This is full of so much empty air. First, TS was hired by Barber. He is not a "bobby guy" making his life miserable. Tommy Soehn reported to Paul Barber as well as Bobby. Bobby managed a CSL club on a shoestring, found a local owner eventually who would underwrite the losses, and put together a very good team that won championships. He also managed the Mens National Team to TWO FINAL HEXES (which NOBODY has done since). There have been 5 managers since Bobby, and none of them have gone anywhere similar in the World Cup campaign. Is he really so awful at managing? He was in charge of the Caps during the stadium proposal and the MLS application, as well as the development of the youth and women's systems. Now, if you and a lot of others want to think he is a bad person or an asshole, that is your choice. I am sure there is a lot of validity to that belief. But to paint him as a guy who basically knows nothing is absolutely absurd. Put your hatred aside for the man. He may not be the best administrator, but he certainly has a lot of achievements under his watch over the last 25 years. I believe your dislike for him as a man puts you in a position of thinking he has not accomplished anything. Paul Barber was not a good fit here, micro managed people way too much, and did not make a lot of great decisions. To pin this somehow on Bobby is just shilling in my opinion.
I'm not saying Barber was perfect. He likely made his share of mistakes. But power in any organization doesn't lie strictly according to the structure. If it did, the US president would be the most powerful man in the world. As it stands, more often than not, his hands are tied by Congress, the Senate, and/or various interest groups. BL has deep roots in this region and organization. To think he doesn't have real clout outside the formal structure is naive. Given the insular nature of soccer in Canada, it would have been difficult for Barber to break in even with BL's support. The Whitecaps suffered on the field partly because they came in with too much D2 content. They can't afford to keep a D2 mentality in the FO. And Sheik, get your facts staright--Bobby played in the World Cup--Tony Waiters was the coach. And before you go thinking my hatred of Bobby blinds me, you may want to reexamine your seeming dislike of anyone with a decent vocabulary and a haircut before you attack Barber. Just sayin.
to say that TS was tied with BL against PB is absolutely wrong -- PB hired and was totally loyal-- and blind to results-- to TS-- when the season ended with a deep, moanful sigh of relief, PB gave his support to TS-- there is no question about that how much PB's loyalty to TS forced him, pushed him to resign, we may never know-- but for whatever reason, PB and TS were closely hipped... and led to some of the problems with the club in 2011-- PB should have acted smarter and quicker in some critical decisions-- he seemed to have a deaf ear to what fans were saying -- a close-eared and close-minded CEO are dangerous and create instability and disunity- exactly what we saw for 2011 further, being CEO gave PB the right to hire/fire whomever he wanted- as long as the owners rubber-stamped the decision-- i think laying all the blame on BL is truly misguided-- there is a lot more to this story than BL being arrogant and a power-monger and if BL were so soccer-illiterate, then how did so many years of the Caps success over 15 years under his watch really happen? cant be just luck! and yes, i have heard from soccer-insiders with the national team who have had past dealings with BL, often with non-glowing reports-- but i have learned that a lot of rumors and mean-spirited gossip are often done by people who resent another's success and really are not to be trusted also if you have been burned by gossip and rumors-- as i have-- then you might understand that the stuff about BL does not mean a 'tinker's damn'-- all that matters is whether the teams under his watch were successful...and they WERE! all i want is a more competitive, spirited team in 2012- and i think that we are headed in that direction; i personally shared with some friends in last February that when i saw the roster for the 2011 Caps team, it was going to be a longggggg season... and it was- and even worse than i could imagine 2012 brings new hope... i truly believe there is going to be a dramatic improvement, but it will take 3-4 months for the team to jell
We'll have to agree to disagree about BL's soccer knowledge. He's a high-profile member of Canada's soccer fraternity whose narrow-mindedness and general lack of knowledge has been the main reason that a country of 30+ million can't qualify for the World Cup, and get beaten or stymied by the likes of Costa Rica and Jamaica on a regular basis. That is no record to be proud of. The mentality that Bobby and others have is good enough to win in the lower divisions of North American soccer, but the big leagues, whether MLS or anywhere else in the world expose him and the rest for what they are--limited. As for the Whitecaps' success in the past, there are other people in the organization besides BL, people like Thomas Niendorf, for instance, now Grootsscholten and hopefully Rennie, who did and contribute the ideas and actual grunt work in orchestrating Whitecaps success than the likes of BL. Credit attributed to someone at the top for what others in the organization have put together is not an indication of actual skill or knowledge. As I said before, I hope I'm wrong. But we'll see how comfortable TS gets over the next season. If he stays, it'll be hard to make the argument that he was Barber's choice and not BL's. BL now has the ability to get rid of someone in TS who clearly demonstrated his incompetence last year. Let's see if BL makes use of the opportunity. If he does, I'll happily eat crow, because I too am hoping that next season will be better. And I believe it will if Rennie is given free rein to do his job. But if TS is still here throughout the 2012 season, I can't but think I've been right about BL and his influence.
