Eski Situation - NYT Article

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by nick, Aug 28, 2005.

  1. Th4119

    Th4119 Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Annandale, VA
    Reis must be the worst all-star goalie in the league if he's just "arriving late" while he is attacking various players.
     
  2. Th4119

    Th4119 Member

    Jul 26, 2001
    Annandale, VA
    Re: NY Times article mentions Reis/Eski incident

    I wish he had. Someone there might have gotten him for it.
     
  3. mkpage

    mkpage Member

    Jun 9, 1999
    Alexandria, VA
    Between the Esky/Reis incident and the game in which Twellman shoved Stokes into Rimando in game #2 of the series, it's safe to say that United has had their share of bad luck this season against the Revs.
     
  4. metoo

    metoo Member+

    Jun 17, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Re: Eski may be out permanently

    Well, I was defining late as arriving after the opponent had gotten the ball. The slide tackle reference you make I assume means someone goes into a slide and hits the opponent after that opponent has touched the ball on. Esky did not get to the ball first. If anything, the ball hit Reis first, though it did miss his outstretched hands which he was trying to catch the ball with.

    What does how soon he jumps have to do with anything? As I said earlier, had he kept his feet and just run all the way, there still would have been a nasty, nasty collision, where Esky would probably still have come out worse than Reis, because he’s smaller (perhaps he still would have gotten a concussion, perhaps he wouldn’t have, no one can say). And what do you mean by "fists upraised"? His palms are up, as in his hands were open, when the ball just missed them, and at no point does he make a fist. I also just don't understand some people's contention that because the ball missed Reis's hands by inches, he therefore had to be going for the man, not the ball.

    Anyway, whatever, you guys will think he's a thug, we'll think that players sometimes collide, sometimes resulting in unfortunate injuries, when going for 50-50 balls, I see little point in discussing it further.

    And upon further review, the proper links weren't posted in this thread, so here they are:

    http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/sights/index.jsp?club=mls&week=0619 (5:30 into the highlight)
    http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/sights/index.jsp?club=mls&week=0710 :)45 seconds into the highlight)
    http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/sights/index.jsp?club=mls&week=0821 (5:15 into the highlight)
     
  5. revelation

    revelation Member+

    Dec 17, 1998
    FC St. Pauli
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Re: Eski may be out permanently

    Esky had no opportunity to get the ball because Reis ran over him. At no time did the ball strike Reis. It is the same type of foul as a field player that shields a ball without touching it as the slide tackle comes in to take him out.

    How soon he jumps has everything to do with it. Leaving his feet means he has given up control and is "hoping for the best". Had he stayed grounded he has much more control over his body positioning and could opt to pull out of the challenge, however, once he left his feet he has committed to making the challenge regardless of who or what is in the way. That is why it was a reckless play.
     
  6. Liverpool_SC

    Liverpool_SC Member

    Jun 28, 2002
    Upstate, SC
    Here is the thread that I started in the referee forum immediately after the Reis-Eskandarian play. It got a whole range of responses:

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211479
    This is a type of play that needs more attention from the bodies that regulate the game. As I have mentioned before, in how many leagues do you see goalkeepers attack the ball as aggressively as Reis and get away with making so little of a play on the ball while making such a physical play on the man.

    One rather wonders what kind of splat-mark Peter Shilton could have made of Diego Maradona if he had only subscribed to the Matt "It was a 50-50 ball so I had license" Reis on the "hand of god goal".

    Goalkeeper play in the manner Matt Reis has no place in the Beautiful Game.
     
  7. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Eski may be out permanently

    Man, watching those 3 plays in sequence...this guy is a worse menace than Mamadou Diallo, and I don't say that lightly.

    On the Esky play...he jumps, so he's higher off the ground, then can't reach the ball because it's too low.

    So either he's got the hand-eye coordination to be an elite goalkeeper but managed to misjudge the ball as badly as you'll ever see, or he went after Esky.

    And his foul on Fabrice...there are less physical ways to make the same play.
     
  8. Autogolazo

    Autogolazo BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 19, 2000
    Bombay Beach, CA
    What Reis does is "alligator arm" the ball on both plays. That's an NFL term for not reaching out in full extension because you think you're gonna get hit.

