

    Feb 11, 2011
    Robben was the best player of the tournament imho, but he was usually also on the wing despite being officially a striker in the formation, do you remember the match against mexico?
    I would better try van Persie on the wing as he used to be during his early carreer than Robben as striker.
    This is the formation that i would choose for the beginning of the qualifiers:
    [​IMG]

    Then if some young players will improve they can replace some of them such as Hendrix for Vlaar etc.
     
  7. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands

    I just think saying that Robben from the wing is better as him as a striker in a 2 striker setup is a bold statement after this WC. The fact that he is good on the wing or as a striker is testament of how good a player he is. Either Huntelaar or RvP as striker do not come close to Robben as a striker in a system where we create our own space. We will continue with this reaction football, as Hiddink already said we would. Robben in this setup is also not a real striker, he is more of a free striker. Can go to the wing or through middle. He is just given more space to be the genius he is.

    RvP on the wing has never really worked for me and will certainly not work anymore. He has always lacked that fifth gear of speed. Maybe even that fourth gear of speed. Also, RvP has become stiff and even fearful almost to take people on 1 vs 1. When he is at the side of the 18 yard box he is able to feint shoot and then get past a player to cross or track back, but a real 1 vs 1 from deeper position to burst past defenses is out of the question these days. He has become stiff and slow. He is good now in receiving the ball with the back to the opposition goal and hold things up. He is now quite simply a striker. Even better to play with Depay on the wing than RvP.
     
  8. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    I agree. There is also something that makes me nervous about him, it's his fear to be tackled. He is always tracking back on his first touch, and if he sees that there is no danger, then he would eventually go forward. But he is definitly not the kind of Eto'o who would directly accelerate on his first touch.

    Of course all that is probably a reaction due to his previous injuries, the tackles he was victim of...
     
  9. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Given his history with injuries and the wear and tear on his body I will not be surprised if he is not on the roster for the Euros.

    Mark this post, you read it here first.;)
     
  10. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    I hope Hiddink and Blind will not select players from the 83/84 generation during the qualifiers. They have to work for both 2016 and 2018.

    Van Persie, Sneijder and Van der Vaart are already too old and shouldn't wear the oranje shirt anymore. They had to deal with many injuries in the past and won't shine coming years. I give one year to VDV before to come back to Holland or sign to Qatar or a russian sub destination. I give two years to RVP and Sneijder.

    I have the feeling Robben and Nigel can stay a bit longer but it would be good to try to work without them. I see them as last resort, like Zidane had to come back for France in 2006. But if we can perform good without them and with young players instead, it would be better. Kuyt can also be a last resort as RB.

    About the 86/88 generation, I'm really sceptical. De Guzman and Lens flopped during the WC in my opinion, I would not select them anymore as long as they don't show something big with their clubs. Afellay, Elia, Van der Wiel also have to prove much to come back.

    I'd like Hiddink and Blind to work and give priority to players born between 90 and 96. Probably it won't be easy to play against Czech Republic and Turkey with youngsters, Van Basten could do it good in 2005 but he had better players in his hands. I still see most of people here mentionning RVP, Robben and Sneijder in their line-up, but what's the aim ? If those guys couldn't lead Holland to any cup during their best years, they probably won't do it when being 33. Thanks for the service but it's time to turn over, even if the beginning will probably be hard.
     
  11. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Oke guys, the first preliminary squad from Hiddink has come in:

    Keepers:

    1. Jasper Cillessen (Ajax),
    2. Tim Krul (Newcastle United),
    3. Michel Vorm (Tottenham Hotspur),
    4. Jeroen Zoet (PSV)

    Defense:

    1. Daley Blind (Ajax),
    2. Joël Veltman (Ajax),
    3. Daryl Janmaat (Newcastle United),
    4. Bruno Martins Indi (FC Porto),
    5. Erik Pieters (Stoke City),
    6. Paul Verhaegh (FC Augsburg),
    7. Ron Vlaar (Aston Villa),
    8. Stefan de Vrij (Lazio),
    9. Gregory van der Wiel (Paris Saint-Germain)

    Midfield:

    1. Jordy Clasie (Feyenoord),
    2. Leroy Fer (Queens Park Rangers),
    3. Nigel de Jong (AC Milan),
    4. Wesley Sneijder (Galatasaray),
    5. Rafael van der Vaart (Hamburger SV),
    6. Georginio Wijnaldum (PSV)

    Attack:

    1. Memphis Depay (PSV),
    2. Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (Schalke 04),
    3. Dirk Kuyt (Fenerbahçe),
    4. Jeremain Lens (Dynamo Kiev),
    5. Robbin van Persie (Manchester United)
    6. Arjen Robben (Bayern München).
     
