News: Euro 2012 Politics, Crowd Trouble, etc

Discussion in 'Euro 2012' started by WhiteStar Warriors, Apr 30, 2012.

  1. Sian

    Sian Member

    Dec 4, 2011
    I think there are several things playing in

    Europe have several nations, and specially in the east theres groups thats very nationalistic, while US is one (semi)correrent nation.

    In europe being militant will push you out of the mainstream, and if you want to follow your militant leanings you're all but forced into illegal stuff, whereas in US its 'common' to have guns on your person in public settings, and its completely normal to be interested in going onto the shooting range, which at best make people weary in Europe unless you're a hunter with a license.

    US have a much more recent story of racial issues between black and whites, whereas it haven't (argubly untill recent times, but in a different way) been a issue in Europe at all.

    Blacks are a big minority in US whereas its a much smaller, and less vocal statistical group in europe.

    As for support sections ... other than soccer, and in the balkans team handball (but again, thats because right-wing use that as a platform there), fans of different teams aren't segregated
     
    Typhaon repped this.
  2. el-topo

    el-topo New Member

    May 29, 2012
    Donetsk
    Club:
    FC Shakhtar Donetsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Video from Poland with russians fans .... Are there no murders in West Europe? I can also post links of criminal chronicle of the European countries on this website. Will this mean that I should not go there? If you are afraid of Ukraine, then you are not forced to go there.
     
  3. ApoJapo

    ApoJapo Member

    Jun 2, 2004
    You must not trivialize the things that has recently happend already during this European campaign. Also people who are prejudiced because they are from Poland/Ukraine must admit recent events are not a very good start...
    By organizing such a big event people tend to beleive it will be save.
     
  4. el-topo

    el-topo New Member

    May 29, 2012
    Donetsk
    Club:
    FC Shakhtar Donetsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    It's old statistic...but you can compare Ukraine with other countries...

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes

    and this more earliest
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
     
  5. el-topo

    el-topo New Member

    May 29, 2012
    Donetsk
    Club:
    FC Shakhtar Donetsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
  6. ApoJapo

    ApoJapo Member

    Jun 2, 2004
    Those are 2 different statistics, the first shows crimes and the second shows homicides. The crime number doesn't say much....only registered crime is taken into acount. The Ukraine has a population of 45 miljon with 0.5 mil of crimes.... The UK has a pop of 62 miljon with 6.5 mil of crimes...

    DEFINITION: Note: Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence

    The number of homicides are a much better indicator although it doesn't show the number for each country

    Poland is Central Europe
    Ukraine is Eastern Europe
    West and Central Europe 1.5 in the year 2004 1.2 in the year 2010
    East Europe 15 in the year 2004 7 in the year 2010

    Also, it is more the aversion to everything that is foreign in Poland and the Ukraine than the crime/homicides numbers that are/will causing the problems.
     
  7. el-topo

    el-topo New Member

    May 29, 2012
    Donetsk
    Club:
    FC Shakhtar Donetsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    I think you stayed at home and try to find the reasons of this.
    Belive me, the fans who are visiting our countries now joying cheap beer, good food and see hospitable ukrainian/ polish citizens.
     
  8. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Fail logic much?

    Someone called Thailand a III world country. I just pointed out that it is a richer and more developed country than Ukraine.
     
  9. el-topo

    el-topo New Member

    May 29, 2012
    Donetsk
    Club:
    FC Shakhtar Donetsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
  10. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

    Apr 23, 2010
    Poland
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    It only happened to be cought on tape by a Pole who was also watching the game. He said that stewards grabbed one of the Russian supporter who supposedly threw a flare on the pitch in the first half (referee Webb stopped the game after that, remember?). Those thugs followed them to the esplanade and attacked them there. They of course took off their shirts and some put hoods on their heads (this means that they were 'proffesional'). And yes, they were Russian. This was called a 'minor incident' by organisers, the only one that night at the stadium and because of that, unfortunately, police wasn't called there and those bandits fled the stadium freely. But I hope few of them were indentified and caught later (or will be).
     
  11. Typhaon

    Typhaon Member

    Nov 2, 2009
    ^That sounds pretty good.

    I think it's easy to mistake a "lack of racial problems" for being "a lack of people who are racist/xenophobic/etc." It's very easy to appear one way, when a nation is very homogenous... the minority population is small... and people in the majority feel less "threatened."

    It's not a perfect comparison by any means - but I think places in E. Europe are not so dislike certain southern states in the USA, around the mid 60's.

    I don't get the attack on the steward.... where is security!?!? If that was in the USA those guys would be getting swarmed by security, cops... have their butts tasered and be all over Youtube crying to their moms.
     
