ESPN Soccernet: Beasley mulls a move home

That picture makes Beasley look like Richie Williams' short black cousin.

 

I am sooooooooo sick of the "you gotta go to Europe to progress crowd."
Ives is among the drivers of this idiotic bandwagon.

Where is the proof for this?? Where?? Where?? Anyone?? This has GOT to be the most assumed point due to American's MLS inferiority complex.

Amongst the current non-keeper crowd who moved from MLS to Europe, Convey and Hannehmen are the strongest arguments for a transfer.

What about these players who made the move(s) and either didn't progress or regressed during their time:
Vanney, Mathis, Donovan, Bocanegra, McBride, Lewis, Beasley (up and down to average out at null).

The jury is still out on Gibbs given his injuries.

The facts are that very few managers have given American field players a fair shake following their transfers. By demanding higher transfer fees for MLS players, the league is not only protecting its investment, but benefitting the players. If a Euro team drops a couple million more on a US player, it will make them think twice about benching them at first whim (or at least that is how the logic goes.) For Ives to suggest that the most recent $1.5 million offer for Dempsey is fair is a joke! For Dempsey, Johnson and Mathis to sit and sulk instead of making themselves more attractive to foreign teams is a sad trend. (That being said, turning down $5M for Johnson was kind of nuts.)

The other backfire of the glorified Euro Transfer is the disconnect between Euro-raised and MLS-raised players. This was never more glaring than Reyna's effective attack slowing during the most recent world cup. His slow-down, build up style is not compatible with MLS' speed/flank/over-the-top approach, that is fast becoming the "American" style of play.

 

Are you being serious?

 

I agree with you that a player need not go to Europe or else wither on the MLS vine, but I wouldn't say that McBride and Lewis went stagnant or worse, regressed during their time in England. McHead has done quite well in my opinion, and has earned great respect from players, coaches, and fans. I'm trying to think back to whether Lewis was a national teamer prior to going to England, and now he has some World Cup stats with his name beside them?

I think that the answer is that we can't make a blanket statement that will be valid for every single player. Convey went over, and he looks better now than I've ever seen him. Big Brad has done great. Mathis didn't adjust as well. There's a spectrum. Some players will be better served by staying in MLS. Other's will thrive on the environment in Europe. I personally want more players to go over and challenge themselves to improve, versus sitting back with the knowledge that your starting position is rock-solid regardless of your performance.

 

Why do people insist on saying Gibbs was developed by MLS? He played collegitley at Brown, then went to Europe(Germany), came back to MLS for a year and then went back.

 

Ives is that you? I am being serious, this is my serious face.

I don't think think that MLS field players are going to have a quantum leap in skill by heading over the pond. Convey is the only guy (thus far) who is out there everyday trying to shatter my point. Again, I'm limiting my discussion to field players. Marcus, Big Brad and even Timmy are excluded. The crux of my argument is this: it is better to play in MLS than ride the pine in Euroland.

McHead is an interesting topic. He was the voted the MVP of the team! But for such a service dependent player, is his percieved form due to finishing progression or the fact that he is getting better balls? Maybe I could lean toward progression, however I'll take McHead WC 2002 over McHead WC 2006. Many other factors come in, particularily Arena's game plan (if there was one) and age. Tough call.

I'm not sure when Lewis' first cap was.

 

I'm not saying that. You could also make the same argument about Donovan. I'm simply trying to compare US field players that have played in Europe and MLS and their difference (if any) in form between the two and if there has been any proof that the jump will benefit our national team.

Proof being the key word. I'll not deny that the football in Europe is superior to MLS (I'm not a quack), however is it worth it to the national team to have another talented, but tempermental Clint thrown to the scrap heap following the ultimate in confidence shattering?

This funnels right into what DMB is thinking as we speak. Plus, I'd like to see all our USNT players play for Colorado and RSL. Then we might be able to take down Mexico in Azteca's altitude.

 

being a Fire fan you would understand that he was not progressing in the MLS

When he moved to PSV straight away he started showing sighns of improvment

Convey is another one
Dempsey will too

Beas should stay or move to a anther Eruo team

 

I wonder if he can return to how good he was before he broke his leg.

 

I think this is the crux of the arguement.

The soccer in Europe is of higher quality than in the US.
The schedule is longer in Europe than in the US.
The training/coaching is of higher quality than in the US.

Therefore move X from US to Europe and X will improve at a greater rate.

Seems logical and is backed-up by the fact that Freddy Adu (and similar players) would not have improved at this rate had he been playing at a HS level.

If only the only things that were different about MLS and Europe were the following three points than the sucess level should be 100%.

However when you move to Europe a lot more changes than the above three premises, which causes X not to develop like expected.

I still think that a world class player is much better served by playing and improving at the highest level and that MLS will keep them from maximizing their potential. Some players that would be average players in Europe, MLS is often times the best option. Some players that would be good in Europe can't adjust to te cultural differances.Some average players will also never meet their potential in MLS. Bottomline every player is different, want works for one won't work for all.

 

So what I am hearing from this discussion is that it is better to play AAA ball as opposed to the Major Leagues. For some players this may be true because they would get PT in AAA while they sit on the pine in the Majors. However, I would expect any decent player would want to at least try to get to a bigger league and prove that they cannot make it than to stagnate in MLS. (And get a much better paycheck than what MLS offers.)