I'm going to step in as a moderator and ask everyone to move on from the Barber versus Lenarduzzi angle (including the "whose bitch is Soehn" sub-plot). The bottom line is that none of us know certainly how this all works, and all this is doing is fueling speculation and bringing out the darker side of this forum. May the force be with you. (And I'll lightsaber all your asses (including my own) if these topics are touched on again without ACTUAL PROOF FROM REPUTABLE SOURCES.) And, yes, I am having way too much fun finding emoticons to fit my StarWars analogy.
You should allow people to speak freely as they chose. Implying thread locking or banning just makes it look like this is your own personal playground and you don't want people who think differently than you. I am just offering another view.
Sheik, the purpose of moderators is, in fact, to moderate. (From dictionary.com) mod·er·ate/ˈmäd(ə)rət/ Verb: Make or become less extreme, intense, rigorous, or violent. To that end, we as moderators - on rare occasions - step in when discussions are spiraling downward to ensure that discussion is as healthy and profitable as possible. The current discussion is circular, not sourced and is increasing in its vitriol (i.e. becoming attack-like). This is a board with rules and guidelines, so you are not, in fact, free to say anything you like. But you can say almost anything you like. The comments I occasionally I make as moderator are only types of comments seen on MLS boards throughout BigSoccer (I know because I read through a lot of different forums, and model my behavior as a moderator on the behavior of others who have been doing it longer than me. If you have a problem with me as a moderator, feel free to report me. I stand by my conduct. (Also: using StarWars smileys signifies to the board that I am trying to make a fair point while doing so in a jocular manner.) As I said before: Moving on...
Well, when a guy says that: a) TS is BL's guy , which is a bold lie. Barber hired him b) Paul did not have a poor performance, but left due to Bobby, that is absolute bullshit I have to call him out!
while i agree with the Sheik about PB, TS, and BL, i also agree with the moderator that enough has been said-- we will learn soon enough about TS, jarju, etc-- we may never know the whole truth about PB's leaving, but i guestimate you that there is a whole lot more to this story and it doesn't all have to do with BL the Force recognizes all people regardless of their ear shape and alien skin color- -- lets focus on other more + things with the Caps-- i look forward to a very significant MF signing, more depth and experience and more competition for starting places
By all means, call him out. Just try to avoid referring to other people's posts as "crap", "naive", "full of empty air." Disagree in a respectful manner and no one will have any issues with you, I'm sure. Having said that, the things you are saying are just as unsubstantiated as anything offered up here. Several people here think that PB's departure may have something to do with BL's dinkishness. You disagree. But BOTH positions are unsubstantiated, which makes you guilty of the same things you charge everyone else with. For the record, I have no problems with speculating - most of us do a fair bit of it on here so that we have something to talk about! - but let's just do it in a respectful manner. Most of us regulars have been around a while and have shown that we are all deserving of respect from one another (i.e. there aren't any trolls here). I am curious to see how PB's departure affects the club. I don't think we will see a falling off of acquisitions - Rennie has an eye for talent; the FO is willing to pay up; Vancouver is a desirable place to live - and most of the other big things (sponsorships, etc.) are locked in for a few years. I doubt we will see much effect for quite some time.