    Instead, he jumps with one foot up and knee out front, with his arms at maybe half extension. He's looking for contact, in other words, and using his knee/leg as a barrier.

    In neither one does he make an effort to reach out for the ball, or do what he should do--punch the ball clear.

    Obviously, the Rolfe foul is unquestionably a PK and red card since Rolfe touched the ball over him and Reis was last man back.

    I still haven't seen anything to compare with the Diallo kick on Amann, but this is clearly a technique Reis has learned and the league is letting him get away with it. It's a case of Reis going in illegally (high boot is still high boot, no matter where you are) AND the league officials being befuddled by the technique, which is clearly meant more to make contact than it is to get anywhere near the ball.
     
  9. Rev-eler

    Rev-eler Member

    Feb 13, 2000
    San Francisco
    Re: NY Times article mentions Reis/Eski incident

    okay....since nobody want to talk about the 'reckless foul' on gomez that put him down for quite a spell and how esky felt about that....then or now. or how reis had ZERO 'history' and reputation ANYWHERE as a thug prior to 6/18. how 'bout you all stop the revisionist history and realize that 99.9% of you guys not only didn't display the venom for that collision back then (or even days/mo's after).....in fact, most all didn't even talk about it in the first place. i'll link 4 threads below (which i read all the way thru) and maybe you all should do the same.

    i think liverpoolfc was just about the ONLY SINGLE PERSON that seemed even remotely ticked about it back then. geez, it's amazing the vast majority went on and on about 3 other fouls in this match and barely made a peep about THE COLLISION. didn't really seem like it was very important back then to anyone. i looked thru post headings into part of july and still couldn't find anything until 7/10 when a.e. started talking about the foul and this just happened to be the day after the rev/fire match.

    DC United vs New England Grades [R]
    thread: length-4 days, posts-16
    summary:
    not one mention made about a 'reckless charge' in this collision. grades for alecko ranged from NR-6.5...with avg of 5 (OUT OF 10). one quote about the incident...
    Brian Hall :: DC United vs. New England Revolution :: Referee Thread [R] [N&A]
    thread: length-5 days, posts-29
    summary:
    bootsy's main sentiment in this thread, 2 full days after the game
    there were a couple people that voiced displeasure over the collision....but, were far outnumbered by people that either wanted to talk about other lame fouls (like smith dragging a foot over nick...more on that in the next link) or people that thought the game was not called too horribly.

    Official New England @ DC United POST Match Thread [R]
    thread: length-3 days, posts-142
    summary:
    ONE POST! one post out of 142 even talked about this collision with some ire....yep, liverpoolsc again. only 1 other post mentioned the collision....and the person said only..."Esky was clearly fouled by Reis". 4 other posts stated that the 'concussions are starting to add up'.....and they make no mention of the collision at all. after that.....it wasn't even a topic of conversation.

    Esky update?
    thread: length-5 days, posts-27
    summary:
    not one single mention of the collision or reis.

    my point? this incident was basically a NON-INCIDENT with most every single poster here until reis apparently 'did it again' and esky started talking 'revenge'. look, i understand how those 2 things could whip people into a frenzy all of a sudden. and i can understand how alecko starting getting frustrated at that time about a slow recovery. but, honestly.....nearly everyone here saw the play, saw replays of the play, had multiple threads/posts related to the game.

    yet, for over 3 weeks ONLY ONE of the posters here even choose to really mention it....let alone build up some venom over it. okay. just wanted to remind people that posters up until 7/10 talked almost exclusively about other fouls that happened in this revs/de game (and how outrageous they were) and whether or not john wilson was injured....than talking about matt 'taking out alecko'.

    it's unfortuante that alecko had other concussions prior to this event and it's unfortunate this event happened. if you reread the 7/10 article...a.e. even says 'i knew he was going to get the ball' which sorta even takes the 50/50 talk out of it. none of us are going to have any clue what matt's intentions were....and i don't think people can interpret intent from 2 other incidents and retroactively apply them all of a sudden....esp since matt didn't even have a rep with posters here in the first place at that time.

    again, alecko has to be able to apply 'reckless' fairly and how it affects someone's career. i don't know what the 'intent' was, but he was reckless and caused someone to be out for over 7-8 weeks. he and you (and me) need to see things a bit more objectively in this case. i'm trying to see it from all sides...and still hope he recovers from the multiple concussions he's suffered playing this game.
     
