So you think being able to say "I hate homosexuals" at work is a good thing? This is why Eastern Europe is so backward compared to the west when it comes to civility and discrimination. I guess being able to say "I hate blacks" is tolerated at work too. Viera lived in London for many years, and he didn't feel any hostility. Because there are many black people in London. In Warsaw he feels like he is stared at and treated with suspicion more than in England or France. This is obviously a fact. I understand Eastern Europe has no colonial connection with Africa and is mostly ignorant of black cultures and people. However that's no excuse for racial abuse.
Sorry, this statement is incredibly arrogant, not to mention silly. Political correctness =/= level of 'tolerance' in a nation. So because some people somewhere in Warsaw look at a black man oddly, that is abuse? You have no basis on which to determine what is prejudice and what isn't. I'm going to bet you think that the elections of Godson and Munyama 'dont count' whatever your arbitrary standards are. There are blacks in Poland. There are blacks in England, far more than Poland. There are race riots in England, yet by your logic since England is so superior in tolerance, there should have at least been at least violence and deaths of the blacks that do exist in Poland by now, on a far worse level than has ever happened in England or Western Europe. It's not like they'd be hard to find if they are such a small minority, right? The dresiarze should have went to town on them already! Not to mention you make a sweeping conclusion about an entire country from parsing one single comment, and you wish to discuss 'civility and discrimination'? I am perfectly willing to realize there is racism in Poland, and I can understand your concerns as you are looking at this from the lens of the UK, but that acknowledgement proves little the alleged superiority of Western Europe.
lol, you forgot to mention why there's so many black people in London I'd say that's where hypocrisy and political correctness met together. We cherish the freedom of speech in Poland like we always did. We only stand against that when it comes into our homes uninvited... Do what you want but do that privately. That's how it's viewed here if you misunderstood me. If my friend would say he's gay unexpectedly I'd go with him for a beer like we used to earlier I think you misunderstood me in that matter.
Here is some info on the events so far: http://ceefootball.wordpress.com/2012/06/09/explaining-yesterdays-off-field-events/
You mean these race riots (actually a little more complicated than race, but anyway ...)? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14449675 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14436529 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14595102 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14931987 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14504294 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14436499 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14519595 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-14515632 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16265551 etc., etc. Bye -- thanks for joining us.
I'm not sure how to handle the situation, but denial isn't the answer. I've seen it myself, not in Poland, but in Eastern Europe. I spend some time in Bulgaria and my fiance having been brought up in the Levski Sofia gymnastics program is also a big Levski Sofia soccer fan, along with her family of course. Anyway, long story short, I've been to two Levski games and a NT game in Sofia, and in one of the Levski games and the NT game we both heard monkey noises as well as a number of fans yelling "negro" at the pitch. I know much like in South America that word is commonly just used to describe the color black, but this isn't the dark ages, most people have internet access and the majority of young people we run into speak English and are well aware of western culture and how that term is perceived elsewhere, and it was clear in the way they were chanting it it was meant in a racial manner. Also, when England played there last Sept, there were a number of reports of a few of their black players, namely Ashley Young being the focus of racial chants. My fiance's father said not too long ago they were making monkey noises at their own NT player, a guy from Brazil who received citizenship. It exists, it's ignorance, and something needs to be done. With social media where it is today and the number of people at least understanding some English these countries there aren't many, if any excuses for the behavior.
The issue of racism for the British people is more interesting than football. Yesterday, the French national team walked in the downtown of Donetsk. Players were shopping in stores, handed out autographs to fans ... They didn't see racists, nazi or hooligans... We are already fed up with your fear of racism. In Shakhtar Donetsk 60% of the players - black Brazilians. We love them! Your fear left you at home... After your medias hysteria (BBC, SKY-SPORT) a lot of Ukrainians will support French team in that game...
Both teams have played in Ukraine. No racism was found then (although the shooting of the flairs was very excessive for the most recent English experience in Ukraine)
1. This Spanish fan had been missing MORE THAN A MONTH. So, this is just a murder, just like million of other murders. it is not connected to football or Euro2012. Three suspects had been arrested. 2. You say "Welcome to Ukraine" and proceed to post a video from Poland. You do not see a problem with that?
Are you trying to associate Poland with Central Europe? I thought Poland was Eastern Europe. After all, since the geographic center of Europe IS in Ukraine, how are you trying to disassociate one (Poland) from another (Ukraine). Just trying to make your Math come out?
So it was a series of race riots that featured all races? Just because you google a phrase doesn't make it so, it just leads you to people who are as confused as you are. You only have to look at a few pictures taken of the riots to see that it was very much multicultural.
Let me get this straight now. Because multiple races were involved, it doesn`t mean there are race problems within the UK. Interesting point of view So next time they don`t want people to connect their acts to racism, all those ultras only must seek for people of another race, and jointly together, go and kick the shit out of a common hated race.
I can't believe the number of replies to a thread called Fiasco in a tournament which is only a few days old. Even reporters are now saying there is nothing to report as far as major incidents off the pitch are concerned. I think I will reserve my opinion (rather than that of a sensationalist popular media or governments doing a pretty good job screwing their own country), until I return home and hopefully it will be to start a thread 'Euro 2012 .... What a success'
Yep. The UK has absolutely no problems with racism or xenophobia. They love and adore their Eastern European immigrants and Middle Eastern as well. They are a model and example to the rest of the 3rd world countries on how to deal with their race problems, countries like USA, All of Eastern Europe, Eurasia, Asia etc. have a lot to learn on acceptance and how to get along.
