Etcheverry - When It's Hard To Let Go (Eric Wynalda, MLSNet, 10/17)

I think calling a spade a spade is not tearing him a new one, but that's my opinion.

A great thing about this article is that Wynalda will be doing comentary at the game. So thouse of you going to the game, be sure to have your VCR's set- this could be interesting.

 

I think Wynalda is a fvcking idiot that we beat the pants off of on more then one occasion. I know others give him alot of of respect but I don't. Persnally, it sounds like sour grapes to me. Sorry you never won $hit Eric. I am even more sorry to see that you still hold it against MArco and DC United that we made you look liek crap.


As to whether Marco starts or comes off the bench? I will leave the decisions regarding Marco's effectiveness to Ray, not some oft injured prima dona...

 

Waldo says this:

If Marco Etcheverry starts for D.C. United against Columbus on Sunday, D.C. will tie or lose the game. If he does not play, I think D.C. United will beat the Crew.

I guess he doesn't realize this from dcunited.com:

Added to the unavailable list for Sunday's matinee is midfield playmaker Marco Etcheverry, who is suspended for the match due to caution point accumulation

I don't want to argue about Etch anymore this season. And if he's retiring, I won't have to do it ever again.

 

I think his analysis of Marco is right on. I dunno if he's trying to become a Howard Cosell of MLS or something but he does need to tone it down a bit. His writing abilities could use some work as well.

 

Proving once and for all Wynalda (pronounced: Whine' :all: day') is as bad a writer/analyst as he was an MLS forward. Freaking wang.

Oh thank you Master of the Obvious... Marco has slowed down... NOW I can see why ESPN pays him the big bucks. --Now can he explain how Marco practically won the "comeback game" vs. NE that turned our season around????

--More importantly why do we give a flying toss what this guy has to say? Did he ever play for this team? Let alone beat it?

 

etch is a soccer juggernaut

his vision and presence on the field are unequaled, ever

i have a non-homosexual infatuation with etch

i will sacrifice my firstborn son to the memory of etch's mullet

etch once had a three way with 2 manta rays - top that, brad friedel

 

What's wrong with a homosexual infatuation you homophobe...

 

I sense that you are angry about something, McOwen, and more than just this Wynalda thing.

Alone again on a Friday night?

 

I thought Eric was spot on. In the games that I've seen Marco play live (as opposed to TV), he looked sluggish. And that includes games from last year. The man has obviously lost a step. That's not denouncing him or calling him a bad player. It's simply stating a fact: the Marco of today is not the Marco of the mid-to-late nineties. He is winding down on his professional playing days and is having trouble keeping pace with today's league. He deserves to be remembered as a legend, but that shouldn't interfere with an analysis of his current level of play.

 

... an open letter to Eric Wynalda ...

Dear Eric,

I agree with your perspective on Etcheverry 100%.

But why, I ask, did you have to write this damned column? Did you not anticipate the mess you'd cause here on this board? Did you not realize the strife that you would incite? Why, Eric!? Why? You have compelled us once again to slog through this miserable tired debate. Nobody will change their minds because of your column. You're just going to piss everyone off. It's not worth it! And, frankly, you already made this exact same point in an ESPN2 broadcast earlier this year. Don't you have anything new to write about? How about something we can all get angry about together. Take a cue from Sean Wheelock and bitch and moan about the San Diego Chivas or rant and rave about that bastard Steve Sampson. I'm sure we'd all love to read some of those stories. But Marco Etcheverry - this is a bad subject to undertake. It's just miserable. We've been through it on this board 1000 times and it's the same each time. It's an abyss deeper and darker than Thomas Rongen's coaching. And yet there you go like idiotically stepping into that void and here we all are like lemmings falling in right after you. Yes, we're idiots too. But you, sir, took the first step. What were you thinking? Or shall I just presume that you weren't thinking at all and so didn't anticipate the havoc that you were going to wreak here?

And so with that I conclude this letter. You’ve made a mess. I hope you're happy.

Sincerely,

- Benjamin

p.s. Eric, is it true that John Harkes boned your wife?

 

Screw you Chico.

