English players Dual Nationality thread

Discussion in 'England' started by Simon Barnes, Apr 22, 2015.

  1. Flying Columnist

    Flying Columnist New Member

    Villa
    Aug 30, 2020
    It stems from a tweet by JBs father last night where he (Mark) highlights himself being half Irish. In that twitter conversation it came up.

    Haven't seen anything like the reaction mentioned above to the news on any Irish forum. And it hasn't gained any traction other than to be dismissed as a long shot / not happening, to be fair.

    I think its incorrect also to tar all Irish with the drift net brush when it comes to dual lads or eligible lads. I see plenty opinion who don't actually want this. They want players in the side who that jersey means everything to, same as you roverman.
     
  2. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    Wait until @roverman realises that Musah at Valencia has triple nationality. Maybe one more.
     
    roverman repped this.
  3. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    Which ones? Which ones?
     
  4. ADM99

    ADM99 Member

    Apr 28, 2019
    USA (born), Ghana (parents) & Italy (lived there for 9 years). Also eligible for England of course, having lived here for 5 years.
     
    roverman repped this.
  5. Iansutton270390

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Jan 12, 2019
    Well I'm not trying to cause anything here but I completely echo rovermans sentiments regarding dual nationals produced in England. Why put all our time and resources into developing a player who will just line up for another country? It's cutting off our nose to spite our face.
     
    roverman repped this.
  6. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    The parents thing for me is an irrelevance. Fine lived in Italy born in USA came through English system but having parents born in a country u might not have visited? Gtfo
     
  7. AJ123

    AJ123 Member

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    There could be a triple-pronged snaffle operation brewing as we speak.
     
    dbs235 and roverman repped this.
  8. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Woah! Hang on, so you’re saying the parents don’t or won’t have influence on a players choice on who they might want to play for? That’s a massive influence on so many players to be honest.
     
    IGSpur repped this.
  9. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    Just saying that playing for a country based on where ur parents are born is wrong. I didn't restart this argument so I think I will leave it there
     
  10. ADM99

    ADM99 Member

    Apr 28, 2019
    For the record he was only born in the US because his parents were on holiday there at the time. So I don't think he has any sort of affinity towards them.
     
  11. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    It’s cool, I’m not having an argument with you. I just think it’s based on individual basis though imo, in Musahs case I think both parents are from Ghana so that could be a big pull but it also might not, I guess it depends on how passionate they are or equally maybe they appreciate the County they currently reside in, presumably England now but to be honest only they know however I do think it’s quite relevant in my opinion.
     
    roverman repped this.
  12. TopBanana10

    TopBanana10 Member+

    Millwall
    England
    Sep 8, 2018
    Must we have the same argument every week?
     
    dbs235 repped this.
  13. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof

    That's my fault. I was just winding @roverman up.
     
    roverman repped this.
  14. itfcjoe

    itfcjoe Member

    Oct 8, 2014
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    England don't put the effort in, the clubs do, as they are assets.

    If we had a Lilleshall again, or a Clairefontaine, then it would be worse as a national team - but ultimately those doing the youth development are your Chelea's, Man City's, Arsenal's etc who are global businesses.

    The club's don't want them going off to represent African countries as it's much easier for them to spend international breaks in Europe - but the same clubs are happy for them to go off to Wales early as it helps their development and their value
     
    Athlone and Iansutton270390 repped this.
  15. everthong

    everthong New Member

    Aug 13, 2014
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Not a single Irish fan on Ybig are 'wetting' themselves over the prospect of Bellingham playing for Ireland. Someone posted a link to a tweet from his dad stating that he has Irish blood and the comment was dismissed immediately.

    Nor did anyone want Jack Grealish to play for Ireland after he declared for England. Any media reports I saw that suggested he would consider playing for Ireland again, were from the British press.

    There is a lot of disadain on here from England fans towards a host of smaller countries who have capped dual eligible players, and it's all a bit over the top.

    Only 23 men can make an international squad at a time, England has a population of over 50 million people, not every single talented player born in England will get the chance to represent you, so other countries use this to their advantage and offer caps. Is it really an advantage if England have no use for the player?

    The Welsh rather shamelessly cap 16 year old English kids to tie them down. Ireland doesn't do this. Declan Rice played three times for us so he clearly was happy enough until he had a chat with Southgate and considered his options, but he wasn't manipulated into playing for us.

    The reasoning behind Wales capping so many dual eligible players is simple. Firstly, they have no few football acadamies of their own, their biggest clubs are part of the English pyramid.

