1. FWIW (he gingerly stuck his head into the midst of the crossfire), I think Knave offered a genuine attempt to try and head off the 1 millionth debate on this board about Marco Etcheverry. 2. One point (agree or disagree if you will) that no-one has touched on is Wynalda's claim that the league itself has changed. As Waldo has correctly pointed out, the league has gotten much more physical (and that's not a codeword for "dirty"). A midfielder who ran a lot and had a decent workrate used to be an annomally in this league. Now there are a bunch of guys who run for 90 minutes and every team puts forth a lot of effort. And the marking is much closer, much more aggressive. And the speed that the league plays at isn't a walk any more. When you combine all of that with more games played on artificial surfaces (which despite the official word, I can tell you that arthritic knees don't like the stuff), and the league is a very different place now than it was 5 years ago. I'm not arguing better or worse, but it is different. For one hint of how these differences matter, look at one all-star game at one RFK on a waterlogged turf--which slowed down the pace, forced looser marking and made it harder for people to come in aggressively on the tackle. One Marco Antonio Etcheverry was the MVP of said match. 3. I may not always agree with Wynalda but I always think that he'll speak his mind think he's willing to not just repeat pat, politically correct stuff. And, while Wynalda wasn't the player Etcheverry was (when both were in their prime), it does no-one anygood to bash Wynalda in that regard. He was the first American to make a real impact in Germany, be team captain of a Bundesliga side, he's scored more goals in the WC than Marco has (I don't mean that as a slam, only that Waldo has left his mark), had a sterling performance in the 95 Copa and is a legitimate pioneer in American pro soccer. Agree or disagree with his perspective but the attacks on him as a player are irrelevant to this matter.
"I'm not giving them hell. I'm just telling the truth and they THINK I'm giving them hell." -- Harry Truman. To suggest that Wynalda is saying what he is out of jealousy for things that happened five years ago seems kinda silly. Has anyone else been pleasantly surprised by him as a columnist? I think he's doing a great job (which is a surprise).
Did any of you actually read the article? I didn't think it was an attack or out-of-line; and Wynalda even admits to having been in same situation at the end of his career, so where do the charges of hypocrisy come in? It's stupid ass threads like this that explain why I no longer list DC United as a team I follow on my profile--I don't want to be associated with this forum unnecessarily. I pop in from time to time to find out news I may have missed, hear analysis of games I couldn't attend, etc. etc. When I read stuff like Chico scolding someone for daring to have an opinion without attending every game, I usually just roll my eyes and move on. Holy s***, do you people realize how many neophytes and beginning soccer fans you probably run off with all this? I give up. I was going to go on, and try to explain to you guys why I feel you are not doing the team you leave any favors by erecting such high barriers against new fans in the most visible and popular fan forum on the web. But it wouldn't matter--none of you care what outsiders (outsiders to your little clique, that is--I'm a soccer/DC United fan even without your little approval) think, so why bother? Thank God RFK is big enough so I can go to the games and safetly avoid you all. PS Wynalda's right--Etch is too damn slow, his passing sucks, and he should have retired a year or two ago. He is also the greatest player in the history of MLS. These are not mutually exclusive statements, McOwen.
What are we going to talk about if Etch retires? Will someone step up to the plate the way he has to give us plenty of debating topic?
I couldn't let this one pass because, unless i'm wrong, you have the wrong guy. Quintanilla was the one who put on the superman cape in the "comeback game" vs NE. He scored a couple of times and got an assist on the 4 goals we got in the last 15 minutes or so.
Actually two... he's played the game at a high level and can probably see things that fans, even the fanatics, do not see as well (I can hear the gasps of disbelieve!). I'm glad that he states strong opinions straight forwardly, using his experience to provide insight. He get's people talking and I believe he'll help bring people to the beautiful game. Yabo
I can't let this one pass either. Marco was the star of that game. He put the ball on Quintinilla's head for the first goal, and then, most importantly, he drew the PK that allowed us to tie the game in the waning moments. That was huge. That was huger than huge. It was that act which gave us new life in a hopeless game. Yes, Quintinilla was the person who converted the PK, but Marco drew it. Not to take anything away from Q2. He was huge too. And he truly put the icing on the cake with a beautiful pass to Eskandarian for the 4th goal. But let's be honest here -- that crucial win was put together by Marco Etcheverry.
This debate of whether or not you agree with Wynalda is getting hilarious. The Marco bashers and apologists going at it tooth and nail once again in the endless debate in which neither zealot will give an inch in changing their minds. I've stated my opinion of Marco's play many times and see no reason do it once again. The point is that Wynalda is a breath of fresh air in giving his non-politically correct opinions with which you can agree or not. I for one find it refreshing that someone has the balls (ego ?) to actually say what he thinks. I am only sorry that I missed most of his interview on Big Soccer radio this week. His opinions on the Mens and Womens coaching were interesting. I need to check and see if they archive the broadcasts. I think many of you need to take a deep breath and take Wynalda's column for what it is, his opinion. Take it or leave it, but not go off frothing at the mouth in rabid disagreement.
Because Etch is not playing tomorrow, the post-game thread will be a good 50 posts shorter than normal. Book it.
ugh... can somebody please skip to the next track... this one's skipping again and frankly i'm getting tired of listening to the same tune again and again.