I do my best do deflect this whole *#*#*#*# debate and you've got nothing better to do than level a personal attack at me.

Did you even read beyond the first line of my post? Or did you just assume to know what I wrote. Absurd. I made it pretty god damned obvious that I didn't want to run through this whole debate again. Indeed, I think I made it pretty obvious that I didn't want to see this debate on this board at all.

And then you've got to level a personal attack at me. I just don't get it. It's *#*#*#*#ing ridiculous. I don't know why I *#*#*#*#ing bother.

 

Not to interrupt anything, but what does that have to do with the topic? I can cheer for Marco all day long, but that doesn't mean he deserves it. You need to separate the current player from the legacy. It's not that hard to see that Marco is not the superstar he once was. Eric presented a valid assessment of the current Marco. I don't see that as Marco-bashing. It's a critique on his personal performance as of right now. And right now Marco is not playing that well.

 

You know, that's what has me currently in a bind.

I don't giva a rat's a** about Chico or Knave. I wish people would actually give Marco credit for his actual performances this year.

This is my reply to Wynalda:

It's sad that you bash Marco so unashamedly. You did it July 5th, I believe, in the ESPN2 game of the week against NY which Cheating Bob won so glamorously with his 4th sub. And you have not stopped since, despite obvious chances to retract your assertions based on absolute facts. Interestingly, Marco set up the game winner right onto Alecko Eskandarian's head which would have earned DC a victory rather than the loss they got in OT. It's also too bad you fail to see the reality that Marco is so much more than the sum of his parts. He should have won the season opener in KC if not for some suspect GK'ing, he won our second win of the season with two assists over Columbus, won a lost cause in NE, set up the win over Colorado, started the win over SJ, and he earned a crucial tie in Columbus. Of course he's not the player he once was. Neither are you the player that once beat us in RFK with two undeserved goals on Chicago's only two shots that game (not that I'm still bitter over that undeserved PK AND the fluke kick that hit poor AJ!). However, even you back then, as well as Marco now, still have a role on a team with championship aspirations.

It's funny you say Marco's out of shape. It's funny you say he's flailing at referees in frustration. Seems to me that you're describing yourself. Please don't brand Marco in that vein. First of all, he's been a terror to referees since day one, which of course you know since you were there with your lucky GW goal. Second, for such an out of shape guy, he certainly does manage to effect games a lot more than your boy, Earnie Stewart. For that matter, let's look at what Marco has done versus Stewart. Three games won versus one. I don't go by stats either, I just want to know who won the game for a team, and Marco has done it three times, while Stewart has done it once. Dema, Olsen, and a host of others has won game for DC once each, but only Marco, and possibly Stoichkov, have earned victories for DC this season. Arguably, all of them have lost games an equal number of times.

Speaking of that, seems odd that so many players like Bennie, Dema, and even your beloved Stewart look to Marco so much on the field. Could it be that they know his importance more than you? Strange to thik so many veterans players wouold disagree with an analyst, but possibly that's the world you've entered now that you've crossed the line.

As for is physically looking good lately, to think he's looked bad is really taking a short sighted look. The fact that Marco doesn't shoot is ridiculous. He's got more shots on goal now than he ever has, but's that just because that's what this team needs. If they didn't have such ineffective forwards, Marco would probably have no shots on goal, but would be collecting his 4thh MLS Cup. So, Preki shoots, big deal. He's got one Cup, Marco has 6. Wonder how that happened.

Finally, it's amusing you've fallen into the standard Anti Marco argument of his "slowing the game down". It's amazing so many of you "experts" think MLS needs to be a track meet. You know what? Convey, among others, treat MLS that way and yet sadly, they haven't won anything with their style. Wonder why? To say he's preventing DC from winnig, especially in the light of losing Olsen who "covered" for him in almost ludicrous. If anyhing, Marco has spent most of this year winning games that Benny hasn't done S*** in. Not only that, but Benny openly has said many times (as interpretted by his open statements in the press and on air) that Marco's possession skills and tactical passing keeps DC on track way more often than not.