If you want to hide different opinions then that is just wrong. People need to discuss and debate without you calling it a spat. Back on topic Paul Barber needed to go. Now the organization can breathe and have fun again. he micro managed the office to death and sucked the life out of the club from top to bottom. Oh, you say this is unsubstantiated? Talk to some employees or ex employees... you will have your answers.
I know nothing of the internal politics of the whitecaps but I guess what is done is done. Im really hoping that next year, the team and organisation can move forward in a positive manner.
Along the lines of the effect Barber's departure may/may not have on the club, here's an interesting article I came across, that gives me some hope: http://www.eightysixforever.com/2011/12/11/2628009/crisis-what-crisis One of the most interesting things for me about Barber's departure is the fact that he's actually staying till February. I wonder if in that time any of the background for his resignation comes to light. The other thing I'm watching closely is the situation with Soehn. His ultimate fate will, I think, say a lot about the current (non-Barber) Whitecaps FO regime.
If the organization continues to improve,and I am confident it will, then we will have definite proof that Barber was the problem at the top. Let's see how 2012 shapes up and then we can judge if losing Barber was correct (and I do believe it was).
well said-- if the caps do better in 2012, every1 will be happy and forget all this mess and 2011 season
Agreed. I'm very much looking forward to how Rennie brings the pieces together on the field next year. A few veteran players, like Hassli and Camilo, as well as the younger players like Salgado, and some areas like set pieces will all hopefully benefit from some talented and coaching.
Sheik, why is it that when you say "talk to some employees", that is sufficient evidence, but when I say that about BL, you say it's not enough proof? I think in both cases it is not proof but a general indication, equally valid by the anti-BL and anti-PB parties: indications, but not proof.
When someone who was first hand witness to the internal office structure tells you that PB was asked to leave by ownership, that is proof.
I have been witness to conversations from internal people who know the truth. I can tell you; ownership quietly asked Barber to leave, and agreed to give him a nice polite sendoff so his career would not be damaged and there was no mud sligning. I can not believe so many of you Big Soccer types are defending Barber and trying to blame someone else. The guy ran an organization that was a clown show; accept it.
I have a hard time that someone with his background is a "clown show" which is why I have a very difficult time believing you without any sources to back you up. You are very quick to insult, where no one else (publicly) has which greatly affects your credibility. Simply saying you have heard conversations from internal people does not really give any substance to your claim. You may be right, Barber may have been the problem, I have no idea. I would assume that someone of his stature would not be happy with last seasons results, and would be first up for wanting to better them, unless he too was jaded with the inner workings of the club, and was not being supported as he was. I have a hard time believing that leaving the club as he has will not impact his future. There will always be questions surrounding his quick departure from Vancouver, and his failure to win here. Accusing others of speculating, while making just as if not more confrontational statements supported by unknown internal sources is reminiscent of a Shiek who is no longer posting on this forum.
Listen The organization was a mess while Barber was CEO. That is an observed fact and you don't need any "insider information" to see that. If the man at the top is not to blame for the toilet we had, then what is the point of having a CEO if he is not responsible for the business? I can not believe intelligent people can see a failed business; and not hold the man running that business accountable.
Whatever your feelings are for the Sheik, he is right. Substantiated or not. As I said before, PB was the man in charge - the buck stops there. I don't care if BL is an ass, he wasn't running the show.
That is my whole point. These guys on big soccer think the man who WAS IN CHARGE, is somehow not responsible for the disaster the organization became. This makes no sense other than some personal agenda to blame Bobby for things he didn't do. IF the organization is shit a year from now, then I will be happy to blame Bobby too. But, Barber was the CEO and is the man responsible. If you do not want to hold a CEO accountable for the business HE IS RUNNING, then why bother even having one.