  10. Liverpool_SC

    Liverpool_SC Member

    Jun 28, 2002
    Upstate, SC
    Re: NY Times article mentions Reis/Eski incident

    At least I was early and consistent.

    But Rev-eler. The main reason for this phenomenon is that most of the posters on this forum were at the game and perhaps did not (being in the supporters sections) have the best angle to see the play.

    However, upon reading that Eski might be DONE, they watched the video again and were troubled by what they saw.

    Let it be said that I am not too mad at the official for missing the call. It was a tough one to make from his position on the field. But that gives no excuse to the league who has protocal for reviewing these types of incidents with a thought towards making sure they don't happen again and providing post-match retribution.

    But Reis has never had any recriminations for his reckless challenge. In fact, most people seem perfectly content with a challenge that I continue to suggest was horrendous.

    Like I said - what if Peter Shilton had taken the Reis approach to Maradona on the hand of God goal? I will tell you one thing - England would have advanced and we never would have seen Diego's slaloming goal and Maradona may have his head screwed on straight with respect to cocaine but he never would have had his head screwed on straight because he still would have been concussed.

    I am not suggesting that Eski is some future Maradona. Only that tackles like the ones perpetrated by Matt Reis on Eski and Rolfe have no place in the Beautiful Game. And I defy anyone to suggest that a tackle like the one against Eski was not reckless (Reis being out of control) and horrific (the amount of contact from knee to head was so direct) and that Matt Reis and Jay Heaps ought to be called into the league office, made to watch it on the biggest screen they can find over and over and asked if that is how they want to be thought of by the fans of this league.

    I am not one to jump on a player simply because someone gets injured due to a foul they commit. Sometimes a horrible foul results in an injury and a player is forever marked. Sometimes a horrible foul results in no injury and no one remembers. But fouls like the one that Reis committed are beyond the pale.

    What the heck was he thinking?
     
  11. brandnew_de

    brandnew_de Member

    Jun 18, 2005
    CT
    Re: NY Times article mentions Reis/Eski incident

    That's the key. He probably wasn't. What he was, was staring at a 50/50 situation with who was, only last season, one of the most dangerous strikers in MLS. He didn't have the time to think of anything smarter. Was it reckless? Yes, it probably was. There are probably an infinite number of things he could and should have done instead. However, he didn't have the time, and at that point in the game, the inclination to think about it. He did what was probably the safest thing for him to do. Hindsight is 20/20. He reacted to the play as it happened.
     
  12. Rev-eler

    Rev-eler Member

    Feb 13, 2000
    San Francisco
    liverpool_sc....i agree with some of the things you are saying. but, there were plenty of posters that watched this on tv. i'm assuming that some/many dc fans that go to the games...tape the games too. and i'm sure that many posters watch the highlights on mlsnet (where your announcers watched it over and over again and claimed no intent)

    again, i'm not trying to say one way or the other whether he was reckless or not....i'm not going to know. and no matter how many times i've seen the video...i still can't tell. i play some keeper and i know that in the competitive men's lg in mass that i played in....the keepers NEVER get protected. i had 5 broken fingers in 2 years...some coming from fwds that decided having the ball in my hands didn't mean an end to the play. heck, the worst broken finger saw gus st silva reffing the match (he hasn't gotten really any better, btw). but, i do know that if the ball is in the box....the goalie has got to go after the ball AND protect themselves in the process.

    i disagree with your assesment that he looked like a 'long jumper' on that play and if i really wanted to go completely opposite...i'm sure i could make an argument that he jumped and had his knees up thinking he'd get the ball and alecko would go down. i have no clue if that was really the case either.