    Secondly, Wales isn't really a country. A young English man with a Welsh grandad and a British passport can drive across the 'border' (provincial border) and back to represent Wales in an underage game without any hassle. A young man with an Irish grandad has to obtain an Irish passport and listen to a load of brexiteers shouting 'no surrender' and 'don't play for them thick paddies'.

    Expect to see fewer dual eligible English men called up for Ireland in the coming years, we've finally sorted out our academies and underages structures and have a very talented group of individuals coming through our 19s and 21s at the moment. And we've an abundance (by our standards) of young players breaking through at senior level at the moment. Troy Parrott, Aaron Connolly, Michael Obafemi, Adam Idah, Mark Travers, Jason Knight and Dara O'Shea to name a few. We'll be decent in the years to come when our new mamager settles and clears out the deadwood.

    Just a quick point on Will Smallbone, I'd imagine he'll stick with Ireland, he isn't exactly setting the world a light and if he continues to play semi regularly at Premier League level then he'll be on par with most of our squad meaning he'll get a call up on merit. He hasnt done anything eye catching enough yet to warrant realistic attention from Southgate. I also believe that his father is Irish, as opposed to grandparents, so his ties to Ireland are stronger than many who have represented us previously.
     
    Athlone, dbs235, roverman and 1 other person repped this.
  16. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    Good post. I have no problem with anyone playing for a country if they REALLY want to
     
  17. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    Disagree with ur point about Wales though. It IS a country. If u want to call it a principality of England then fair enough. But the UK is a kingdom of countries. All with their own cultural differences just as Ireland has. Wales and Scotland are closer to Ireland than England as they are all celts.
     
  18. Flying Columnist

    Flying Columnist New Member

    Villa
    Aug 30, 2020
    #2543 Flying Columnist, Sep 16, 2020 at 5:50 AM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020 at 5:59 AM

    All fair points.

    Also worth noting, on closer analysis, Ireland could have cap tied both Grealish and Rice but didn't. Grealish had cancelled a holiday during Martin O'Neills time which clashed with a US trip in the hope he'd be taken because it was a fringe / young squad in the closed season.

    Rice was in the extended squad for Moldova in the WC qualifier, Ireland won it as expected and could easily have tied him that night and because he turned up to a WC qualifying game, I can only assume that at that point he'd have played.

    Could have tied both, but didn't, its a relevant point in all this.
     
  19. AJ123

    AJ123 Member

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    I don't think this is true. There's one poster that has a BIG problem with it. Most are philosophical about the issue.

    That's a hot take fella. Maybe you should try it in a live setting

    https://apostlewelshfootie.proboards.com/board/1/welsh-footie
     
    IGSpur repped this.
  20. everthong

    everthong New Member

    Aug 13, 2014
    Club:
    Everton FC
    I mean technically it is a country, but it's undoubtedly more difficult for a young dual eligible english born kid to play for Wales rather than Ireland. While they would argue all night with me for saying this, the Welsh have more in common than England when compared to Ireland or Scotland.

    I think English people generally find the Welsh inoffensive so it's not as big a deal for a young lad who is trying to make a career for himself to go and play a few games
    Oh believe me I have told them several times.

    The lads on Apostle seemed to take a disliking to a certain James McClean scoring against them in a crucial world cup qualifier a few years ago. I wonder why that is?

    Anyway my point remains. It's less of a hindrance for a talented young English player to play for Wales if he's dual eligible, when compared to Ireland.

    He doesnt have to get a flight or claim a new passport and at the end of the day, petty footballing rivalries aside, noone in England really considers the Welsh as enemies or rivals.

    The Welsh will tell you otherwise, but they're all fart and no shit, history will tell you that.
     
    roverman repped this.
  21. Iansutton270390

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Jan 12, 2019
    I've got absolutely no problem with players representing other countries if they get to 26/27 and are nowhere near the England squad. What I don't like is the Welsh picking players when they're still in school just to cap tie them for the future incase they come good.
    People will have different opinions on this but to me it's completely unethical.
    At least with Ireland, they leave it until the player is about 19/20 before they start asking them to represent Ireland at full international level.
     
    roverman repped this.
  22. roverman

    roverman Member

    Dec 22, 2001
    We find the welsh very offensive now. Ever since they got a lucky semi final 4 years ago they think they are a big team. They're a small football nation. Smaller than Ireland
     
  23. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    W.A.S.P. repped this.
  24. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
  25. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Not sure if it’s either of them to be honest but he’s a snitch who seems to imply we’re all the same! He probably is a Portuguese poster from this forum to be honest but obviously too gutless to come and take his grievances here!
     
    roverman repped this.

Share This Page