England Senior National Team General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'England' started by BarryfromEastenders, Jul 15, 2024.

  1. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    I think Wharton is a rare talent, but ultimately it'll come down to how he's played and who he's alongside. If he's the only comfortable passer in a midfield full of athletes or players who are constantly 30 yards ahead of him then it won't help much, but in a balanced side he could be a huge player for us.

    You're right though - we have plenty of top players, but we've all seen that shoving them into the team isn't enough on its own to guarantee convincing performances.
     
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  2. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    that stat wheel shows the diff

    one sis a progressive passer from deep the other is a cm that gets forward and dribbles the ball
     
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  3. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    If we're being fair, Lamine Yamal played an entire season for Barcelona, playing Champions League football, competing with at the absolute highest level for a team with a tonne of pressure on them. Wharton played 15 games for Crystal Palace, most of which they had absolutely zero stakes riding on them.

    Of all the criticisms of Southgate, he did have Mainoo starting every knock out game so I don't think its age alone that was stopping him. I think Wharton is being a bit overrated on here, his pass completion of 78% isn't exactly that of the midfield metronome he's being built up to be. Of course some of that is his club tactics as well, but then it seems unrealistic to expect him to go to England and be dictating games. I don't think England's knock out stages would have meaningfully improved if you swapped Mainoo out for him.
     
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  4. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    I know its not the premiership but he played a full season in the championship. Which is regarded as one of the better leagues in Europe.
     
  5. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    It probably is, but it's hard to watch this 20-minute video of his half-season at Palace and not feel that he does a number of crucial things better than our existing midfielders. It's not just the passing and the defensive contributions, but also the clever little movements that he constantly makes to give his defenders an out-ball or his fellow midfielders an option that actually deals their side an advantage, rather than simply the means to tap the ball around under increasing pressure until they lose it.

    Fundamentally, it's about his football intelligence in every respect, and his apparently intuitive understanding of space. We have a somewhat justified reputation for producing endless midfielders with a flair for the spectacular but far too few who can find the simple solution to a complicated situation on the pitch, and he really looks like he can. Yes, it's only half a season at the top level, and if people were putting him on the level of Rodri etc. already then that would clearly be ridiculous, but a man in the desert who gets excited by the sight of a small oasis isn't overrating water. We don't have anyone quite like him at the moment, and it shows.
     
  6. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Rather than hoping a specific player can help improve our issues we should just focus on getting more CM balance. Identifying what we need from individual roles in a system and giving the players the experience of playing with each other.

    Defensively aware player, player that can play the ball through the lines and is comfortable on the ball. Finally, a box to box dribbler (or even a high energy presser in certain circumstances).

    Not keen on playing number 10’s. They get isolated (tbf this is at least partly Southgate’s systems being so rigid positionally).

    4-3-3. Each option can switch roles depending on the situation. Stick together to support each other. Sounds basic but I don’t think we do this enough. Too many times options don’t have an outlet on the ball from their fellow CM.

    This idea actually happened when we beat Spain. Or at least there was a flicker of light there. We just dumped it because the individual players’ club form declined.

    Dier, Winks and Barkley. It wasn’t perfect and we certainly struggled in the second half but we could beat the press and play a more varied style because we had a range of skill sets in midfield. Even Delph played very well in a deeper role against Croatia but never played the role again.

    We should be able to work with the options available on a system that allows us to be more adaptable in games.

    Forget all this nonsense in the job description about winning a tournament. The main issue should be what are you going to do with the midfield? What is the approach? How? Who with? Explain?
     
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  7. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Borussia Dortmund and Juventus, along with Paris St-Germain, are keen on signing 24-year-old Manchester United and England forward Jadon Sancho but cannot meet the Old Trafford club's valuation. (Sky Sports), external

    United want £40m for Sancho. (Mirror), external

    Trent Alexander-Arnold is committed to Liverpool with the Reds hopeful the 25-year-old England right-back will sign a new contract amid interest from Real Madrid. (Sun)

    England full back Kieran Trippier, 33, is attracting interest from two Saudi Arabian clubs and, with one year remaining on his contract with Newcastle United, is set to leave the Tyneside club. (Northern Echo)

    Brentford and England striker Ivan Toney, 28, is prepared to run down his contract if he does not land a big move this summer. (Talksport)
     
  8. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
  9. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    Made his bed
     
  10. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Not really, he’s one of better right backs now and we can see Southgate and his assistant weren’t the greatest coaches

    obviously this would be last chance saloon but he offers a lot, able to play rb, inverted, cb in a 2 or 3 like Walker except less pace but better passing

    James is always hurt and Trent can’t defend
     
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  11. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    I reckon the entire article is just made up.
     
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  12. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    It be mainly as RB. He won’t get club minutes anywhere else any time soon.
     
  13. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
     
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  14. Khadrim

    Khadrim Member

    Jul 30, 2011
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    No we haven't. We have waited for a functioning midfield. It's perfectly possible to play great without being a ********. Messi being the prime example. It's perfectly possible to be to play aggressively without randomly barging into players for no reason.

    Edit stupid american website censoring the c*nt
     
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  15. Khadrim

    Khadrim Member

    Jul 30, 2011
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    I disagree., our inability to retain possession and play out from the back was a big problem in the tournament. If Wharton solved that it would have improved one of the big flaws in the team.

    One the issues we had in this tournament was Southgate not playing players in roles that suit them. Trippier as a LB, Bellingham as a LM.

    I also find the argument he played in zero stakes games as a bit weak. Unless you actually expect him to freeze on the big stage (in which case why bring him), the quality of opposition is a better indicator of ability. Which included games against Manchesters City and Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle and Villa.
     
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  16. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    I've waited for a player who comes up with clutch moments on the biggest stage in tournaments for England my entire life. Players like that have egos, whether they choose to show it or not.
     
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  17. Inter Row Z

    Inter Row Z Member+

    Oldham Athletic
    England
    Mar 26, 2023
    Impressive bit of research there from Chelsea's new manager. We've talked before on here about the possibility of Reece James evolving into a defensive midfielder for Chelsea and England, but who'd have thought that Maresca would already be on to it, and analysing his loan spell at Wigan in 2018-19?
     
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  18. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    It’s all right if the Ego doesn’t affect the dressing room. If some reports are to be believed Bellingham’s ego might be doing that,
     
  19. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    There's absolutely no good evidence of that.
     
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  20. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Not directly but some of the journalists who have said there are tensions caused by various issues are normally reliable.
     
  21. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Reliable in what way? No players have come out with anything have they? I’d rather take their word rather than journalists just looking to cause trouble for clicks to suit their agenda.
     
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  22. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    Messi just hides it better tbh.
     
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  23. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
  24. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Feb 8, 2020
    He's always been a fake hardman.
     
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  25. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Atletico Madrid are "extremely confident" of securing a deal to sign Chelsea and England midfielder Conor Gallagher, 24. (Team Talk)

    Trent Alexander-Arnold, 25, wants to stay with Liverpool despite the English full-back attracting interest from Real Madrid. (Mirror)

    Spain's 33-year-old defender Marcos Alonso, who is a free agent after leaving Barcelona, 24-year-old Englishman Tyrick Mitchell, who plays for Crystal Palace, and Feyenoord's 26-year-old Slovakia defender David Hancko are among potential targets for Manchester United as they look into bringing in a left-back. (Mirror), external

    Kalvin Phillips is wanted on loan by Everton this summer, according to reports. (The Sun)
     

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