    we all know good things happen to bad people sometimes and vice-versa and everything in between. heck, if reis and heaps are supposed to be called into the principal now....don't you think it would've been soooo obvious that people here would've been calling for it from the get-go. and if they should go b/f a tribunal....heck, dema should've been outta this league 2 years ago then (not that people here are all that pleased with him anyway). not that dema's actions need to reflects on the fans of d.c.....but, i can't even remember if he got fined for saying he'd 'break rob's leg again'?

    anyway, i digress. are you saying if alecko comes back a week later....no harm, no foul? what changed? the collision didn't. so, b/c alecko's had prior MULTIPLE concussions and reis has made a couple other plays where people feel like all of a sudden they can 'place intent'....it justifies the outrage that exists now....when for at least 3 weeks NOBODY except for you even gave much of 2 thoughts about 'intent' and/or reis being a thug?

    i guess i just don't buy that everyone 'just woke up'.
    it's soccer....it's emotional....alecko's a hugely emotional person in the first place...fans are emotional....i get it.

    i guess i would've thought that had it been so egregious that people would've been pissed 'at the time' and not when it becomes more convenient. for example, i think most all of dema's career reds people have been pretty noticable from the get go.

    it's not worth going on about i guess.
    i can't really wish 'good luck' to any other team in mls...but, i think we'd all look fwd to another playoff matchup...and we'd look forward getting a little 'match payback' come oct/nov
    :)
     
  13. elconejito

    elconejito Member

    Dec 24, 2002
    Where Homer Lives
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here is my take on the reis situation. I hadnt thought of him as thugish or dangerous before this season. But the esky play made me watch a little closer, and it seems to me that he comes out *very* aggressively to challenge on crosses/5050 balls. When he makes his move towards the ball he makes a purposeful effort to make contact with the nearest opposing player whether or not they are "in the path" to the ball.

    Its reminiscent of Karl Malone late in his career running down the lane with his foot in the air to clear a path. He actually ended up doing this for most of a season, IIRC, and PO'd a bunch of people who had his foot planted in their chest for standing under the basket. It was Karl's way of intimidating people "If you stay there and defend my shot your gonna get hurt, so its better if you just move outta my way". To call attention to it, I think somebody even went so far as to catch his foot once and hold it while Karl fell to the ground. To prove the point that he wasnt moving, and to get the ref's attention.

    Why does he do it? Maybe he used to get clipped alot like Nick Rimando does now, and he got tired of it. So now he makes sure all strikers give him a wide berth by trying to intimidate them. It works, as only the brave ones go near him now.

    What will be interesting to me is what happens when other keepers start doing the same. What if Nick starts doing that as payback for every time hes been clipped this year and last? I suspect he wont get the same treatment...
     
  14. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    Rev-ler, here's my personal take.

    1. Through it all (including posts on the Revs boards), I've always maintained that we don't know Reis' intent. We're not mind readers here and unless Reis comes out and says "there's nothing I like more in the morning than the smell of napalm and the cries of concussed players" we'll never know. Frankly, I tend to err on the side of the player being human and not deliberately trying to hurt someone. I think all players who've reached the professional level respect the effort of others to get there and just instinctively don't want to end it for others. The Roy Keane incident is probably a very rare exception in my experience. I've also resisted the cries that Reis and Dema are similar.

    2. And I also tend to cut GKs a lot of slack. They're exposed going up for balls. And I've seen Nick Rimando get leveled a few times (which contributes to some of his gunshy behavior on crosses).

    3. I think the larger issue with Reis for most of us is there seems to be a pattern of behavior. You say "not prior to June." But Reis wasn't much of a starter before then--very few minutes. And not an especially notable keeper. He's reved it up (no pun intended) this year. He's a different player. And a number of players look at the Eskandarian incident (with the resulting impact), the Rolfe play, the Noel play and it looks like a trend to playing out of control. To argue "you didn't say anything before June" doesn't work here b/c Reis didn't have much of a record before that--it would be like trying to argue that Doug Warren is strong on PKs or Perkins with DCU is dirty--based upon their limited experience.