I actually like the fact you say what's on your mind, but I really think your cheap shotting Marco, especially when you yourself played at least a year past your sell by date, is pretty petty. If you want to make an example of somebody not pulling their weight in the future, how about picking somebody who's really tanking their team like Bo, Lalas, Mike Clark, or Llamosa, or Meola, Jaime Moreno, Mathis, McBride, Morrow, Fraser, Diego Gutierrez, Lagos, CJ Brown, etc. Don't pick arguably the most important player in MLS history.

I'm quite sure you're going to get numerous hate mails from the RFK faithful. If that was your plan, then you succeeded. But, if you actually intended a rational opinion, then you failed miserably.

 

I'm going to respond reasonably to you even though I think you've made it quite clear that you don't care one bit about the facts of what I've got to say about Etch. You have it in your mind that I do nothing but bash him and absolutely I do level my share of criticism about him. I stand by that. But the charge that I've never said anything positive about him, that I think he sucks - always has and always will – is utterly ridiculous.

My fullest statement is probably this ...

Indeed, as that excerpt indicates part of the reason I'm so annoyed by the so-called "Marco Apologists" today is that I too often think they've forgotten how good he used to be. Wynalda was spot on in his column when he wrote that "I just hope that people don’t remember him for the way he’s playing right now." He's right. He's exactly right. I want to remember Etch for how he used to play, not for the shell that's there now.

And I also agree that "He has been an incredible asset to this League and if you were going to pick your all-time MLS Best XI, Marco would be a shoe-in." Absolutely. No question. But Etcheverry isn't playing at that level today and it's not bashing to say that. It's just a matter of fact.

And, by the way, did you even notice that I wrote in that same thread that I'd like to see Etch come back to DC United as head coach? If I really thought Etch was through and through crap would I want that? I think not.

In short, Chico, the simple fact of the matter is that my position on Etch is far more nuanced than you seem to presume. It's all out there in public if you care to read it. And if you're going to respond to my posts on this matter with such fervor then I suggest you do.

As for the claim that you don't take me seriously- I think it's quite clear that you take what I write very seriously and care a great deal about what I think. If you didn't then I doubt you'd bother responding to my posts with such vitriol.

 

I'll respond a bit in defense of Marco.

What do you have as your evidence of his being a detriment to DC United????

He's won games at least 4-5 times this season (based on reasonably informed opinion), he's helped this team close out wins (at least twice, if not 5 times this season), and he's given this team chances to win at least 3 of their subsequent losses that I can remember. So, let's see. That means Marco is relatively crucial to a miminum of at least 15 points this season.

Compared to Mathis, Razov, Twellman, McBride, and every other vital MLS player, Marco sure doesn't look so bad. Assuming you don't have Anti-Marco goggles on.

MM

 

Re: ... an open letter to Eric Wynalda ...

he talked about etch, because it's the game of the week... what is there to talk about???

the crew???

let's be reasonable

 

Okay, now I'm confused. Players don't win games. Teams win games. The fact that Marco still contributes to the team is great. However, he has not performed consistently and that has hurt our team. To say that he played well in his good games denies the fact that he played like crap in others. It seems his supporters only want to acknowledge those good games and his past success and disavow his current abilities. His consistency (or lack thereof) is what draws most people's ire and the reason Wynalda wrote the article.

 

Re: ... an open letter to Eric Wynalda ...

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I'm definitely on the fence about this issue..

On the one hand, I agree mostly with what Knave has stated and to a lesser extent what Wynalda has said.. Wynalda could have reigned in the vitriol a little bit but then he wouldn't have been able to make his case then.. Wynalda has one advantage over every single one of us in this debate in that he doesn't have a vested interest in how Marco plays.. He's completely objective on the issue and what he says definitely hurts but in the end it is the truth..

On the other hand, my friend Mike Martin (Marco10) brings up some valid points as well..

I fear the real truth with Marco lies somewhere between.. Marco still is an important player to this team and this league, but it's painfully obvious to me that he physically isn't the same player.. I heeded Knave's advice and did watch some old tapes of Marco and the contrast is as plain as day.. Marco right now is slower, fatter and less effective than he used to be.. Is that a product of the whole league improving or Marco declining? That is the real debate and both sides of that argument have merit..