Re: The Balance of Trade -- Tracking MLS Imports and Exports that's along the lines i was thinking. yanks to norway right now seems a bit trendy. i didn't mean they couldn't keep going in such numbers if they wanted to and were asked, but was just wondering if it wasn't getting to be a bit of a bubble. what i do think, is that if the yanks do well there, doors will open in other european leagues.
Re: The Balance of Trade -- Tracking MLS Imports and Exports thank you for your posts about norwegian soccer. they help us understand the choice some american players have made, and also the specifics of the teams they have joined (1st or 2nd division, salary budgets).
My problem with this article and other similar value judgements is that the writer holds up Lapira, Jacobson and Videira as important losses to the league, but completely ignores the fact that the draft/undrafted free agent pool may yield significant talent that MLS can benefit from on the field and in the transfer market. The credibility of these writers is for shit when they ignore the fact that a couple of dozen new players come into the league every year. And they ignore it because it would tip the scales toward MLS as a league that imports talent, albeit much of it from the U.S. college ranks. MLS may not have gotten transfer fees for all of them, but the draft yielded Goodson, Perkins, Jacqua, Ngwenya, Dorman, Mathis, Johnson, Gbandi, etc. You can't just pay attention to how they leave the league. You have to pay attention to how they come in. So if you're going to whine that MLS lost Lapira, Jacobson and Videira, you should recognize that they got Iro, Nyarko, Myers or at least wait to see who ends up making a significant impact for MLS teams this year.
No. Last year, they still had their limits of 3 non-Euros per squad. As to Emilio, he was a failure at the Bundesliga II level, albeit many years ago. http://www.fussballdaten.de/spieler/emilioluciano/ I doubt his one goal in three seasons in Germany had the Tippeligaen scouts drooling. And there are plenty of Freds to go around. Having said that, the Norwegian second division had gone for Thiago Martins, who was one of the goal leaders in 2007. With new rules, there's no reason for the Norwegians to stay away from the 3rd and 4th tier Brazilians or Colombians anymore. If up until recently, that player market was Eastern Europe and Middle East, now it has a new global competitor. Denmark hasn't quite gone that far but they have began to offer a no-limit status to all Europeans and all Africans, so now only Americans and Asians count as "foreigners". And with Asians largely staying put in Asia (Japan, South Korea and soon China absorb the Far East talent while the rich Middle Eastern leagues do the same for the Arab speaking world), there's plenty of opportunities for the Yanks in Denmark.
Re: The Balance of Trade -- Tracking MLS Imports and Exports As Matt12 said, each league has their own rules. The only thing that have in common is that they have to allow all EU and Schengen Accord nations the right to work. The trend to drop most limits however is right in line with the above. Norway seems to be targeting Yanks recently because there were a number of free transfers available, as MLS chose to let these contracts expire, because 2008 is the first year of the no-limit/low-limit rules in Norway and because the Yanks fit into the Norwegian salary structure. In Holland, with its ~ $500K minimum non-EU wage, someone has to be really good to warrant a spot on the team. Earnie Stewart, when asked about possibly bringing American players to his club NAC Breda, replied that the Yanks were too expensive - meaning that he can't justify paying $500K to an American player. Norway has no such limits and Belgium has a negligible one ... which makes you wonder why only Gooch, Jared J and Craig Dalby (and Alex Yi, way back when) had made it to Jupiler. Fomenko and Reshko (old Kiev central pair from the glory years). Anyhow, I think Foer is wrong. The Ukrainians went after the Nigerians and other Africans because that was in their price range at the time. Now that Surkis and Akhmetov made their billions, they can afford pretty much anyone who doesn't mind coming to Ukraine (the same goes for the super rich Russian clubs like Zenit), which really means the Brazilians and the Argies. Sandon has the agent beat covered. Obviously, Richard Motzkin is an MLS guy. Rob Feigenson and Patrick Mc Cabe do more outside deals. Others have an EU based agent co-handling the local deals, as is apparently the case with someone like Craig Sharon. http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/berater/641/berater/uebersicht/beraterdetails.html
MLS talent drain is a cause for real concern Preseason is under way across the country as the 14 teams in MLS embark on a journey they hope will end in November at the Home Depot Center in Carson, Calif. However, all is not rosy in the MLS after an offseason that saw the acceleration of a trend that, if it continues, could be fundamentally detrimental to soccer in the United States. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=508739&cc=5901
Re: MLS talent drain is a cause for real concern there's already two topics about this, and I think the article has already been posted as well. Quite frankly, this guy ignores many of the best incoming players. The balance of trade thread shows pretty clearly we're having more talent incoming, and with imminent signings from many teams throughout the leauge, the balance will only increase in favor of MLS. More talent is coming in than leaving, period. Again, the critical question, do you want to pay Pat Noonan or Andy Dorman 10% of the cap?
Re: The Balance of Trade -- Tracking MLS Imports and Exports My guess would be that the Revs still need someone who is proven to be able to score goals....
because negativity reigns supreme with US soccer fans. The balance of trade is great, the imports already outnumber the exports, and that number is only going to increase in favor of MLS before the transfer window closes. It's not all aging Euros, there's quite a few young South and Central Americans. We're doing quite allright, and I think the product on the field will be even better next year. I've asked this question a dozen times, and I'll do it again... do you really want to pay Pat Noonan/Clint Mathis/Dorman/Jaqua 10%+ of the salary cap?