    My personal take is this: coaches coach their teams to play particular styles and approaches. DCU with Nowak for instance has always been a team with Piotr that has been coached to deny quick transitions. The team isn't dirty (not out to hurt people or cause pain) but has under Nowak ALWAYS fouls to deny a quick break or slow play. The team always trys to delay restarts. That attributes significantly to why DCU is among the leagues leaders this year and the last year in fouls committed. That's who we are.

    Part of who the Revs have evolved into is a team that definitely puts your body on you. The Revs (from my perspective) push a lot. All teams push and pull. The Revs seek to put a body on you. Freddy Adu has complained repeatedly about it (all teams do it, I think the Revs just do it more). Again, I'm not arguing that the Revs are out to hurt people or are a dirty team (any more than DCU is). But I think this is something that Nicols coaches his team to do and how they play the game. I don't know if this has contributed to the push by Twellman of Stokes in the first Revs-Ne game or what I perceive to be a more aggressive approach by Reis. But that's my take on it.
     
  15. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: NY Times article mentions Reis/Eski incident

    Why did he jump, and then miss the ball because it was too low? Jesus, I had better hand-eye coordination than that when I was 7 years old. This guy is an elite GK.
     
  16. Rev-eler

    Rev-eler Member

    Feb 13, 2000
    San Francisco
    joe...i hear what you're saying.

    however, reis started every game against you guys last year (incl playoffs) and started 3/4+ of the games last year for the revs. and 2 games v dc prior to 6/18. i'd hardly say he's an unknown factor.....you guys got 7 looks at him prior to 6/18.

    as far as physical play goes...i just don't see it. given the way you're couching it and throwing in freddy's complaints (which would imply fouls should be called) i'm assuming you think the revs are high in the 'fc' category. but, the revs have just 335 fc, 42 c and 1 e....that's 3rd lowest in mls for fc, 4th lowest for yellows and tied for second lowest in reds.

    and you may be right about dc's stats (and why)...from the top, dc is 4th in fc (392), 6th in yellows (45) and tied for 2nd in reds (4). i guess one could argue, and in dema's case have argued that reputation plays a factor. if you want to argue that....then it would seem the revs just don't have the 'rep'. if you argue 'rep' doesn't play a huge factor....then the revs might be playing physical (in your opinion)....but, don't cause fouls...plain and simple.

    here's my take on reis' foibles.
    i agree with your 'revved it up' this year....
    -2nd full season of starting under his belt.
    -getting nat team looks
    -best team in the league, plus leads lg in g.d. and g.a.
    -plays in a relatively 'vulnerable' 3 back type of scheme that sees him up near the very top in saves and shots faced.
    ...i think he's playing with major confidence (too much?...can you ever have too much?) and that 3 back scheme means he's forced to make really quick decisions that put him into more dangerous sit's than you might see with one extra dedicated defender. i have yet to see the play against rolfe. the col one was really stupid, clearly. esky? reckless, maybe. but, again, esky said he knew reis was going to get the ball. i'm not sure reis knew that. but, i can definitely see how people can argue it on both sides as being reckless or not.

    again, i can't ask this anymore times....
    the thing that really triggered this whole discussion was esky's 'petke-like revenge talk' 3 weeks after the incident. by july 10th, he had over 3 mo's to reflect on a 'reckless' foul, from behind, that DID get called by the ref that knocked someone out for 8 games...and has affected that person's season after that. clearly, he's frustrated b/c he's seeing his health deterioriate as a result of multiple concussions. but, he's no angel. he's says himself that in the course of a game it gets physical and stuff happens.

    i'd just love for him to wear the other hat for a moment.
    for his foul....is his opinion (and the dc posters', i guess) "stuff happens"
    but for reis'....his opinion is "i'm gonna git you sucka"

    ....if the ire for reis here is 'outcome' based....then, i think he comes off looking like a hyprocrite. if he lays one down on reis sometime are people going to secretly (or not so secretly) say 'he got what he deserved'. but, if gomez lays one down on alecko.....are there going to be 10 gomez is a thug threads? does that make any sense?
     
  17. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rev-eler, first time I saw the play I thought it was unnecessary (not to mention dangerous) for Reis to lead with his knee.