MLS has come a long way in its 10 years but the glamour of playing in front of a crowd 22,000 at Elland Road (Leeds) instead of 10,000 in KC has got to be an attraction to go abroad.

 

You're right -- a prospect who needs development is more likely to be in the minors, not occupying the 24th or 25th spot on an MLB roster. But yes, moving up is the goal.

22,000 isn't at all unreasonable for an MLS game, especially at L.A. or D.C.

 

Lewis was capped in '96, played again in '98 and played a good bit more in '99. He signed with Fulham in 2000.

Funny thing -- at the time of the 2002 World Cup, Lewis was collecting a paycheck and training in England, but "playing" would be an overstatement. (OK, fine, reserve games, yeah yeah.) Didn't hurt him in Korea.

 

Of course if this were _only_ about playing at a high level, MLS would be a higher level if all American talent stayed here.

Of course it isn't only about that and probably not even primarily about that. It's mostly a money issue. Soccer players are worth more in Europe than they are here.

Change that, and I think we can then start to really focus in on keeping everyone here. Easier said than done, but an uncompetitive salary structure doesn't help. The MLS/Mexico tournament might.

 

Leeds is averaging 20K so far this season and DCU is better anyway.

But that's probably the only MLS team.

Yves's got an own name.

So, when you watch the Premiership or Bundesliga and then MLS, do you see any difference in what some might perceive as "quality"?

 

Damn. Who can think that between Donovan, Beasley and Convey, Bobby is the only one we still have hope on?

 

The biggest difference isn't the "talent", or "quality"...though the gaps are obvious.
At this moment in the MLS timeline, it's the pressure. Not from the media or fans. Not from April through August. But from Sunday through Friday...or however the whacked schedule pares out.
Right now, the grinders are the only MLSers who will make it OK in Europe... The guys who already work on not only the off-days, but the off-moments... Not the guys who have some hyperbolic fan-imagined need to prove themselves (and by extension, the league and nation's "soccer worth") to the World...but the guys who have always had to prove it, if only to themselves.
You may think that Convey's had some sort of free ride on a magical silver platter, but if you look into his soul, I'm sure you'll see that gritty spark in there. And I'm sure you'll see the damp spot in DaMarcus' soul where that flame was extinguished...though I'm also sure that, like me, you're hoping there's an ember left in there somewhere.

 

Yeah, that's weird, I still remember the vitriol spouted whenever Convey's name was brought up

 

Put yourself in their position, Pyro (Dempsey, Mathis, Johnson).

Would you rather put a KC wizards jersey on every day, or a jersey with the premier league insignia on it?

people who critiscize them for this don't appreciate the lure of playing for historic clubs in historic cities with packed houses.

 

Hannehmen's not a keeper anymore??!!! Holy crap, I gotta pay better attention.

 

And additionally, in Dempsey's case, earning 10 times as much as he does now

 

This is a negative.

As to the rest of it, this logic works if you forget "X" is actually a human being.

 

Whoops, sorry about that Marcus slip. My proof reading staff in on holiday.

I certainly understand the allure of wanting to play in the top leagues (money, fame, crowds, quality, etc.) , however getting a transfer and actually playing first team football and achieving those things in Europe are two different things that many posters don't seem to get. The AAA vs. Major Leagues is a decent example, however with one major and ultimate caveat. In this case, even the AAA players will have to play in the World Series! (i.e. MLS players in the World Cup). SO if you had to choose, where would you want you World Series starting roster? Playing daily in AAA or riding the pine in the bigs?

I also haven't found much proof of the MLS stagnation that everyone here is referring to, except with the disenfranchised duo of Mathis and Johnson, which came after their transfer speculation. Possibly throw in Gibbs here too, who's stint in MLS was just to get him some exercise near Bruce.

Beasley, Boca, Bradley, Borchards, Lewis, Convey were all still progressing in MLS when they got their transfer. Donovan and Twellman progressed in MLS AFTER returning from Europe! McHead has played at a similarily high level throughout his career. Some may submit that Beasley has progressed in Europe. REALLY!?! (Some people really wet themselves after seeing an American in Champions League!) DMB was just as dangerous a player (and perhaps more so) in 2002 than he is now, just look at the last world cup. I'm even in the camp that he did not have a bad WC, however can we say that we saw a better player on the field in 2006? No.

The goal here is first team football. Not reserve time overseas. Progression does not happen through an osmosis process of being in a so called true football environment. (Repeat 10x)

The only way a MLS starter is going to get better by going to Europe is starting regularly in one of the top leagues. Reserve team matches are not going to help a player talented enough to get a transfer. And looping this in with the original point of the article, who do you think Euro coach is going to think twice about benching? $1.5 million transfer player or $5.0 million trasfer player?

There is also the "fight for a spot" argument. You know the, "Rather than be handed a starting role in MLS these guys would benefit from fighting for a spot on a top roster in Europe" line. Feed that automatic MLS starting spot to the likes of Mapp, Adu, and O'Brien (non-American, but a good league example.) MLS is not the cakewalk the Europhiles make it out to be. Is it Euro level competition for starting spots? Hell no, but it sure isn't the free pass that it may have been over 5 years ago.

Look, I really do want top Americans to play in Europe. I know that the overall quality and coaching are much better. However, too many times, the Euro transfer has backfired or had little impact on that player's national team play.

 

sorry to burst your bubble bro, but MLS isn't that good.