  12. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #87 DRB300, Aug 20, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
    Some points to cover:


    • Van der Wiel got injured recently. The game is September the 4th. I wonder if his selection means that his injury will be over soon or that the staff is sleeping. Might also be a signal, though I rather have players on this list that can really play and make the final squad.
    • De Guzmans absence catches the eye. I am not aware of an injury. So in that case he just did not make it. They might have skipped on 1 right back less and add him. He can play 8, 10 and is good with standard situations. However the choice went to Fer+Wijnaldum and Sneijder+vdV. I don't want to see Fer in the middle of the park. He must be used in a commuting role up the field. If he gets involved in one of the build up phases, things slow down. His handling speed is that of a pancake.
    • Kuyt's selection screams for a young up and comer to rise to the occasion. Kuyt had his value in a wing back role at the WC, but as an attacker we really have to move on from him. I am not sure how Hiddink sees him. Only as a striker anymore or even as a winger. He has no real burst of pace anymore. Elia, Promes, Afellay, Boëtius, Kishna, El Ghazi, Bilal, Narsingh, Locadia .... who is going to step up and grab this spot?
    • Also looks like Virgil van Dijk has to move to another competition to get a look in. He never made it into a preliminary squad, let alone final squad. Either that, or they just don't deem him good enough.
    • Pieters is back.
     
  13. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Maybe de Guzman's absence was because of the unsettled club situation. I see that he has just signed with Napoli for four years. Since he will possibly be in CL football this season this will be a good thing.
     
  14. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Could be, though Fer just moved to QPR as well.
     
  15. Abhirup

    Abhirup Member

    Nov 26, 2013
    Kolkata
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    #91 Abhirup, Aug 20, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
    Am I the only person who's disappointed with this squad selection?
    Why is Hiddink still calling up Kuyt, Huntelaar and Lens?? I have immense respect for Duracell Dirkie but tbh, it's time to move forward and give our talented youngsters a chance to cement their places in the NT.
    Boetius, Kishna and Promes should have been called up.
    If I were Hiddink, I'd play a front three of Depay-RVP-Robben in the first half against Italy. Then, in the second, I'd replace the three of 'em with Kishna, Promes and Boetius respectively. The game against the Azzuris should provide a perfect platform for the coaching staff to experiment before getting down to some serious business against the Czechs.
    Let Kishna develop as a striker for the NT cause we need to find a replacement of RVP as soon as possible...
    Just my 2 cents...
     
  16. onzie77

    onzie77 Member

    May 18, 2012
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    im worried we have the return of the 442 with this i would not want to see that,

    -----------------rvp----huntelaar-------
    ----depay-------------------------robben
    ------------ndj--------blind------------
    pieters----bmi-----vlaar-----janmaat
    ------------------------------------------
    ------------------krul-------------------
     
  17. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    I am guessing this selection is taken into the account that the U-21 team is facing two crucial matches in early September to qualify for the Euro U-21 tournament. Once Jong Oranje wrap up their qualification, I'd (like to) think there will be a number of youngster who will get promoted, and the regeneration process can officially begin.
     
  18. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Seriously? Kishna, while full of promise, has not even demonstrated much for the Ajax first team. When he starts to score goals then he should get some consideration for the NT but not now.
     
  19. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    Huntelaar is of the same are as RVP, possibly younger and since RVP has been possibly the biggest flop ST for Oranje destroying more than a generation, Hunter surely is a much better ST than him.

    Kishna, Promes are all too raw and don't have Oranje Quality. I would rather try Wijnaldum as RW and slot in a Ziyech or a Van Ginkel.

    Players will get a chance when the earn it. At this point Kishna is not even good enough for the U-31 which is why he was not selected there. Lens is also 27-28 odd. So although he did not do well recently, he is not old enough to discarded.

    I am dissapointed due to Kongolo's omission and Kuyt's selection though.
     
  20. nurvin

    nurvin Member

    Feb 11, 2011
    Personally I'm quite satisfied with this selection. I already like Guus!
     
  21. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    LOL...whats U-31?? Is that like a pubteam?? :D
     
  22. Sam_TO

    Sam_TO Member

    May 14, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    As we've seen before prelim squads can (and will) always change.

    I'm glad Hiddink called up Pieters after he was ignored during LvG's entire tenure.

    I would like to see Afellay given a call-up. I'm assuming he'll start for Olympiakos, or be a key player off the bench. Kuyt is a bit of a surprise inclusion, although it could just be one of those courtesy call-ups since he's 3 caps away from tying van Bronckhorst all-time. Likewise with van der Vaart.

    So yeah I'd take out Vorm, van der Wiel, & Lens, and put in Afellay instead. I'd also swap BMI with Rekik (BMI was awful throughout the WC, and Rekik has much more upside than him.)

    Other than that, I think Hiddink was pretty bang on here.
     
  23. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    #99 Laurent75, Aug 20, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
    That's just his first selection and he didn't want to take risks. I regret that he kept calling Sneijder, Verhaegh, VDV and Van Persie though. Those players have no future in NT, sooner you'll let them, sooner you'll prepare the future generation. The experienced players that should lead the group are : Vlaar, Robben and eventually Kuyt and Nigel as those seem to have more chances to play 2016 than the rest. I hope Kuyt to play in a more defensive spot with his club, I feel this guy can go till 2018 being a RB, stamina isn't his problem.

    I really have the feeling that VP will flop with Man U this year, I see him leaving them next summer. Sneijder and VDV will also leave their clubs I guess. All three will probably move to Turkey, Greece or Russia for one or two years to get a bit more of money, and return to Holland after. I really wish Hiddink will have the balls to stop with them.
     
  24. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands

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