    There are lots of ways to go for that ball without knee and studs leading the way. And Reis may want to re-think his strategy for his ouwn safety, otherwise he's just as likely to need reconstructive surgery after one of these encounters.

    Do I think of Reis as a dirty player? No, but a pattern of dangerous and reckless plays is hard to argue with, and 3 significant events is well on the way to establishing a pattern.
     
  18. Liverpool_SC

    Liverpool_SC Member

    Jun 28, 2002
    Upstate, SC
    All of this stuff is a load of hooey. Rimando plays in the same conditions that Reis does (3 man backline with lots of youth and inexperience) and his GAA (after last night) is better than Reis's. He even has more shutouts. He plays as a sweeper-keeper as much as any gk in the league. He comes off his line as quickly as any gk in the league.

    And yet he almost never gets into collisions, let alone collisions when he is out of control like Reis. I don't know how many times this season I have seen Rimando fly past a forward or jump over a forward and acrobatically (considering how small he is) grab a cross or lob without even touching the attacking player. Rimando has been playing regularly during most of the history of MLS and he hasn't been in the kind of collisions that Reis has gotten into 3 times this season during his entire career. Even if Reis is not a headhunter, he goes out of his way (or at least out of the ball's way) to make contact with other players. At the same time, Rimando gets clipped and kicked as much as anyone. For instance, Khano Smith and Marshall Leonard both stepped on him in one half of play earlier this year (that is the kind of crap that gets the Revs on our "dirty play" list).

    And I guarantee you this. Reis might fiddle around in national team camps and worthless friendlies. But with the body of evidence that he is compiling this season - BA would be absolutely insane to play him in a meaningful match. Those plays we have spilt so much (electronic) ink over are calls that would go against him as often as not in international play and one thing that USMNT cannot afford is a keeper picking up pks and/or red cards for idiotic challenges high in the box.

    DC gets tons of fouls called because of guys like Gros or Carroll who knock a guy off the ball or give him a little tug as they are going by. We get as many ticky tacky calls as any team in the league because of how much we pursue the ball. And Dema is playing very thuggish again, unfortunately, but what other player getting major minutes on our side is regularly making even a semblence of dirty plays? Do we run over goalkeepers? Even our chippier players like Gros and Olsen don't make particularly hard fouls. And as far as our yellow cards go - how many of those are for plays committed on the field and how many are stupid dissent calls on Bobby Boswell? It rather makes a difference.

    On the other hand, over the past season we have seen hard fouls from Shalrie Joseph (within the first 30 seconds of the Eastern Conference championship), hard fouls by Jay Heaps, the reckless tackle by Reis, the Twellman push that led to David Stokes's concussion, the cheap shots on our keeper by several of your players . . . and those are just in our games. I have seen lots of other questionable plays while watching you against other teams.

    DC picks up lots of fouls to be sure, but apart from Dema, who is not getting lots of support from DC fans for the plays he has been making in the last month, you don't see us going out and throwing ourselves around this way.

    There simply doesn't seem to be as calculated an effort by DC to clip, push, elbow, tackle studs-up, etc as there is when the Revs face DC. I might be biased, but I am trying to call them as I see them.
     
  19. Bwana

    Bwana New Member

    Oct 27, 2004
    Darnestown, MD
    But then again, if Nicky ran into someone they may not even notice and it's more likely to hurt him than them. :rolleyes:
     
  20. MattMathai

    MattMathai BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 28, 2004
    Annapolis
    Do yourself (and us) a favor and look at the Rolfe play. Not having seen all the incidents renders many of your points about a lack of an emerging pattern of violence less than valid. The Colorado play was not 'stupid'. It bordered on criminal, and should have been severely punished. I have seldom seen such cynical, indefensible play from a professional. I'm surprised the COL players didn't administer a beating on the field.

    Reis is taking advantage of the cushion (rightly) granted to goalkeepers, and is getting away with murder.
     
  21. Liverpool_SC

    Liverpool_SC Member

    Jun 28, 2002
    Upstate, SC
    Yeah, like other guys don't already run into Nicky every game. Besides, the dude is solid. He just isn't tall. There aren't many players in MLS who are as solid as Nicky. Especially when you consider the body composition of most of the "stout" goalkeepers in MLS.