This thread is just Embarassing. The British media set the agenda that this tournament would be about racism before it starts and now it seems a good number of British fans (not all thankfully) are pulling out their colonial mentality from the closet. When you precondition your mind it affects the way you think and perceive the world. When a person is convinced by media reports and lack of real world experience to think black people are criminals (as many ignorant Americans do) you begin to look at all black people as criminal and treat them as such. Whether its locking your car door or crossing the street. If you look for it you will find it. Here's a thought for Patrick vieira, do you think people are staring at you because you are Patrick vieira, a famous football player? Jond, not to pick on you, but you can't paint such a wide brush across eastern Europe. Bulgaria and Ukraine have very little in common culturally. Ukrainians and Russians are extremely close and yet attitudes in the two countries are dramatically different when it comes to race.
Can you name a country with better race relations? Nobody said there is no racism in the UK. However it's a damn sight better than most countries for minorities. England took massive strides to get rid of it in society and football. Unlike other nations and UEFA, FIFA, Blatter and Platini who desperatly try to sweep it under the carpet or say "Shake hands" or claim "They weren't Nazi salutes, they were pointing to their mothers" I'd rather have a country that overreacts to racist incidents than turns a blind eye.
With all due respect, I didn't comment on racism in Poland or Ukraine. I only passed on what I myself have witnessed and had been told by my fiance's dad who has witnessed it as well, but only pertaining to Bulgaria. Obviously though racism exists in some of these other Eastern European countries, but I never said it was better or worse than anywhere else or singled out any of those countries. Simply said there aren't excuses for racist attitudes, at least publicly, this day in age, whether in Bulgaria, Ukraine, England or Texas for that matter, and that it should be stamped out of football, but also said I didn't know how to go about doing that. I'm seeing a few people who are too far extreme on both sides. Those acting like it's so bad you shouldn't risk traveling to those part of the world,and others saying it just doesn't exist. The answer is somewhere inbetween, where it does exist but isn't as bad as the media portrays it to be.
vierra i remember something similar happening in france to etto who went to jewelry store and treated like criminal. so it is ok to be racist in france , england all of the w. europe but it is not in e. europe.
I have just come across this discussion... and the voice from Poland might be interesting for someone. Maybe the racism issue in UK is just the smoke barrier against the poor state of English team? For now I don't feel like living in racist country... there is not so many black people and they are kinda new, so citizens want to host them even better. Of course there is always the margin of haters but they are everywhere and its not normal. Although the number of black Polish citizens is low we have one in parliament. About the idiots on stadium in Cracow: what I know it has nothing to racism, there is kinda pay back. Last year Dutch Twente club didn't let the Wisła fans in on stadium despite they had tickets... This is the reason of those stupid behaviour on training. Enjoy the Championships!
Funny, just yesterday I was at the Spain vs Italy and happened to hear some racist chants at the stadium when Balotelli made a bad play or did something controversial. It was a small group on the second tier of the blue stand, very close to where I was seating. In fairness to the vast majority of Spanish fans, they themselves tried to shut those ones who where doing it. Today, well known sports Newspaper AS, said wrote that the english media was lying and that those chants never happened.
AS sound pretty naieve. I don't know what Marca think. Some Russian fans were monkey chanting to the Czech player although I didn't hear it on TV.
Lots of them. Most countries also have their issues on the subject, but they don`t result as meaningful for their daily rutine of usual living, whilst in the UK, everyday, new racism issues appear (or diferent forms of bigotry, as well). Even on things thought that were left in the past. Most of the times in the UK, people back there live on denial of the existence of the problem within their own frontiers, and many times in order to not look at their own internal problems, they prefer to go and look at them in others frontiers. Yes, the UK has taken huge strides against racism, but these have had to be massive, since their problems on the issue were huge (lots bigger than the same issues in other countries). You see lots of aceptance on blacks, nowdays (I give you that), but UK`s racism issues are not only on blacks, but also on other races, and the level of tolerance (which is another completely diferent issue) of these other minorities is very far from disappearing. And as blacks acceptance have enhanced, new issues have also appeared on these newly accepted UK residents, in relation to other minorities as well. Multiculturalism in the UK is true, but what you most see is that diferent cultures within the UK, is that they almost never mix within themselves (as what you see in other countries, who are lots of steps ahead of the UK in their own mega-battle against racism), and most of the times they live separate within each other. So you really haven`t solved the whole problem, as issues will always appear among the diferent groups, because deep within themselves, they are completely diferent people trying to live together in a common soil. Well good for you. But, I believe you should worry more on the issues where your own country turns a blind eye, in itself first, before on what happens in other places.
Can you actually NAME a country less racist than England? I would bet anything I can disprove that. There is not a country on earth less discriminatory than England towards minorties. If England has a racism problem worse than another country, why do people from all over the world flock to England? You cannot walk 30 seconds without seeing someone from Eastern Europe, Asia or Africa in London. Why are English club teams NEVER fined for racist chanting in European matches? Why does Patrick Viera feel safe in England? The only significant group who don't mix much are SOME muslims. At work, school and in public, everyone mixes. Try visiting East London where I live, where the Olympics are. You will see nothing but mixing.