There just isn't any place for Etcheverry at RFK...except maybe hanging on the banner on end zone wall beside Harkes.
I was thinking the same question... At this point I would say that these two are the best all-time in MLS: - Etch has had the highest sustained peak of performance. No one can match what Etch did for any four years (96-99). -Preki, while not quite so good as Etch at his peak, has longer sustained excellence. No one can match Preki's now eight years of quality play.
Without naming any names, I would contend that someone watching games on tv can see more of what's going on in the game as a whole than someone standing/jumping in the Barra with their perceptions clouded by rum.
Oh goody, another Marco-related BigSoccer pissing match. Without taking a stand one way or another on Etch (I'm unequivocally pro-Diablo, by the way) in this post, I want to comment on Wynalda's commentary style. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's noticed that he is completely full of himself. People praise him for being "politically incorrect"; he just doesn't know how to write. He can express an opinion on Marco without sounding like a total jerk, but instead, he lets the hubris of never having done a goddamn thing of worth in MLS leak through. Not to mention his view of Marco's decline is nothing that hasn't been bandied about countless times in this forum, so he's not original in that by any means. I think someone in this thread praised him for having the "balls" to speak his mind; that's a load of crap. It's a breath of hot air, if you ask me. In his articles and his televised comments from the touchline, the ego of being "MLS veteran and American socer icon (ha!) Eric Wynalda" is painfully evident. He was crap in MLS, so now we have to take his crap on any ESPN2/ABC game we watch. That last email response of his was just stupid; "...just be careful what you ask". Is he afraid someone will take him to task on his supposed omniscience of Major League Soccer, despite a complete lack of anything to show for his time here (meaning championships)? For someone who's feted for speaking his mind, he sure as hell isn't saying much.
It's called "attacking the messenger" and it's been a very common tactic in this thread. Unfortunately.
OBJECTIVITY: Sure, I am attacking the messenger. If you like Wynalda that's fine but let's not pretend he is suddenly God's gift to journalistic integrity. The notion that Wynalda is "objective" is a complete joke. I may not know a lot about soccer tactics but I do know more then enough about sports media. Former players being critical of rival players during their career is hardly objective. If you believe this you believe that Troy Aikman, Jim Palmer, John Madden, Sam Huff, Sonny Jurgenson, Dan Marino, Chris Collinsworth etc etc etc do not REALLY favor their former teams in the booth or analyst role. You believe that ex-players with long standing grudges, animosities, jealousy, etc are somehow able to magically set this aside in an act of journalistic purity. This is absolute rubbish. They do not and even more clearly do not care to. Its not their job. Why should they? They are not writing history they are writing about sports. He is an ex-PLAYER posing as a journalist. He has no need to be objective, and as his article shows he fully understands this. If this had been Goff or Haydon I guarantee that there would have been at least a token paragraph (if not much more) laying out the opposing case for Marco's season much like Marco10 did here. How about a comment or quote in there from Ray? When DC United's coach has had nothing but personal praise for Marco's efforts this year I take what Eric Wynalda said here with a grain of salt. And to be clear, I am not arguing the merits of MArco old vs. MArco now... I am just saying I don't give a rats toss what this ex-MLS has been and never was (in this league) has to say about our team, he is a color analyst and is basically the Eric Dickerson of MLS. Tell me who is injured at the half Eric and shut the fuckup...
Without naming names I would say you have no idea what people "see" or "do not see" in the Barra. With all due respect, I think casting a broad net like this is completely wrong and shows a lack of understanding of the entire supporters club. I can cast generalizations at a LOT of fans at RFK. I would also like to add that when a person is actually at a game, and are a knowledgeable soccer fan (and to be CLEAR I am not saying I am or you are not...) you DO see a LOT more then the camera offers on TV. For example, you see that a player ran thirty-five yards at full speed after he "just gave the ball away" to win it back. Or you might notice the player saw a wide open player on opposite flank to start the counter attack even though no one else did. Sure there are people that see other things at the game at the same time, but in reality to see EVERYTHING that a player contributes to a team you need to see the big picture not the one being fed into your living room. That's why they send scouts to games instead of just buying them the MLS Shootout package. (and yes... because some tool will undoubtedly state the obvious... IDEALLY you would use both tape and personal observation to judge a player.)
Or you could see that he jogs around half the time or walks around without getting involved in the play at hand. Works both ways (unfurtunately).
A serious question for the True Believers... Why do you think that people (like me) who love what Marco did for the team, who think that his is one of the three or four best ever in MLS, who respect that he stayed in DC when he could have gone elsewhere in 1998, who think he's been great for the community and the young players on the team are so critical of him now? What's the motive? To turn the question on its head... I believe that his defenders are so enamored with all of the things above that they simply cannot see him for the player he is now.
All I can say is that Eric touched on some soft spot if he was able to generate this tremendous response from Bigsoccer fellows... Don't you agree?...
Said Waldo: If Marco Etcheverry, who is suspended for Sunday's game, continues to start for D.C. United, the team will continue to be digging itself into a hole.... What ever happened to "if Etcheverry plays DC will lose, if he doesn't DC will win or tie"?? Someone must've edited that out I love Waldo having strong opinions, even if I disagree w/him. This time he's flat out wrong about Etcheverry