    I have no doubt that Nicky could give as good as he gets in lots of situations. He just chooses not to play like that.
     
  22. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    Rev-ler, your foul count doesn't matter in this. My point is that two teams could have an equal number of fouls yet those could be very different types of fouls.

    DCU probably does a "better" job than any team in the league at fouling to delay or slow transitions. DCU players will pick up the ball on throw-ins or stand on the ball going "what? It's not our ball?" until the defense gets back. Defenders are encouraged to slow the restart (be on top of a downed attacker, lay on the ball). I'd hate it if I had to play against DCU. But it's effective. Teams Nowak was on with Chicago did exactly the same thing. That's why FIFA is cracking down on delaying tactics like this. DCU gets ALOT of fouls from pulling on shirts when there's a sudden attack so the defense can get back and regroup and get organized.

    I'm not arguing the Revs foul more or harder or worse. I'm arguing that while ALL teams share some of the same fouls (dissent fouls, desperation fouls when out of position, out of control fouls, professional fouls), if you were to analyze the mix of fouls, well coached teams will have patterns. I'm arguing that the Revs very clearly seek to either push player (all teams push but the Revs perhaps do it more or harder) and to use physical contact (putting a body on someone, encouraging contact) more. Part of it is guys like Joseph and Heaps can handle it. Part of this also explains why Twellman has missed so many games--yes, all forwards take abuse but Twellman isn't afraid to get in the mix and doesn't shy away from contact. Now I don't know if the Reis incidents with Eskandarian, Rolfe and Noel are a result of this.

    What I do know is that Rimando is leading MLS in shutouts, his record this year in terms of GA, etc. is as good as Reis'. He has more games/minutes in his career than does Reis. Can you point to any injuries as a result of plays by Rimando? And Rimando plays with a 3-man backline with a lot of youth (all of the excuses you give Reis).

    You say we got 7 looks at Reis. My point is: he hasn't been a consistent starter in MLS for 4-5 years. You can look at guys in MLS who play goal. Hartman, Rimando, despite being regular starters, how many injuries can you point to as a result of contact with either player? How many examples of contact that have draw an irate reaction? If it were just 1 example, I'd probably just blow it off as a fluke. And again, I'm not saying Reis is a thug or was out to get Eskandarian. But Reis probably has more examples to point at in just this season than Rimando and Hartman do over their entire careers combined? What's that about?
     
  23. Liverpool_SC

    Liverpool_SC Member

    Jun 28, 2002
    Upstate, SC
    No kidding. In this play, Reis would definitely be guilty of a 15 yard penalty for roughing the kicker in the NFL. Rolfe actually made a play on the ball (high boot, but definitely playing the ball) and flicked it over Reis. Reis completely misses the ball. IIRC it does not even touch him indirectly/passively like it did in the Esky play. And then he mows over Rolfe.

    In the tackle, Reis deviates from the path of the ball and flat-out takes out the guy who is still following through from making contact with the ball.

    He rather does have a point here. The play is only a few clicks away . . .

    This is the real issue. Goalkeepers need to be able to take a direct route to the ball so that they can make a play on the ball. If this means some contact, so be it. But if they do not end up playing the ball at all because they mistime their challenge - then they should suffer the consequences.

    The more reckless/out-of-control/aggressive the attempted tackle, the more important it is that the goalkeeper catch, punch or make a solid parry on the ball.

    Reis is making a habit of getting into these challenges without playing the ball. He is very much abusing the leeway a keeper should have to make contact.

    The attacking player has a right to make a play on the ball too. Reis is not respecting that AT ALL.
     
  24. revelation

    revelation Member+

    Dec 17, 1998
    FC St. Pauli
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Didn't Reis also take out Cerritos early in the season last year? Outside the box, Cerritos put the ball past him and Reis just leveled him.
     
  25. Bwana

    Bwana New Member

    Oct 27, 2004
    Darnestown, MD
    That was a cross-wind in Gillette Stadium. Cerritos is susceptible to those... :p
     

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