Re: MLS talent drain is a cause for real concern This and the other Hush thread should be combined with the balance of trade thread because all together it makes for an interesting discussion. My initial thought was that we were losing some good talent but then I read through the names of the players coming in (and there is probably quite a few signings to go before the season starts) and I'm less concerned. To me the biggest worry is that we're losing decent US players to lesser leagues (imo), but with expansion I'm comfortable that there will still be plenty of Yanks in the league.
Re: MLS talent drain is a cause for real concern when you step back and look at the big picture ie the overall health of the league and its possible future,I think MLS is moving in the right direction. It isnt easy to strike the perfect ballance of importing talent to put butts in seats and increase the level of play as well as MLS maintaining its original objective of developing home grown talent for the National Team. I think we are lucky to have Garber in place as commish and overall he has grown the league,increased domestic and international interest and guaranteed that the next expansion teams will pony up a significantly higher buy in fee......... the real question for me is what will MLS do when some of our younger promising prospects like Altidore etc...start gettingoffers from overseas worth big bucks.........when that happens i want to see if MLS replaces that talent with equal or greater talent. AS long as Americans players are predominant on every roster then we are ok. if we become a purely import league and dont have a place for young American talent to play then we will be missing the overall objective IMO. until then im very excited about the future of MLS.I think in the next ten to twlve years its going to become THE LEAGUE to play in ,in the Western Hemisphere.
Re: MLS talent drain is a cause for real concern what he said...it's a cycle to a degree, increased demand for quality players will help create more quality players particularly through the youth and reserve set ups being developed by MLS clubs. you still can't just go out and buy a club full of big names so every club will have to develop/draft it's own players, there's no choice.
Preface warning: Ives G. has blogged here: http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2008/02/new-england-lin.html that NE actually plans to spend significantly more than Noonan cost to afford a clear upgrade from him. That would certainly throw much of this discussion on its ear. But that news will obviously be met with some skepticism, given what we think we know about that franchise (or thought we knew, notice that wording), and so it's probably worth continuing unless/until that word is confirmed. Emm, let me just say that this response doesn't appear to show all its work. But at any rate, the point I'm trying to make is not that a particular team could literally have signed them both, but to note they've been better bargains than has Noonan. Now, I doubt that your average Scandinavian team has scouted the leagues of Australia and Honduras enough to have an opinion one way or the other. Even a massive club can't scout every league that might produce a player with the ability to play there, but they can come a lot closer than can a club in a third tier league like most of the Scandinavian leagues (or like MLS). Most scouting is going to come via connections you've used before and thus have a frame of reference for their prior success. But supposing they had, and that Noonan had gone over rather than Fred or Emilio because Noonan would be more effective there, that would raise another good point--that players' value changes with the context. Because that would mean that each of these players (consider Fred or Emilio for a moment as if there was only one of him, to compare against Noonan) had found the context in which he was more valuable than the other. That'd be a pretty good thing, as it comes pretty close to the Holy Grail that economists call "net efficiency gain." It certainly wouldn't be cause for much handwringing.
Re: MLS talent drain is a cause for real concern I went ahead and did that because, in addition to what you mention, it also seems to leave the tracking thread a little closer to the original poster's intention. The dialogue that generated probably does dovetail better here.
True no league can scout evry area well and as for the norwegian league most of the foregin talent tends to come from oter clubs in scandinavia, eastern europe and a few african players. But hopefully with the new rules the clubs will find oter areas of the globe intresting and start spending time searching for intresting players there to. But the MLS defenatly got an edge in scouting particularly since good talent tendst to be relatively cheap in the leagues closest to the MLS.
Re: MLS talent drain is a cause for real concern Thanks Stan and I appreciate your consideration. As we go forward though, it doesn't offend me a bit if you use your judgment and make whatever changes you feel will move the discussion along. I started the thread only because I thought seeing the actual names involved might be helpful for a discussion that was otherwise a bit abstract. FWIW.
Re: MLS talent drain is a cause for real concern Lies, damn lies, and statistics. The Dynamo will miss both players, but IMHO Ngwenya is the bigger loss because of his speed and better skills with the ball. Jaqua is more of a poacher than a creative attacker.
Or, one might say, the Revs and MLS would be better with both Noonan and their new (possible) DP. I am not sure what you mean. Last season and all seasons prior to this one, a player taking the non-EU slot had to be of decent quality. Conceptually, this is not different than the pre-Bosman years when Inter had Klinsmann, Mattäus and Brehme and Milan had van Basten, Gullit and Rijkaard. When you had limited slots open, you went for the best you could afford. Now the Norwegian clubs can go for a more of a lower hanging fruit and Pat was a free-be, which fit Aalesund's needs very well. And they may still prove to be ... however, it doesn't take the market very long to adjust itself. You hire a local scout (which can be done in smaller leagues very cheaply) on a part-time basis, which means he'll file reports for more than one team. BTW, the Hondurans have been playing all over the world. Someone surely must be scouting them. Well, Emilio was last year. Noonan is this year. Most Norwegian clubs may not be able to afford Emilio - since MLS will demand a fee, although some clubs did bid for Twellman and Conrad in the past - now but they can afford Pat Noonan. In 2009, they may afford a Chad Barrett and a Steve Cronin or whoever else comes free from MLS. Sure but efficiency demands "market performance". Those who can't deliver usually find themselves out of business and very soon.