  12. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

    Apr 23, 2010
    Poland
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    UEFA took over the stadiums and they are responsible for security during the games. Police works outside of the stadiums but could intervene if organisers call them. This time they weren't called which is a shame. Police would quickly track them down and arrest.
     
  13. Typhaon

    Typhaon Member

    Nov 2, 2009
    That makes very little sense. Not saying isn't true... but that's a major failure.

    Imagine a CONCACAF tournament in Washington DC - with a couple of guys from Costa Rica, Antigua and Canada providing security... while the DC police sit outside? No way.
     
  14. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

    Apr 23, 2010
    Poland
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    That's not a failure. Those things work. Until few blockheads in an organised pack are around to start the fight...
     
  15. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

    Apr 23, 2010
    Poland
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    Do you know what was the background of that incident? What happened in Madrid after Widzew Łódź hools went to support CSKA??? Those 'foreigners' were some CSKA ultras who's been in Łódź as Widzew ultras invited few of them to stay there during Euros. No one of them was even punched...

    The Polish police already identified 12 Russian supporters from Wrocław. Their photos are already handed to Russian spotters, police patrols and Polish Border Guard. Before the game started four Russian supporters were cought in the city center as they demolished the restaurant. Photos are here: http://kontakt24.tvn.pl/temat,pijani-rosjanie-rozrabiali-we-wroclawiu,47966,html?categoryId=496
    Small incidents, I don't know why those are stupid acts done by few drunk retards are being so much talked in English press (actually only one - The Daily Mail...).
     
  16. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was in Boston a few days ago and while I was downtown four people were stabbed.


    Don't ever go to Boston.
     
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  17. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    3rd world countries is a term that applies to non aligned states in the cold war. It's no longer relevant despite its misuse.
     
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  18. thepremierleague

    Mar 14, 2001
    London
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The real test will be when France and England play Ukraine. Both teams have a lot of black or mixed players.

    If Ukraine are losing in either game, we will see if the monkey chants start.

    That will tell us if the racism issue has been addressed in the stadiums.
     
  19. druzynnik

    druzynnik New Member

    Mar 15, 2012
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it is scaremongering and hypocrisy on the part of the UK press.
    The tickets for Poland and Ukraine were given via lottery. The Dutch practice squad was open to the general public. Putting aside that the monkey chants were only alleged, we do not know how many in the crowd were doing it if at all. But monkey chants represent an unstoppable horror that will destroy this tournament? Really?

    But this is irrelevant in the end. Those who wish to spread guilt by association should first look at their own country and see how many monkey chants and bananas have been tossed in their stadium. There is plenty of blame to go around, and that blame is pointed at a minority of hooligan idiots that do not speak for the football fans of a nation.
     
  20. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    You don't hear monkey chants or see bananas being thown in British grounds.

    The dismissing of the actions of these idiots is actually more damning than the actions themselves to a degree.
     
  21. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

    Apr 23, 2010
    Poland
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    But that's OK to sing the songs about Park who eats your dog, right?
     
  22. thepremierleague

    Mar 14, 2001
    London
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That's pretty much how Eastern Europe deals with the issue. Denial and deflection.

    I still find it amazing that countries condemned by British media seriously try and claim England is just as racist.

    Some even seriously try and claim England still has a big hooligan problem.
     
  23. druzynnik

    druzynnik New Member

    Mar 15, 2012
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kinda putting words in my mouth here.

    Did I say they should be dismissed? The fact that there are sanctions in the UK does not magically cure the racist behavior of fans in the UK either. You cannot legislate out racism, you can only punish it to the extent that the press can feel good about themselves.

    But it's still there. It is a fantasy to pretend that racism is unknown in England or substantially 'better' than European nations. You have wool over your eyes if you ignore what goes on.
     
  24. Polseb

    Polseb Member

    Jun 9, 2006
    New York
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Poland
    Oh yes I am. You Brits can deny up and down left and right those weren't race riots. But when you type this string: "London Race Riots" into Google, please tell me how many hits do you get and what day will the results point to? BBC is the only news publication missing from that result list which is quite clever. You know just like here in America whenever 10 or more blacks get arrested in Detroit it's always a race riot on every newspaper of the world showing how horrible the USA is.

    Anyways I'm done talking about this crap, point is, every single country in the world has race problems, it is something that will never be solved and will always be heated and fragile argument.
     
  25. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

    Apr 23, 2010
    Poland
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    West of Europe is only politically correct, nothing more. Some foreigners were surprised that you could say 'I hate homsexuals' to a friend in work and that's all - no one will accuse you of any kind of discrimination.

    Patrick Viera about his stay in Warsaw - 'Many people were looking at me suspiciously. I wasn't feeling comfortable on the streets of Warsaw.' He made himself even dumber than he realy is. If you look Mr Vieira - it's wrong. If you won't - it's racist as well... Where the hell you find a balance on London streets?
     

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