We'll see on Finneran. These guys heritage affords them career choices, as I see it. Quite apart from how they identify as people, Irish / English / frequently both. Now when they've survived the multiple academy system culls, got the pro deal, made first team, have international call ups ... why not max the career earnings ? That's the name of the game surely. I know I would. I'm fine with our approach too. I want our players to want to be out there, representing me, wherever they were born. Rice, I'm fine with also due exactly to my previous paragraph. He's 3G, it's a secondary identity, it can be meaningful, but it isn't the prime one. It can't be. Finneran is also 3G.
Around the Ben Woodburn time, didn't they do a bit of a speculative round up no ? Apart from just Woodburn that is.
They called up some 16 year olds without playing them like Roberts and Wilson (though he's Welsh) which I guess in the case of Roberts was pretty cynical. With Wales though their squad depth is so little that even with heavy dual recruitment they need to round out with League One, sometimes League Two players (their World Cup squad had 2 players from League 2). With that in mind I guess their calculation is that a player doesn't need to be much more than good enough to go pro to be in wider squad contention hence capping someone like Ampadu at 17 who was already playing in League 2 probably wasn't such a crazy assumption he'd be a regular for them. Northern Ireland seem to have the same kind of policy with duals, except with even worse depth. Scotland and Ireland at least can almost always round out squads with championship at minimum standard players which shifts the equation a bit.
No problem with Wales cap tying players that aren't good enough for England. Ampadu for example would have got nowhere near the England squad. My problem is when they cry bloody murder whenever we dare to look at one of their players.
Martin O'Neill essentially said on talkSPORT a couple of years ago that he didn't bring Rice on in a competitive game because he would've refused at the time. He said deep down he knew his ultimate goal was England. Hard to know whether or not to take that at face value but that was his claim.
The reason why players chose to play for one nation over another are varied. Ampadu sacked off England because he didn't like some of the feedback from one of the coaches. Some players like Gary Breen have a really strong sense of national identity. Some like McAteer are just looking for their best chance to play in a major tournament. I'm sceptical that many opt for England simply based on earning potential. Declan Rice and Jack Grealish are English born and both have Irish and English in heritage. Grealish's great-grandfather played for England. This profile of player is always risky investment for a smaller nation like Ireland because there's a big chance of them having split loyalty. I don't know much about Finneran but his he has a lot of caps for someone his age so that suggests he's pretty committed to Ireland at this point.
Grealish was a massive England fan on social media and always got into bother with Irish fans because of it. He was doing it all whilst playing for Ireland youth teams. There is no way he would have accepted Ireland senior calls to tie him down. He was always the most highly talked of prospect in that age group and the decision was always going to be made for certain eventually. It wasn’t as if he was a player under the radar that nobody knew about. Ireland tried everything to keep him in their youth set up from early on but England always wanted him. I can maybe understand the frustration with the Rice case but the Grealish one was a very cynical one from their side. I really don’t understand how you could be shocked when he eventually switched or hold true animosity. I don’t think he’s ever claimed that. It was just an Exeter coach that said one scout said something. Ampadu was competing with arguably the best CB pairing in world youth football at the time. So, he wasn’t guaranteed any game time with England (maybe not even a squad place). Whilst Wales could over promote him to pretty much any level. If you were to assume it was an England issue related that swayed him I think that is likely to be why he sided with Wales. With a Welsh parent it could have just been solely a more natural decision for him though.
Fair point on Ampadu. The source is a bit shaky. Personally I did think he had really high potential but has fallen a bit short of that. Grealish said himself that he was always going to play for England. He probably never would've played for Ireland if he wasn't taken ill at his first England call up, which was before he played for Ireland. I think the Irish can feel a bit aggrieved about a player that kept accepting call ups when they wanted to switch eventually. As you say, the Rice situation will sting because they could've cap-tied him and I do think he would've made a big difference to this Ireland side. I really rate Rice, I think he's both a really good player and a really big character. From the Irish point of view if they got both Grealish and Rice then they would've had those two big players that could've pushed them into tournament qualification. A bit like Bale and Ramsey did for Wales.
I've said this before but if you recruit players as kids at 15-16, whose link is 1 or 2 grand parents you really can't or shouldn't be surprised if they eventually switch back.
He was rated by England scouts enough to be involved but you have to be prepared to compete. Maybe if he had come through in a less competitive age group he might have got embedded into our system. So many circumstantial issues are involved in these cases and you are still never sure if it could have changed anything in the long run. He played for Ireland first because they had an U15 team and we didn’t. We used to all question the FA types on social media about why Ireland and Wales had U15 squads and we didn’t. That meant other nations were picking players before we could. Then he was sick for that England U16 camp and started being promoted beyond his age group. When nations do this they can basically say to the player we rate you very highly and you will be tested more against older players etc. Maybe he should have rejected call ups but the FA’s of these nations know the player is still making his decision. They are trying to convince the player and encourage them to stay in the set up at every opportunity. What is ironic is that nations like Ireland would have voted for the rule change to make senior caps meaningless. Now they are in situations when they are capping players at senior level and are still unsure if they even want to play for them. It is a farcical situation but is a repercussion that many didn’t seem to foresee.
It actually surprises me how surprised the Irish get when this happens to them. Considering they have the largest disapora in the world and have had many foreign born players represent them, they are pretty closed minded with dual nationality players.
they don't fast track? that's the whole scandal with Rice they capped him before he was a first team player
I don't take that interview at face value personally, many people dont and he wasn't definitive on it, he more suggested it while coming under criticism on several fronts about the latter part of his tenure. It was an easy out because the one guy who could clarify that isn't going to. O'Neill is conservative / reluctant on duals also, he's on record several times on that. He lied about other things to save face, O'Neill. Then he cried about not being judged fairly as he's from the north, which is horse siht. His ego & sense of self wouldn't allow him to admit the error anyway so he found a cheap blame angle.
Countries like Wales, Ireland and Northern Ireland have so little depth its genuinely very hard to say if they fast track players. Rice was called up to the Ireland Senior squad days after his PL debut at the back end of the 2017 season, without having started a Pro League game and with one minute of senior league football. He didn't actually play for the senior Irish team until 9 months later.
Mateus Mane (Wolves), Daniel Da Costa (Sheff Wednesday) & Neithan Barbosa (Man United) have all been at Portugal camps this week. Mane was with the U17s while Da Costa & Barbosa, who are both '08s, were with the '09s at an U15 camp.
I saw an interview on Youtude with Paddy Lacey who is Shea's older brother. He was in various academies as a kid but didn't make and is now a pro-boxer. In the interview he mentions how his agent got Ireland to come and watch him because if you're an youth international it basically looks good on your CV for boot deals etc. That's the reality were faced with now when it comes to duals that aren't good enough for an England call-up yet, they will be pursued by other nations and advised to play for them by their agents. In most cases the player won't ever be good enough to play for England but I'm sure we'll lose a good player or two to this dynamic in years to come.
What Chido Obi-Martin is doing in the U18 league is unbelievable. #afc 4 goals before half-time 🔥 pic.twitter.com/DN7KVbPB4d— TheSecretScout (@TheSecretScout_) April 13, 2024
Can't see him coming back to us anytime soon given he'd have to file a one-time switch but if he turns out to be as good as he looks like he could be then hopefully we can persuade him over here in a few years. Should definitely qualify via residency at that point.
He will surely have to do a lot more than score goals in the U18 league to get a senior call up to the Danish senior squad.
Yeah, he's not a promising profile for winning back really. No English parentage, came here as an older child and would have to file a one time switch to do so.