England Senior National Team General Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'England' started by BarryfromEastenders, Dec 12, 2022.

  1. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    How much playing time will he get once TAA is back through. Don’t see him getting back until he is first choice for Liverpool again playing in their biggest matches wirh big names fit and available.
     
  2. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    Watching the Rangers game and wouldn’t be against Jack Butland getting a call up as the 3rd keeper, been very good in this match against Betis and all season.
     
  3. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021


     
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  4. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    I feel that would come after recalling Pope at least once.
     
  5. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    This is what makes me think the people shouting the loudest for JWP to be in the England squad don't really watch him.

    When you're as good at set-pieces as he is your goals + assists stats end up looking really good and you end up on a lot of highlight reels so fans have an inflated opinion of you.

    Ward-Prowse literally just got an assists off a corner tonight and supposedly that's further evidence as to why he should be in the England squad.

    If you delve deeper into the stats JWP has an expected assist rate of 0.5 in the PL this season which puts him in 87th place in the PL, lower than players like Sean Longstaff and even Wan-Bissaka.

    He's also down in 50th for key passes which means he's outperformed by pretty much every other English midfielder other than the majorly defensive ones.

    Tonight's the first time I've ever actually looked at his detailed stats and it supports what I've believed about him for a while: were he not a world-class dead ball artist the calls for him to be in the England squad would not be what they are now.
     
  6. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    #6331 Fireburn47, Sep 22, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2023
    At least he playing at the highest level. Phillips seems a bit too content to sit on the bench and Henderson in a weakened league where the main draw is money, Personally I would say a rule should be a player has a minimum 50% of possible minutes since the last call up while paying in a top 10/15 league in the world or ineligible to be called up. Would encourage players to move clubs to get playing time.
     
  7. Iansutton270390

    Iansutton270390 Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Jan 12, 2019
    The welsh rugby team tried implementing rules like that and they faced an exodus.
    You're almost forcing people on what decisions they make on their living and giving them an ultimatum for playing for England. Believe me, the england team would be the only one to suffer.
     
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  8. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    The Welsh rugby team tried to keep players in the few Welsh teams. It’s a lot different to saying if you happy to be on the bench more than playing you not selected when you could move to another 100+ teams around Europe instead. There are only a few current plausible English senior players who don’t play 50%+ of possible minutes anyway.
     
  9. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
  10. Iansutton270390

    Iansutton270390 Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Jan 12, 2019
    I'm just not on board with forcing players to play a certain amount of minutes before they can get picked for the national team.
    I think that would turn a lot of duals away for a start.
    Also, we've had players in the past who have been amazing for England but hardly played for their clubs.
    If you use mctominay for Scotland as an example, he's been sensational for them and probably the main reason they're gonna qualify for the next euros. All the while, he can't buy a start for united.
     
  11. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    #6336 Fireburn47, Sep 22, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2023
    McTominay is a poor example as it seems he was offered the chance to leave Man United this summer but decided to stay,

    Obviously it has some drawbacks (And exceptions can always apply) but equally it’s just not ideal for keeping duals either to call up barely playing players either - as well as possibly creating a more toxic atmosphere as we can see how the presence of some players at the moment are creating negative press and fan reactions.
     
  12. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    Phillips and Henderson are better than Ward Prowse and have shown that in an England shirt pretty consistently, regardless of what league and how many minutes they are playing, the best players for the system and team should be picked, that idea/rule is in no way workable.
     
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  13. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    #6338 Fireburn47, Sep 22, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2023
    Southgate once said form is one of the most important things in deciding who is called up but Phillips plays so little he can’t show any form. It’s sad but it is damaging the reputation of the team.

    Ramsdale will get dragged into the arguments about Maguire and Phillips being selected when not playing for their clubs now he is second choice at Arsenal.
     
  14. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    Maybe when he took the job he thought form was more important than it is because it’s quite clearly not the most important thing.

    International football is not just a reward or a pat on the back for good club form, the England football team is its own entity with its own demands just like Manchester City is and it recruits players based on attributes, not how well they’re playing.

    Players should get call-ups based on if they demonstrate requisite attributes to play at the level demanded by England, and more often than not that comes hand in hand with good club form. But sometimes, like in the case of Phillips, it doesn’t. Ward-Prowse would in no way do a better job than Phillips and cannot fulfil the role he plays, so what’s the point in bringing him in just because he’s doing better for his club?
     
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  15. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    Southgate has said a lot of things, if the players are of an equal standard and play the same position then form is more important. But it should only be the deciding factor if the players are like for like.
    If Ramsdale is a backup goalkeeper at club level then I'm not sure its a big deal he gets picked for England as that will likely be his role at international level. I think its important the starting national team goalkeeper is a starter at club level, the number 2 and 3 not so much.
     
  16. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    To be fair the backup goalkeeper really should be the second best goalkeeper available not someone who might play once a month. How can Southgate otherwise judge if the goalkeeper is in form.
     
  17. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    I think he is the 2nd best goalkeeper hence why I wouldn't have a problem with him being picked as England number 2 or 3, if there were 2 or 3 other starting goalkeepers of a an equal standard I'd pick them ahead of him, there isn't though.
     
  18. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    I doubt Mount is happy at Man United having to possibly play right wing going forward. That won’t give him much of a chance of getting back into the Southgate’s thinking. Have always felt Man United was a bit of a strange choice to move from Chelsea from.
     
  19. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Because it encourages ambition and shows that resting on your laurels is not desirable quality.
     
  20. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    You still have to play well to get in the England squad in the first place because how else are you going to demonstrate your qualities? The point is that form alone is not enough. You have to also show than you possess the traits and qualities that the role will demand in an England shirt.

    If a player is playing poorly for his club, or not playing at all, then more often than not others will be called in their place providing there are replacements that can fill the role. We've seen big players Sterling, Rashford and Trent all dropped in the last couple of years because there were other quality players that could offer what they do. Phillips is a unique situation because others simply don't offer what he does.
     
  21. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    The things is Phillips is not even a first choice starter for Southgate anymore so his skills are not that essential that someone else in the squad or a new call up can’t cover in the event he is needed. It would also encourage him to move.
     
  22. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    I mean the two best performances since the World Cup (against credible opposition) have both come with Phillips in the starting XI. He's obviously in contention to start a lot of games and even if not, what happens if Declan Rice gets injured or suspended and Phillips isn't in the squad?
     
  23. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    #6348 Fireburn47, Sep 22, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2023
    Then in theory someone else can play that role. I’m sure Henderson and even TAA or JWP could cover it in an emergency and Stones could as well if someone else went to centre back. And there are others who could as well. Reece James if fit. Ben White if brought back.

    The sad fact is that only the fact their England places have not been at risk that have kept Maguire and Phillips at their clubs. I’m sure both would have been more keen to leave if there England places were at risk.
     
  24. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    #6349 Fireburn47, Sep 22, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2023
    Sounds like Stones is going to be out for a while. But Grealish is now back fit and might get minutes this weekend.
     
  25. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    Why would you advocate someone else playing the role when Philips is a better fit for it, especially as moving Stones would significantly weaken CB. Phillips should have probably left City but we don't know the circumstances, Maguire was set to lose out on ~£10m so its pretty obvious why he didn't leave.
     

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