England Senior National Team General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'England' started by BarryfromEastenders, Dec 12, 2022.

  1. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    #6351 Fireburn47, Sep 22, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2023
    Because it’s impossible to tell what form Phillips is in when he only gets starts for England or against weak teams in domestic cups. It’s sort of embarrassing having to use a player who might not have a single month this year with triple figures minutes in the league or Europe no matter how good they are and how week the depth is in that position.

    Phillips is helped by coming across likeable and because Man City are successful he is still liked by their fans and England fans (Through I think West Hm fans will be very critical of him because of the widespread feeling among West Ham fans that Ward - Prowse should be back and Phillips and Henderson get targeted more than Gallagher who perhaps is more of direct competitor for a spot.) Maguire likes to wind his critics up sometimes (The cupped ears when he scored in 2021 for example) it also goes into an ever repeating circle.
     
  2. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    Fair enough I'd prefer to play someone whos a natural fit for what Southgate wants in that position, rather than slotting in a RB or our best CB simply because they are playing regularly.
     
  3. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    There’s absolutely no way that any of those players can cover Rice’s role, none of those players are anything close to a 6. There’s no English player as good as Rice at that role but Phillips is the closest.

    What’s the point in shooting ourselves in the foot by using substandard players just to adhere to some unwritten rule of only using players who are in good club form?
     
    roverman repped this.
  4. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    I doubt you'd say that in a Glasgow boozer!
     
  5. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    He also started against Italy.
     
  6. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    I missed out a couple of word there. I meant England and weak club teams.
     
  7. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    I think James played somewhat similar on youth loans didn’t he and I know some Chelsea fans on social media think it might suit him to move position for body saving reasons.
     
  8. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    Reece James has never played as a 6. He played as an 8 at Wigan. The two positions are very different which is why JWP or Hendo can’t do it either. Chelsea fans saying that goes back to what Barry said the other day: people seem to think central midfielders can just play any role in the midfield and it doesn’t matter. You have to have very specific qualities to be an effective 6.
     
  9. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    If you'd prefer to pick James in this role over Philips even though he has basically never played it in his entire career, but because some Chelsea fans on social media think he might be good at it. I can't take you seriously if this is actually a genuine opinion.
     
  10. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Good news - Marc Guehi is back fit and will return for Palace tomorrow. But Dunk is still out for Brighton and Maguire is 50/50 to be named in the match day squad.
     
  11. ht_hu96

    ht_hu96 Member+

    Middlesbrough
    England
    May 23, 2019
    Out of genuine curiosity, how many players do the likes of France, Spain, Germany et al call up who aren’t regular starters and/or don’t get regular football for their clubs? Not asking that in a loaded fashion just wondering.

    As for the above debate, I agree that you can’t just jettison any player who gets dropped from his club side as we simply don’t have the luxury of a top quality, in-form replacement for every position particularly in the 6 role. That said, I do agree with Fireburn that we don’t want the number of players in the squad who are not getting regular minutes to increase much more. Ramsdale having now seemingly lost his spot adds another to the list.
     
  12. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    When France won the World Cup in 2018 Giroud started 6 games for them, a game less than his 7 league starts that season.
     
  13. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    Laporte was regularly starting for Spain while very much on the fringes at City, he still starts now he's in Saudi Arabia.
     
  14. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    Laporte's reputation outstrips his appearance record for City by quite a long way. I mean he had his injuries but in only two of his seasons at City could you have said he was a key player for them.
     
    roverman repped this.
  15. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    Sure but he started less games than Maguire last season (all these players were established regulars at one point otherwise they wouldn't have made it into the national set up) who is partly what this debate is framed round
     
  16. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Not many for France. Third choice goalkeeper Areola at the World Cup was only doing European matches for West Ham last season (It has swapped this season and now he is league only.)

    In terms of their most recent squad
    Maginan, Areola and Samba - All regular starters
    Pavard benched the last two league matches but played the full 90 in the CL.
    Todibo, Disasi, Upamecano, Kounde, Todibo, Saliba, Koante, L Hernandez, T Hernandez all regular starters
    Camavinga tends come off from the bench in the League but he did start the CL.
    Tchouameni, Rabiot, Fofana, Kamara all regular starters.
    Greizmann, Mbappe, Dembele, Thuram, Coman, Giroud all regular starters
    Kolo Muani has just moved but was regular starter before.

    Will do Spain and Germany a bit later.
     
  17. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Spain

    Kepa, Simon are regular starters.
    Raya looks like he will now be a regular starter.
    Azpilicueta, Balde, P Torres, Le Normand, Gaya, Carvajal, Garcia all regular starters
    Laporte a regular starter in Saudi
    Merino, Gavi, Rodri, Baena, Zubimendi are regular starters.
    F Ruiz is not a regular starter but tends to come off the bench.
    Morata, Pino, Williams, Joselu, A Ruiz, Olmo, Asensio all regular starters
    Yamal seems to regularly switch from starting to being a sub.
    F Torres started the most recent league match but otherwise tends to come on as a sub.

    Germany

    ter Stegen, Trapp, Baumann all regular starters
    Rudiger, Thiaw, Tah, Schlotterbeck, Sule, Henrichs, Gosens all regular starters
    Kimmich, Wirtz, Brandt, Hofmann, Gundogan, Can, Groß, Musiala all regular starters
    Havertz has been but might be heading to the bench now.
    F Nmecha comes off the bench most matches.
    Gnaby, Muller, Sane,
    Schade seems to switch from starting to being a sub.
    Fullkrug was staring but now seems to come on from the bench but I think that’s fitness related.

    Germany was strict through under Flick - Werner for example dropped due to poor club form despite last year being very good for Germany under him. And there has been a lot of churn in both Germany and Spain.

    Of course Spalletti has dropped Jorghino because he is not playing at club level despite being important to their squad.
     
  18. JAMC_

    JAMC_ Member

    England
    Jul 4, 2022
    Alphonse Areola went to the World Cup with France despite being the West Ham back up keeper. Albeit he played in their European ties.
     
    roverman and Fireburn47 repped this.
  19. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
  20. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Ramsdale should have learnt from Joe Hart’s lesson and improved his kicking skills
     
  21. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
     
  22. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Joe Cole has warned Southgate he will look very silly if he continues to ignore James Ward - Prowse among widespread disbelief at West Ham that he was left out earlier this month in favour of Kalvin Phillips and Jordan Henderson,
     
  23. Ste walker

    Ste walker Member

    Dec 2, 2016
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    I don’t think Ward Prowse can play that role for England, Phillips has played very well for England and never let us down. Hopefully Phillips gets more game time at City or gets a loan in January. Angel Gomes might be worth looking at .
     
  24. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    Gomes isn't really a like for like replacement for Phillips either, his defensive stats are absolutlely horrific. I don't really see him being picked, England under Southgate have pretty much always picked 2 central midfielders to provide defensive solidarity and it seems unlikely it will change now. Phillips selling point for the national team was defensively he's a monster coupled with decent ability on the ball.

    He doesn't really have an obvious replacement unfortunately, Conor Gallagher is excellent at a lot of off the ball stuff but doesn't have the same positional discipline and his passing is a tier below Phillips. Curtis Jones maybe has a decent chance if he can become a bonafide regular for Liverpool given that pretty much necessitates good defensive awareness in a Klopp midfield.

    Certainly its an issue how little football he plays though. He desperately needs a loan out in January, I suspect he won't be dropped but he'd likely be starting for England regularly if he played at club level and showed some form.
     
  25. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    I’m not sure Phillips will go on loan in January Unless Pep and/or Gareth basically tell him to do so.
     

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